[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Crispin]

It's good that you seek guidance, exactly the reason Boris and the gang are headed to you Northern folk this weekend to deliver those trickle down Brexit benefits. Since being abandoned by Labour it's becoming the Tories natural home up there wouldn't you agree? As Sir Keir now courts the luvvies in Brighton.

Presumably if you are looking for answers you will attend the gathering in Manchester? All the heroes and architects of the Great Brexit will be there and oh my how the crowds will cheer for the Tories coming home.

So which benefit is it, that's worth food and gas shortage?

Expecting a very specific answer, otherwise you obviously have no idea.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Boris and the gang are headed to you Northern folk this weekend to deliver those trickle down Brexit benefits.

He's just as likely to be able to state any actual, real Brexit benefits as you are. I fully expect you to start spewing out the same nonsense shit he decides to spout up there, with very little delay.

How does it feel to be basing your world view on the word of a man who has been sacked for lying twice? Are you so lacking in critical thinking that you simply accept the word of a man who lies as naturally as breating, and views commitment to anything as a chore to be avoided (as seen by his having at least 6 children by who knows how many different women)?

Don't worry, if anyone tries to ask him a question that's too hard, I'm sure he'll hide in a fridge again. Brave Sir Boris ran away.

[Iliena]

Presumably if you are looking for answers you will attend the gathering in Manchester? All the heroes and architects of the Great Brexit will be there and oh my how the crowds will cheer for the Tories coming home.

Is it going to be like your own personal Nuremberg rally? ...If only I had the spare petrol to drive to Manchester, I'm sure it would have been a lovely day out!

[Draco-Onis]

You obviously need to go sector by sector here and I'll skip HGVs because it's done to death. But we are also short on Care staff and Warehouse staff, both of these sectors can afford to pay their staff much better since they recruit heavily through agencies whom they will be paying around £15 an hour to these agencies then eventually bring them in house at min wage.

The only sector that I can actually get behind needing to pay min wage is Hospitality because the businesses tend to be small scale with tight margins.

The labour shortage isn't just a Brexit thing either, it's definitely a huge factor but you also have a generation of people who are leaving the work force early because the job they've been in for 30 years has gone because of the pandemic or because retail is dying and the only job they can get after is a min wag Warehouse gig which is more graft than they can hack and they just opt to retire early or they are working in an industry which young people just haven't been pushed towards to train (see HGVs).

EU migration isnt a hard fix for these issues though and this reckoning has been coming for a long time, just Brexit and the pandemic has brought the date forward by a number of years.

A lot of shortage are for post that EU workers used to fill like healthcare. This labor shortage due to retirement is felt all over the modern world but it is countered by immigration in the US.

All these problems would require decades to fix using automation and adjusting expectations. However I don't see the UK having any way of fixing it in the short term. The worse part is you are going to be stuck in a brain drain cycle because people are Leaving the country already and less will be coming in with this mess.

[Kronik85]

A lot of shortage are for post that EU workers used to fill like healthcare. This labor shortage due to retirement is felt all over the modern world but it is countered by immigration in the US.

All these problems would require decades to fix using automation and adjusting expectations. However I don't see the UK having any way of fixing it in the short term. The worse part is you are going to be stuck in a brain drain cycle because people are Leaving the country already and less will be coming in with this mess.

Yes EU migration has helped mask the shortages but Care was understaffed pre Brexit too. Care is both understaffed and underpaid in the UK and it's to the detriment of both the people that work in the sector and the people they care for.

There are no short term fixes for the these issues beyond short stay visas and the Cons currently can't afford to open them up en mass or they will lose the Red/Brown voters that they snatched up last election with their new Populist platform.

Wh

[Draco-Onis]

Yes EU migration has helped mask the shortages but Care was understaffed pre Brexit too. Care is both understaffed and underpaid in the UK and it's to the detriment of both the people that work in the sector and the people they care for.

There are no short term fixes for the these issues beyond short stay visas and the Cons currently can't afford to open them up en mass or they will lose the Red/Brown voters that they snatched up last election with their new Populist platform.

Even if they issued those visas who in their right mind would want to go into this madness? This is not exactly the best advertising for a stay in the UK.

[dribbles]

So which benefit is it, that's worth food and gas shortage?

Expecting a very specific answer, otherwise you obviously have no idea.

UK business has got used to an unlimited supply of cheap Eastern European labour that has allowed them to pay starvation wages. A Brexit benefit is that UK business no longer has easy access to that labour and must now pay a proper living wage to attract British workers for British jobs.

It is a fault of the EU freedom of movement rules that allows some places to pay wages of 600 euro a month in order to generate profits in the already wealthy Northern EU countries.

Remainers/rejoiners on the side of slave labour from EE seem to be unhappy about rising UK salaries as business is forced to value people and their endeavours correctly. Brexiteers want to spread the wealth to all, remainers want to keep the rich rich at the expense of the already poor.

The temporary supply chain blip in food and petrol as UK business adjusts to the new normal, mostly caused by Covid not Brexit, is short term pain for long term gain.

Brexit allows us to build back better as in the end all will benefit tremendously.

[MCMLXXXII]

You get higher salary, you get higher salary, everybody gets higher salary. In an ideal world that would be perfect. However in a country like the UK it would mean consumer prices will go up so that higher salary doesn't mean a thing....

[Huehuecoyotl]

UK business has got used to an unlimited supply of cheap Eastern European labour that has allowed them to pay starvation wages. A Brexit benefit is that UK business no longer has easy access to that labour and must now pay a proper living wage to attract British workers for British jobs.

It is a fault of the EU freedom of movement rules that allows some places to pay wages of 600 euro a month in order to generate profits in the already wealthy Northern EU countries.

Remainers/rejoiners on the side of slave labour from EE seem to be unhappy about rising UK salaries as business is forced to value people and their endeavours correctly. Brexiteers want to spread the wealth to all, remainers want to keep the rich rich at the expense of the already poor.

The temporary supply chain blip in food and petrol as UK business adjusts to the new normal, mostly caused by Covid not Brexit, is short term pain for long term gain.

Brexit allows us to build back better as in the end all will benefit tremendously.

Liar. Your previous posts have made it clear that the only thing you REALLY care about is your house price and things that impact you personally. The notion that you suddenly care about low paid workers is transparent; it's the only thing that you think you can frame as an actual Brexit benefit.

And if you did want to aim towards something like that, the sensible approach would have been to go for a Brexit that maintained freedom of movement to begin with, ensuring that those workers continued to be available. Then to invest, as a country, in training British workers to fill those roles, while legislating for a steadily decreasing number of roles being available to foreign workers as the British training completes.

But that would have involved planning, effort, expertise and time. Boris wanted a Brexit that he could wave like a flag and say "it's done". Any warnings from the experts would have been dismissed. Any thought of working hard and planning properly would never have entered his head.

Hence the Brexit you demanded has fucked everything up. And people are now turning against it. If you'd done it properly, you might have got away with it, but Brexit has failed and no amount of flannel from the likes of you can cover that up. Tick tock dribbles, the time of Brexit is running out.

[Kronik85]

Even if they issued those visas who in their right mind would want to go into this madness? This is not exactly the best advertising for a stay in the UK.

What madness are you talking about exactly? The UK is more less exactly like it was before it left the EU. In the time since I last posted I went to a fully stocked supermarket (although I couldn't find any broccoli!) and filled up the car. These shortages are a YMMV thing mostly effecting densely populated areas.

The thing that would attract EU migrants over would be the same thing that always has done and that's better conditions and pay than in their native EU states in an English speaking country which is what the UK still provides.

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You get higher salary, you get higher salary, everybody gets higher salary. In an ideal world that would be perfect. However in a country like the UK it would mean consumer prices will go up so that higher salary doesn't mean a thing....

Salary is only one part of the equation that determines price, certain sectors are seeing wage increases far higher than the inflation of retail goods we are seeing. Yes prices are rising but min wage sectors are increasing wages by 10-20% and offering signing on bonuses of 1k plus.

[Draco-Onis]

What madness are you talking about exactly? The UK is more less exactly like it was before it left the EU. In the time since I last posted I went to a fully stocked supermarket (although I couldn't find any broccoli!) and filled up the car. These shortages are a YMMV thing mostly effecting densely populated areas.

The thing that would attract EU migrants over would be the same thing that always has done and that's better conditions and pay than in their native EU states in an English speaking country which is what the UK still provides.

The coverage of the press is what I am talking about maybe it's different on the ground but that is not the image that is being painted outside the UK. The UK is no longer offering better conditions than their EU countries, the labor shortage meant that their home countries have improved their wages and conditions. When you take into account the other cost associated, bureaucracy plus the uncertainty not really a good sell. I am sure there is a price that would make people overcome these hesitations but I am not sure businesses or consumers would be willing to pay it.

Last but not least this is a country that just voted to kick you out as a dirty immigrant.

[Barzotti]

The thing that would attract EU migrants over would be the same thing that always has done and that's better conditions and pay than in their native EU states in an English speaking country which is what the UK still provides.

Why aren't these EU lorry drivers running in droves in the UK, if it has become so advantageous for them? They should be interested by the wonderful deal promised by BoJo, no? Where are they? Good luck trying to recruit for three months (without anything for their accommodation or their comfort) the people you deemed as worthless job stealers. The retail store bosses trashed completely the government's plan and said it was doomed to fail.

And your personal anecdote is of course worthless because it's denying the nation wide difficulties related in countless of newspapers.



Great success, really.

[Draco-Onis]

Why aren't these EU lorry drivers running in droves in the UK, if it has become so advantageous for them? Where are they?

You mean they aren't eager to come back to a country that has spent years demonizing them then kicked them out who would have guessed.

[XDurionX]

Rare white stag shot dead on Bootle street by police.





Now I'm not saying the gods are angry at Britain, but....

Anyone here who knows about the status of the tower ravens?

https://www.hrp.org.uk/tower-of-lond...ens/#gs.cpwv35

Brexit allows us to build back better as in the end all will benefit tremendously.

At least you acknowledge that everything is crumbling.

[Barzotti]

You mean they aren't eager to come back to a country that has spent years demonizing them then kicked them out who would have guessed.

Curious, I know. Who could have predicted that? Not BoJo, apparently.

[zealo]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1930558.html

Brexit is going absolutely swimmingly, such sunlit uplands!

The government has asked thousands of Germans residing in the UK to drive lorries to assist with the HGV shortage, even if they have never driven one before.

Germans based in the UK were sent a letter by the Department for Transport, signed by transport minister Baroness Vere, asking them to “consider returning” to the HGV driving sector.

The letter states: “Your valuable skills and experience have never been more needed than they are now.

“There are fantastic HGV driving opportunities in the logistics industry and conditions of employment have been improving across the sector. As well as attractive pay rates, we are seeing more options for flexible working, fixed hours, fixed days, full time and part time.”

German driving licences issued before 1999 include an entitlement to drive a small to medium-sized truck of up to 7.5 tonnes. It is understood that almost all Germans residing in the UK who hold such a licence have been sent the letter, almost none of whom have ever driven an HGV before.

Seriously though, this move reeks of desperation.

[Kronik85]

The coverage of the press is what I am talking about maybe it's different on the ground but that is not the image that is being painted outside the UK. The UK is no longer offering better conditions than their EU countries, the labor shortage meant that their home countries have improved their wages and conditions. When you take into account the other cost associated, bureaucracy plus the uncertainty not really a good sell. I am sure there is a price that would make people overcome these hesitations but I am not sure businesses or consumers would be willing to pay it.

Last but not least this is a country that just voted to kick you out as a dirty immigrant.

If other EU countries are outcompeting the UK over these labourers then that's a good outcome imo. It's unsurprising that the UK is being painted as a hellscape and it's somewhat deserved frankly but I can't imagine it being infinitely better over on the continent, we are coming out of a pandemic it's been shit everywhere and it's brought the time table forward for a number of crisis in the UK but we aren't quite living in Escape From New York or Mad Max...yet.

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Why aren't these EU lorry drivers running in droves in the UK, if it has become so advantageous for them? They should be interested by the wonderful deal promised by BoJo, no? Where are they? Good luck trying to recruit for three months (without anything for their accommodation or their comfort) the people you deemed as worthless job stealers. The retail store bosses trashed completely the government's plan and said it was doomed to fail.

And your personal anecdote is of course worthless because it's denying the nation wide difficulties related in countless of newspapers.



Great success, really.

I've never argued Brexit is going well but isn't this HGV shortage something that's effecting all of the EU and standards are improving all over for them. If they can find better work locally then good for them.

My only point is that Brexit is actually working out for the economically and politically forgotten workers that recently stopped voting for Labour and just gifted BoJo a massive majority. I don't think it would be the case without Brexit being compounded by a pandemic but yeah in the Red Wall where I live, working alongside Brexiteers, Polish and Romanians (whom we haven't kicked out btw, no one has been kicked out and everyone living in the UK was offered the right to stay) then shits looking better atm than it did pre pandemic.

Sorry that Brexit hasn't been universally negative for every Brit. /Shrug

[dribbles]

I like that the UK is fighting the good fight against climate change by reducing lorries on the road. /s

They are doing the same in the EU. /s

Brussels Shop Shelves Empty

https://order-order.com/2021/10/01/n...pty-despiteeu/
https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgiu...helves-filled/

I guess some here will try to blame Brexit for that too...

[Forogil]

Says a lot about you when you use Guido for your news.

And to clarify - the empty shelves are the result of a strike in a local distribution warehouse in Brussels. Only a handful of stores in Brussels are affected.

Nothing to do with lack of lorry drivers: the strike is because a distribution warehouse supplying carrefour is planned to be closed and the workers don't like that.

[Huehuecoyotl]

And to clarify - the empty shelves are the result of a strike in a local distribution warehouse in Brussels. Only a handful of stores in Brussels are affected.

Nothing to do with lack of lorry drivers: the strike is because a distribution warehouse supplying carrefour is planned to be closed and the workers don't like that.

So dribbles is lying again? I really didn't expect that liar to lie like that. Oh wait, yes I did, he's been lying for several years now.

He can't find anything to show Brexit is going well. And now he can't find anything to prove that the failures in this country aren't caused by Brexit. He's a serial failure, much like his beloved Brexit.

He also hasn't explained why the problems we're experiencing aren't being replicated in NI, even though that's part of the UK and had as many problems with Covid as the mainland did. It's almost as if being part of the Single Market still is insulating them from these problems.

I can't wait for his next lie. Seeing him flailing around like this in desperation is chicken soup for my soul.