View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #28221
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    This sounds like one of Dribble's bad ideas... one of you must have spread this for fun. Own up... :P
    I was more interested to note that it was described as 'load of shite' and not 'load of shit' (as it obviously is; the only option would be that EU introduced additional checks between N. Ireland and the EU).

    Seems that the -e is more Irish/Scottish English, and we might see a shift towards that in the EU.

  2. #28222
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I was more interested to note that it was described as 'load of shite' and not 'load of shit' (as it obviously is; the only option would be that EU introduced additional checks between N. Ireland and the EU).

    Seems that the -e is more Irish/Scottish English, and we might see a shift towards that in the EU.
    I wouldn't be surprised if that had been an Irish delegate. They are well aware of British intentions to effectively split Ireland from the EU. And they're equally aware that the EU will follow whatever Ireland wants in that question. We got their backs. What they say goes.
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  3. #28223
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if that had been an Irish delegate. They are well aware of British intentions to effectively split Ireland from the EU. And they're equally aware that the EU will follow whatever Ireland wants in that question. We got their backs. What they say goes.
    Its to do with trying to avoid trouble in NI flaring up again and putting the good Friday agreement at risk, it's not to segregate Ireland from the EU or the UK to score points against the EU. This effects Ireland as a whole not just NI, My mother was born in the south and came to the UK when she was 18 to train as a nurse, so I have quite a large extended family over there and we go over every 2-3 years.

    A lot of the good Friday agreement is hinged on the fact that while NI still wasn't part of Ireland, both were part of a greater body inside the EU and the freedom of trade and movement that it allowed was enough for all parties to agree to and stop the violence. I have no idea how to resolve it amicably, but hope they find a way.
    The UK government have been attempting to kick it down the road as long as they can, but it is another aspect of Brexit that the dumb fucks! (including those who post here) failed to take into account.

  4. #28224
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    Its to do with trying to avoid trouble in NI flaring up again and putting the good Friday agreement at risk, it's not to segregate Ireland from the EU or the UK to score points against the EU. This effects Ireland as a whole not just NI, My mother was born in the south and came to the UK when she was 18 to train as a nurse, so I have quite a large extended family over there and we go over every 2-3 years.

    A lot of the good Friday agreement is hinged on the fact that while NI still wasn't part of Ireland, both were part of a greater body inside the EU and the freedom of trade and movement that it allowed was enough for all parties to agree to and stop the violence. I have no idea how to resolve it amicably, but hope they find a way.
    The UK government have been attempting to kick it down the road as long as they can, but it is another aspect of Brexit that the dumb fucks! (including those who post here) failed to take into account.
    The UK absolutely would love for Ireland to be seggregated from the EU. That would immediately solve their gordic knot. The whole paradox about closing borders while keeping borders open would disappear overnight. At the low, low cost of some Irishmen's lives... as far as the UK goes, that would absolutely be a steal.
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  5. #28225
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The UK absolutely would love for Ireland to be seggregated from the EU. That would immediately solve their gordic knot. The whole paradox about closing borders while keeping borders open would disappear overnight. At the low, low cost of some Irishmen's lives... as far as the UK goes, that would absolutely be a steal.
    Stop nation bashing. As somebody with duel nationality of both counties involved I find it offensive and doesn't help the argument about a complex issue.

  6. #28226
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    Stop nation bashing. As somebody with duel nationality of both counties involved I find it offensive and doesn't help the argument about a complex issue.
    That aint as much as nation bashing as a real geopolitics.

  7. #28227
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    The EU is lying! Obviously it has been "privately discussed" (among Tories in London).
    I mean this was the brexiteers plan post vote. That Ireland would somehow forget 1000 years of history on the islands and jump willingly out with the nation that has basically been their abuser for the longest time.

    English exceptionalism at its finest (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland wouldn't have this view).

    In fact there are many people that I have dealt with in the last few years that still think reunification of Ireland will happen when the republic decides to rejoin the UK. That is the delusion that people have over here.

  8. #28228
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    Stop nation bashing. As somebody with duel nationality of both counties involved I find it offensive and doesn't help the argument about a complex issue.
    I mean, it was suggested before. It's not nation bashing, maybe you should inform yourself about your country's politics a little better. Also, I'm beginning to doubt your identity and your background story. Someone from Irish and British background should really know this. It's not a big state secret.
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  9. #28229
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I mean this was the brexiteers plan post vote. That Ireland would somehow forget 1000 years of history on the islands and jump willingly out with the nation that has basically been their abuser for the longest time.

    English exceptionalism at its finest (Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland wouldn't have this view).

    In fact there are many people that I have dealt with in the last few years that still think reunification of Ireland will happen when the republic decides to rejoin the UK. That is the delusion that people have over here.
    I think Boris's plan was to simply ignore the WA and not put up a border. Turns out the entire international community is (unsurprisingly) not ok with that considering all international treaties rely on the simple understanding that both sides will honour it.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #28230
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I think Boris's plan was to simply ignore the WA and not put up a border. Turns out the entire international community is (unsurprisingly) not ok with that considering all international treaties rely on the simple understanding that both sides will honour it.
    There's also this silly little annoyance that borders, unregulated, are by default closed and separate countries from each other. I know, it's a big nuisance and really who wants that, but apparently that's what it is... Poor Brexiteers, gotten so used to having their borders open, they totally forgot that a normal, unregulated border actually means the end of the line. Do not cross over. Beyond is "territory you are not allowed in". Your presence on the other side already makes you a criminal.
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  11. #28231
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I mean, it was suggested before. It's not nation bashing, maybe you should inform yourself about your country's politics a little better. Also, I'm beginning to doubt your identity and your background story. Someone from Irish and British background should really know this. It's not a big state secret.
    You can disbelieve my background if you want, I have been visiting Ireland since I was 2 or 3, I got a Irish passport in 2017 because of Brexit.

    Would I like to see a united Ireland? Yes
    Do I think it will happen in my lifetime? No
    Do I think the unionists are good guys? No
    Do I think the IRA are good guys? No
    Do I think a lot of innocents are hurt by a unstable Ireland? Yes
    Do I think it would end up in a lot of bloody unrest or even civil war if the UK pulled out of NI now? Yes
    Do I think the good Friday agreement was a good thing? Yes
    Do I think it need protecting at all cost? Yes

    I could tell you stories about how my great grandmothers brother was beaten to death by the black and tan's, or how a distant relative was picked up off the street in the early 70's, just over the border in NI (which he crossed daily for work). They thought he was a IRA member and "interned" for 2 weeks, he was beaten and interrogated daily, it affected him really badly and he turned to drink and it killed him a few years later: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...-why-1.3981598
    But what would be the point?

    Stop with the black and white thinking, its not helpful when dealing with complex issues that are steeped in religious division and generational resentment's. All I care about is the here and now and going forward, I don't want to the troubles to start again is that so difficult to understand?

    The blame game you insist in playing helps nobody.

  12. #28232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The UK absolutely would love for Ireland to be seggregated from the EU.
    Any evidence for this?

    I mean I can see hardcore Tories like JRM and possibly BoJo liking that idea because morons but I doubt it has any real backing.

    At the end of the day this paradox doesn't have any easy outs for anyone...

    From the EU perspective they really should have made the UK and RoI sign an agreement when they co-joined so that if either left it would autokick the other, that would have avoided this totally foreseeable problem but I guess they envisioned nobody would ever be dumb enough to leave lol.

  13. #28233
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Any evidence for this?

    I mean I can see hardcore Tories like JRM and possibly BoJo liking that idea because morons but I doubt it has any real backing.

    At the end of the day this paradox doesn't have any easy outs for anyone...

    From the EU perspective they really should have made the UK and RoI sign an agreement when they co-joined so that if either left it would autokick the other, that would have avoided this totally foreseeable problem but I guess they envisioned nobody would ever be dumb enough to leave lol.
    Apart from the implied consequences of "We'll keep the border open!?"

    Would this be enough? https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-irish-border

    I'm sure I can dig up more, including quotes, but I don't feel like investing a lot of time into an idea that was resoundingly rejected by the EU and Ireland. https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/...brexit-border/

    Edit: It's hard to get a verbose quote, but if you think about it... if the UK keeps the border open, there's only two choices, either RoI "provokes the Troubles" by closing the border, or RoI moves the border to the English channel. Either one are unacceptable, but letting the Troubles flare up is probably the least damaging to RoI and the EU as a whole long term. But the implicaton in England is very much "We want to keep the border open, please also avoid angering the IRA (by keeping your border open/moving the border to the English channel).
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-06-11 at 09:31 PM.
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  14. #28234
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    it would autokick the other
    this is a bad opinion.

  15. #28235
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Any evidence for this?

    I mean I can see hardcore Tories like JRM and possibly BoJo liking that idea because morons but I doubt it has any real backing.

    At the end of the day this paradox doesn't have any easy outs for anyone...

    From the EU perspective they really should have made the UK and RoI sign an agreement when they co-joined so that if either left it would autokick the other, that would have avoided this totally foreseeable problem but I guess they envisioned nobody would ever be dumb enough to leave lol.
    The UK leaving the EU wouldn't even be an big issue for RoI if not for also leaving the single market.

    I think its safe to say no one really expected it to happen, not even the leave campaign lol.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #28236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Apart from the implied consequences of "We'll keep the border open!?"
    As you know I didn't vote for Brexit and am not a fan, but that isn't really attempting to segregate the RoI from the EU, just common sense (from the UK govs perspective not from the perspective of a sane observer lol) and living up to historical agreements.

    Obviously the UK gov just sitting back and refusing to do anything about the RoI/NI border issue is buffoonery of the first degree and a headache for the EU but there isn't much else they can do as closing the border without any imminent military danger (historically Nazi or IRA) is a violation of the CTA.

    Come to think of it, even if they did close the RoI/NI border people could still travel freely between RoI/UK simply by taking a ferry or going via IoM, so that wouldn't even solve the problem.

    Brexshit is truly the gift that keeps on giving >.>

  17. #28237
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    As you know I didn't vote for Brexit and am not a fan, but that isn't really attempting to segregate the RoI from the EU, just common sense (from the UK govs perspective not from the perspective of a sane observer lol) and living up to historical agreements.

    Obviously the UK gov just sitting back and refusing to do anything about the RoI/NI border issue is buffoonery of the first degree and a headache for the EU but there isn't much else they can do as closing the border without any imminent military danger (historically Nazi or IRA) is a violation of the CTA.

    Come to think of it, even if they did close the RoI/NI border people could still travel freely between RoI/UK simply by taking a ferry or going via IoM, so that wouldn't even solve the problem.

    Brexshit is truly the gift that keeps on giving >.>
    I mean, it had to be rejected. So someone must have said it. And I get that it's a convenient way to solve the problem for the UK. The only way for them to solve it tbh.
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  18. #28238
    Good news for our Brexiteer friends!

    https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-a...it-trade-deal/

    British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his Australian counterpart Scott Morrison on Monday evening agreed the broad terms of a free-trade deal.

    Johnson and Morrison, who reached the in-principle agreement over dinner on Monday, are set to formally announce the deal Tuesday morning. It is the first such pact the U.K. has negotiated from scratch since it left the European Union.
    Well done, your dream came true!

    Oh wait, how much is it boosting the UK's GDP? Glad you asked...

    The deal, which is forecasted to boost U.K. GDP by a modest 0.02 percent over 15 years, has been a subject of concern for the agricultural sector, with British farmers warning that too much liberalization could set a dangerous precedent that would harm their industry.
    That's... about as much as the EU Australian trade agreement is projected to add to the EU's GDP (0.03 until 2030 for the curious). Totally worth the 16 billion loss in trade with the EU, man.
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-06-15 at 10:30 AM.
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  19. #28239
    0.02% growth over 15 years and the farmers are concerned that it will damage their business. Which in balance would likely lower GDP growth and national self-reliance. The child (Australia) basically outplayed the parent (Britain) in this deal.

  20. #28240
    Another triumph for Brexit, as we stop more of our wonderful home grown products from being stolen by the EU:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...uarter-of-2021

    Wait, this is what the Brexiteers wanted, isn't it? Stopping all our stuff from heading over to Europe? Isn't it?

    Still waiting for the long list of benefits to be provided by dribbles or one of his acolytes. I'm sure it's coming any day. In the meantime the list of damage is growing daily. And I haven't even mentioned the shitstorm brewing around Ireland.

    It's almost as if the "brains" behind Brexit had no fucking clue what they were doing. And the people that voted for it had no fucking clue what they were voting for. If only we'd warned them, eh? Still, all that sovereignty is great. I don't know how we managed before we got that back.
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