View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #28681
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I mean, it was suggested before. It's not nation bashing, maybe you should inform yourself about your country's politics a little better. Also, I'm beginning to doubt your identity and your background story. Someone from Irish and British background should really know this. It's not a big state secret.
    You can disbelieve my background if you want, I have been visiting Ireland since I was 2 or 3, I got a Irish passport in 2017 because of Brexit.

    Would I like to see a united Ireland? Yes
    Do I think it will happen in my lifetime? No
    Do I think the unionists are good guys? No
    Do I think the IRA are good guys? No
    Do I think a lot of innocents are hurt by a unstable Ireland? Yes
    Do I think it would end up in a lot of bloody unrest or even civil war if the UK pulled out of NI now? Yes
    Do I think the good Friday agreement was a good thing? Yes
    Do I think it need protecting at all cost? Yes

    I could tell you stories about how my great grandmothers brother was beaten to death by the black and tan's, or how a distant relative was picked up off the street in the early 70's, just over the border in NI (which he crossed daily for work). They thought he was a IRA member and "interned" for 2 weeks, he was beaten and interrogated daily, it affected him really badly and he turned to drink and it killed him a few years later: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...-why-1.3981598
    But what would be the point?

    Stop with the black and white thinking, its not helpful when dealing with complex issues that are steeped in religious division and generational resentment's. All I care about is the here and now and going forward, I don't want to the troubles to start again is that so difficult to understand?

    The blame game you insist in playing helps nobody.

  2. #28682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The UK absolutely would love for Ireland to be seggregated from the EU.
    Any evidence for this?

    I mean I can see hardcore Tories like JRM and possibly BoJo liking that idea because morons but I doubt it has any real backing.

    At the end of the day this paradox doesn't have any easy outs for anyone...

    From the EU perspective they really should have made the UK and RoI sign an agreement when they co-joined so that if either left it would autokick the other, that would have avoided this totally foreseeable problem but I guess they envisioned nobody would ever be dumb enough to leave lol.

  3. #28683
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Any evidence for this?

    I mean I can see hardcore Tories like JRM and possibly BoJo liking that idea because morons but I doubt it has any real backing.

    At the end of the day this paradox doesn't have any easy outs for anyone...

    From the EU perspective they really should have made the UK and RoI sign an agreement when they co-joined so that if either left it would autokick the other, that would have avoided this totally foreseeable problem but I guess they envisioned nobody would ever be dumb enough to leave lol.
    Apart from the implied consequences of "We'll keep the border open!?"

    Would this be enough? https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-irish-border

    I'm sure I can dig up more, including quotes, but I don't feel like investing a lot of time into an idea that was resoundingly rejected by the EU and Ireland. https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/...brexit-border/

    Edit: It's hard to get a verbose quote, but if you think about it... if the UK keeps the border open, there's only two choices, either RoI "provokes the Troubles" by closing the border, or RoI moves the border to the English channel. Either one are unacceptable, but letting the Troubles flare up is probably the least damaging to RoI and the EU as a whole long term. But the implicaton in England is very much "We want to keep the border open, please also avoid angering the IRA (by keeping your border open/moving the border to the English channel).
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-06-11 at 09:31 PM.
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  4. #28684
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    it would autokick the other
    this is a bad opinion.

  5. #28685
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Any evidence for this?

    I mean I can see hardcore Tories like JRM and possibly BoJo liking that idea because morons but I doubt it has any real backing.

    At the end of the day this paradox doesn't have any easy outs for anyone...

    From the EU perspective they really should have made the UK and RoI sign an agreement when they co-joined so that if either left it would autokick the other, that would have avoided this totally foreseeable problem but I guess they envisioned nobody would ever be dumb enough to leave lol.
    The UK leaving the EU wouldn't even be an big issue for RoI if not for also leaving the single market.

    I think its safe to say no one really expected it to happen, not even the leave campaign lol.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #28686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Apart from the implied consequences of "We'll keep the border open!?"
    As you know I didn't vote for Brexit and am not a fan, but that isn't really attempting to segregate the RoI from the EU, just common sense (from the UK govs perspective not from the perspective of a sane observer lol) and living up to historical agreements.

    Obviously the UK gov just sitting back and refusing to do anything about the RoI/NI border issue is buffoonery of the first degree and a headache for the EU but there isn't much else they can do as closing the border without any imminent military danger (historically Nazi or IRA) is a violation of the CTA.

    Come to think of it, even if they did close the RoI/NI border people could still travel freely between RoI/UK simply by taking a ferry or going via IoM, so that wouldn't even solve the problem.

    Brexshit is truly the gift that keeps on giving >.>

  7. #28687
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    As you know I didn't vote for Brexit and am not a fan, but that isn't really attempting to segregate the RoI from the EU, just common sense (from the UK govs perspective not from the perspective of a sane observer lol) and living up to historical agreements.

    Obviously the UK gov just sitting back and refusing to do anything about the RoI/NI border issue is buffoonery of the first degree and a headache for the EU but there isn't much else they can do as closing the border without any imminent military danger (historically Nazi or IRA) is a violation of the CTA.

    Come to think of it, even if they did close the RoI/NI border people could still travel freely between RoI/UK simply by taking a ferry or going via IoM, so that wouldn't even solve the problem.

    Brexshit is truly the gift that keeps on giving >.>
    I mean, it had to be rejected. So someone must have said it. And I get that it's a convenient way to solve the problem for the UK. The only way for them to solve it tbh.
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  8. #28688
    Good news for our Brexiteer friends!

    https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-a...it-trade-deal/

    British Prime Minister Boris Johnson and his Australian counterpart Scott Morrison on Monday evening agreed the broad terms of a free-trade deal.

    Johnson and Morrison, who reached the in-principle agreement over dinner on Monday, are set to formally announce the deal Tuesday morning. It is the first such pact the U.K. has negotiated from scratch since it left the European Union.
    Well done, your dream came true!

    Oh wait, how much is it boosting the UK's GDP? Glad you asked...

    The deal, which is forecasted to boost U.K. GDP by a modest 0.02 percent over 15 years, has been a subject of concern for the agricultural sector, with British farmers warning that too much liberalization could set a dangerous precedent that would harm their industry.
    That's... about as much as the EU Australian trade agreement is projected to add to the EU's GDP (0.03 until 2030 for the curious). Totally worth the 16 billion loss in trade with the EU, man.
    Last edited by Slant; 2021-06-15 at 10:30 AM.
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  9. #28689
    0.02% growth over 15 years and the farmers are concerned that it will damage their business. Which in balance would likely lower GDP growth and national self-reliance. The child (Australia) basically outplayed the parent (Britain) in this deal.

  10. #28690
    Another triumph for Brexit, as we stop more of our wonderful home grown products from being stolen by the EU:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...uarter-of-2021

    Wait, this is what the Brexiteers wanted, isn't it? Stopping all our stuff from heading over to Europe? Isn't it?

    Still waiting for the long list of benefits to be provided by dribbles or one of his acolytes. I'm sure it's coming any day. In the meantime the list of damage is growing daily. And I haven't even mentioned the shitstorm brewing around Ireland.

    It's almost as if the "brains" behind Brexit had no fucking clue what they were doing. And the people that voted for it had no fucking clue what they were voting for. If only we'd warned them, eh? Still, all that sovereignty is great. I don't know how we managed before we got that back.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
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    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  11. #28691
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Good news for our Brexiteer friends!

    https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-a...it-trade-deal/



    Well done, your dream came true!

    Oh wait, how much is it boosting the UK's GDP? Glad you asked...



    That's... about as much as the EU Australian trade agreement is projected to add to the EU's GDP (0.03 until 2030 for the curious). Totally worth the 16 billion loss in trade with the EU, man.
    Thanks for posting how Brexit Britain managed in months to do that deal, something the EU is still talking about after a quarter of a century.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...reement-latest

    One step closer, perhaps as soon as next year, to joining what will become the biggest trade bloc in the world.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57327372

    Let the bountiful Brexit benefits continue to flow...

  12. #28692
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thanks for posting how Brexit Britain managed in months to do that deal, something the EU is still talking about after a quarter of a century.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...reement-latest

    One step closer, perhaps as soon as next year, to joining what will become the biggest trade bloc in the world.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57327372

    Let the bountiful Brexit benefits continue to flow...
    0.02% of GDG. In 15 years time. That's some fucking benefit.

    That isn't even "jam tomorrow". That's a picture of jam on the back of a truck that's about to vanish over the horizon.

    Oh, and two things; one, we haven't seen the details of the deal yet. So no guarantee that the Brexiteer morons haven't fucked themselves in the arse with this deal like they did with the Ireland one. And two, the EU are very close to signing their own deal that I can pretty much guarantee will be better than this.

    So sure, get yourself pumped up with a tiny "win" like this. Because we all know you've got nothing tangible to point to as a Brexit benefit.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  13. #28693
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    0.02% of GDG. In 15 years time. That's some fucking benefit.

    That isn't even "jam tomorrow". That's a picture of jam on the back of a truck that's about to vanish over the horizon.

    Oh, and two things; one, we haven't seen the details of the deal yet. So no guarantee that the Brexiteer morons haven't fucked themselves in the arse with this deal like they did with the Ireland one. And two, the EU are very close to signing their own deal that I can pretty much guarantee will be better than this.

    So sure, get yourself pumped up with a tiny "win" like this. Because we all know you've got nothing tangible to point to as a Brexit benefit.
    It isn't just the trade aspect, free movement of people to live and work between Australia and the UK is another tangible benefit that comes with the deal, not possible as easily as when we were in the EU. I for one have missed the friendly banter of the many Aussies who used to work in London pubs until recently as they were forced to employ EU workers barely understanding English instead.

    Bit by bit as time elapses since Brexit, Britain becomes a little more British every day that passes. Another Brexit benefit as we distance ourselves more and more from the EU.

    Brexiteers like me in their pre-referendum manifesto promised remainers like you Unicorns and sunny uplands after we left.

    Unicorn nest: UK hits milestone of 100 $1bn tech companies, more than rest of Europe combined.

    https://www.cityam.com/unicorn-nest-...rope-combined/

    We are delivering on those Brexit benefits and promises in spades.

  14. #28694
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I for one have missed the friendly banter of the many Aussies who used to work in London pubs until recently as they were forced to employ EU workers barely understanding English instead.
    You mean chose to..? Because there wasn't a law that said Australians weren't allowed to work in pubs. The pub owners decided they'd rather hire someone else

  15. #28695
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It isn't just the trade aspect, free movement of people to live and work between Australia and the UK is another tangible benefit that comes with the deal, not possible as easily as when we were in the EU. I for one have missed the friendly banter of the many Aussies who used to work in London pubs until recently as they were forced to employ EU workers barely understanding English instead.

    Bit by bit as time elapses since Brexit, Britain becomes a little more British every day that passes. Another Brexit benefit as we distance ourselves more and more from the EU.

    Brexiteers like me in their pre-referendum manifesto promised remainers like you Unicorns and sunny uplands after we left.

    Unicorn nest: UK hits milestone of 100 $1bn tech companies, more than rest of Europe combined.

    https://www.cityam.com/unicorn-nest-...rope-combined/

    We are delivering on those Brexit benefits and promises in spades.
    hahahaha
    So you leave the EU to regain control of your borders.
    Then you turn around and give up that control again after 6 months?

    free movement of people
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #28696
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It isn't just the trade aspect, free movement of people to live and work between Australia and the UK is another tangible benefit that comes with the deal, not possible as easily as when we were in the EU. I for one have missed the friendly banter of the many Aussies who used to work in London pubs until recently as they were forced to employ EU workers barely understanding English instead.

    Bit by bit as time elapses since Brexit, Britain becomes a little more British every day that passes. Another Brexit benefit as we distance ourselves more and more from the EU.

    Brexiteers like me in their pre-referendum manifesto promised remainers like you Unicorns and sunny uplands after we left.

    Unicorn nest: UK hits milestone of 100 $1bn tech companies, more than rest of Europe combined.

    https://www.cityam.com/unicorn-nest-...rope-combined/

    We are delivering on those Brexit benefits and promises in spades.
    And dribbles come straight back with more bollocks. As expected.

    The number of those companies was already going up before Brexit. And it's continued to go up since we left. Literally impossible to tell if Brexit itself has had any impact on those numbers. Unless you have a set of data from the individual companies, where they stated which country they would have gone to if Brexit hadn't happened? What's that? You don't have that data? You just operate on feelings and bigotry?

    Tough. You don't get to sell that as a Brexit benefit. Not to anyone with brains anyway. Going to try again? Come up with an actual tangible benefit with data linking it specifically to Brexit?

    Didn't think so.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  17. #28697
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    hahahaha
    So you leave the EU to regain control of your borders.
    Then you turn around and give up that control again after 6 months?

    free movement of people
    I do wonder at times if when he's banned does he run low on rubles, then I remember that a lot of brexiteers believe the shit he posts. This deal is basically an Aussie win. Their farmers get to undercut UK farmers, the "Freedom of movement." deal is basically have people move to Aus to do jobs that are understaffed here cause no one is mad enough to do the jobs in the UK and all for a maximum growth of the gdp at 0.02%, or about a marsbar a year per household.

  18. #28698
    I love how 'Freedom of movement' is apparently a huge benefit. Think I'll up sticks and move my family out there...oh wait that would cost a ridiculous amount of money, far more than moving anywhere in the EU would have done whilst we were still in it. Hmm not quite sure how this is a win.

  19. #28699
    Quote Originally Posted by Attackrabbit View Post
    I love how 'Freedom of movement' is apparently a huge benefit. Think I'll up sticks and move my family out there...oh wait that would cost a ridiculous amount of money, far more than moving anywhere in the EU would have done whilst we were still in it. Hmm not quite sure how this is a win.
    You mean you don't want to go work on an Australian cattle ranch, dodging all of the venomous or bitey animals?

  20. #28700
    John Bercow who before becoming speaker was in the Conservative party. The same party that basically went out of its way to attack him and the position of speaker because he wouldn't let them break parliamentary rules to roughshot hard brexit (until the election) has officially joined Labour.

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