[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Muzjhath]

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As long as you trade with the EU the EU imposes those rules on you.
Before you had a say on them.
Now you in practice do not.

Neither do you have much of a say on most of the trade-deals you've sigend since Brexit. As you've mostly just been grandfathered into EU trade deals getting left-overs.

But yes. Sure.

All hail freedom from the rest of Europe dictating terms to England.

[tehealadin]

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I won't excuse you, your just denying numbers because they don't back your argument. The Australian deal was extremely minor in value.

How will we benefit from this trans pacific trade deal? Explain how we won't be shafted, please.

[Mayhem]

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You already set your own corporate tax rates, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Forogil]

Oh yeah, tyvm for reminding me. Total votes cast = 37786. Total votes to Rejoin EU = 75.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_B...en_by-election

And by the same lack of logic brexit lost in December 2019, since the brexit party failed to win any seats in the general election in the uk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit...election,_2019

[Slant]

@Rozz

Honestly, if you're going to manipulate posts, at least try to make sense. I get it, you want to avoid removing our posts completely, because we complained the last time, but without context they're completely useless and confusing. Might as well stick to your guns and remove the entire post and the context. And I removed the pinging poster ID in the response, so he shouldn't be pinged by it to try and avoid this anyway.

Some clarification on what you're trying to achieve might be in order, cos what you're doing now is half-baked nonsense.

Btw, removing posts is fine if you leave some sort of notice somewhere. It's not that you remove posts, that's fine. It's that you do it without letting us know and us wondering if we're imagining having posted and are going crazy or if someone just removed them...

[dribbles]

And by the same lack of logic brexit lost in December 2019, since the brexit party failed to win any seats in the general election in the uk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit...election,_2019

It was the referendum majority in 2016 that granted democratic legitimacy to Brexit. The 2019 general election was ancillary to that, and the Brexit matter was already resolved by then.

[Huehuecoyotl]

It was the referendum majority in 2016 that granted democratic legitimacy to Brexit. The 2019 general election was ancillary to that, and the Brexit matter was already resolved by then.

Minority. You've already established from your previous post that you believe someone not voting for counts as a vote against. So Brexit got 37% of the eligible voters, so they were a minority.

Honestly, you really should try and keep up with what you believe in. I know it changes a lot, but you'd think you'd make some kind of an effort to keep your own thoughts straight.

Democratic legitimacy. Just fucking lol.

[Dhrizzle]

It was the referendum majority in 2016 that granted democratic legitimacy to Brexit. The 2019 general election was ancillary to that, and the Brexit matter was already resolved by then.

The 2016 referendum didn't have any democratic legitimacy, if it had been legally binding the result would have been declared void due to the illegal actions of the Leave campaign.

[Kallisto]

2016 vote was non legally binding which would have been thrown out due to cheating actions of the vote leave groups. The non legally binding nature of it was why the British courts simply put couldn't touch it.

The 2019 General election showed majority support for parties in which wanted a choice for remaining. The leave parties received around 45% of the vote. Remain/second vote parties 55%. Anyone that cares about democratic legitimacy would look at that and go "Well the majority voted against what's happening so it shouldn't be happening."

[Forogil]

It was the referendum majority in 2016 that granted democratic legitimacy to Brexit.

You mean the guise of democratic legitimacy.

However, my point is that if you use parties losing in general elections as an indication of some broader political movement, then brexit lost in 2019, since the brexit party lost all the elections they appeared in. That's the kind of lack of logic you used yourself, so sorry for telling you that brexit lost in 2019.

[dribbles]

2016 vote was non legally binding which would have been thrown out due to cheating actions of the vote leave groups. The non legally binding nature of it was why the British courts simply put couldn't touch it.

The 2019 General election showed majority support for parties in which wanted a choice for remaining. The leave parties received around 45% of the vote. Remain/second vote parties 55%. Anyone that cares about democratic legitimacy would look at that and go "Well the majority voted against what's happening so it shouldn't be happening."

What's done is done eurochums, you either accept where we are or challenge it democratically just as the Brexit party with people like me did. Where are you now in that process? Let's see using Batley and Spen as the bellweather for how the nation feels.

In the 2015 General Election in that constituency, UKIP which was to become the Brexit party polled around 1 in 5 voters. In 2021 Rejoin EU have polled 1 in 500 voters. I would say you need, by 100 times, to increase Rejoin EU's vote share enough to pressure the government of the day to hold a second referendum. Some ways to go don't you think?

If another in/out referendum is called and if you win it, then and only then can the UK instruct and inform the EU that we are rejoining.

UK Rejoinerism faces a lot of ifs and buts and a mountain to climb if you ask me. From the top of the democratic tree where I sit you look a long way down. But good luck in that climb to get me, the only way is up for you!

[Forogil]

Been a long while since this was posted. Its seen a few updates...

Interesting to note that a few of 'considerable upsides' (14 listed, compared 202 downsides) are actually considerable upsides, but not the uk.

Like EU gaining popular in the EU member states, and Gibraltar likely joining Schengen; and BVI, Guernsey and Jersey joining EU tax havens blacklist.

[Mayhem]

Been a long while since this was posted. Its seen a few updates...

This will be dismissed as project fear, don't worry. Thanks though, it is an eye opener.

[Mayhem]

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You wanted downsides to brexit, there's a sourced list of 200+ downsides compared to 14 upsides (some of them not for the UK though), better not click it, reality might hit you hard.

[Mayhem]

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billions in revenue lost = insignificant downside

you're funny

[Huehuecoyotl]

Here's an appropriate one for this time of year: firm making tennis gear relocates due to Brexit red-tape and difficulty sourcing workers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...irm-to-romania

There's another "insignificant downside" for our burner to ignore. I'm picturing them as a gammon faced man in a stained England shirt, sat at a table drinking tea while the room burns around him. "Brexit is fine", he thinks to himself.

[dribbles]

Been a long while since this was posted. Its seen a few updates...

Good effort but could do better. I just checked the Brexit - Rejoin swingometer and that post on its own was responsible for a 0.001% swing in favour of Brexit by the UK population this morning.

I'm sure there's more negatitivity like it you can post about Brexit. Keep up the good work, I'm lovin it!

[Mayhem]

No one, no one apart from you is talking about the UK rejoining the EU. You guys are just talking about the benefits of Brexit, without being able to present any, that's why everyone else is bringing in examples for the downsides of Brexit.

It's not hard to understand, or at least so I thought.

[dribbles]

No one, no one apart from you is talking about the UK rejoining the EU. You guys are just talking about the benefits of Brexit, without being able to present any, that's why everyone else is bringing in examples for the downsides of Brexit.

It's not hard to understand, or at least so I thought.

And yet with every downside posted, support for Brexit in the UK grows and grows. So thanks, I love you eurochums!

[Mayhem]

And yet with every downside posted, support for Brexit in the UK grows and grows. So thanks, I love you eurochums!

I wasn't aware that this forum is read by so many people in the UK.

Hi, everyone!

Oh and, you're welcome.