View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #29441
    This thread is still going? Did anything important happen that I missed? Bet not... let me guess, it's all just dribbles for many many pages denying reality?

  2. #29442
    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    This thread is still going? Did anything important happen that I missed? Bet not... let me guess, it's all just dribbles for many many pages denying reality?
    No, occasionally its the UK threatening to blow up the treaty they themselves negotiated and signed.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #29443
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Why do you waste your time? Dribbles will never, ever admit he is wrong about anything. He's too deep into a Sunk Cost fallacy with his devotion to Brexit to admit it's a massive clusterfuck.
    Because not challenging Dribbles, Sir Dupesalot and their ilk is a major reason that got us Trumpism, Brexit, and the growth of the far-right. Not talking about just on here obviously. This forum is minuscule to the entire situation but not challenging lies, misinformation and the bullshit, that these people post on here, on Reddit, on other forums, on the media, in the streets etcetc allows the ideas to grow, infect, spread like a cancer eating away at society. That is why even if Dribbles is even a paid troll it is dutyful for others to denounce, correct and make sure such people who post this shit without remorse are not the only ones on the platform pushing for their ideals that can and will harm others.

  4. #29444
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Because not challenging Dribbles, Sir Dupesalot and their ilk is a major reason that got us Trumpism, Brexit, and the growth of the far-right. Not talking about just on here obviously. This forum is minuscule to the entire situation but not challenging lies, misinformation and the bullshit, that these people post on here, on Reddit, on other forums, on the media, in the streets etcetc allows the ideas to grow, infect, spread like a cancer eating away at society. That is why even if Dribbles is even a paid troll it is dutyful for others to denounce, correct and make sure such people who post this shit without remorse are not the only ones on the platform pushing for their ideals that can and will harm others.
    This thread is substantially more informative about what's going on in EU and UK than anything published by the US main stream media. Count me in as being thankful for Dribbles, and thankful for everyone responding so forcefully to him.

    It goes without saying that he has become the single most anti-UK and pro-EU poster on this site. His posts have led to pages of material explaining the way that EU works, and why it works that way. He also makes UK look VERY bad. In almost every single conflict, his initial lies... err comments.. lead to people not only explaining why the EU is acting in reasonable ways, but also demonstrates the flat out stupidity and incompetence in the way the UK has been handling this since 2017 or so.

    I always think back to the bendy banana conflict, where people in the UK were outraged that bendy bananas were banned. It turned out that English businesses were just as interested in making bananas uniform due to cost considerations. If Dribbles had not harped on it for so long, I would never have known this, and would have assumed that there was at least A LITTLE merit in the English outrage. It turns out it was 100% fake outrage.

  5. #29445
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    This thread is substantially more informative about what's going on in EU and UK than anything published by the US main stream media. Count me in as being thankful for Dribbles, and thankful for everyone responding so forcefully to him.

    It goes without saying that he has become the single most anti-UK and pro-EU poster on this site. His posts have led to pages of material explaining the way that EU works, and why it works that way. He also makes UK look VERY bad. In almost every single conflict, his initial lies... err comments.. lead to people not only explaining why the EU is acting in reasonable ways, but also demonstrates the flat out stupidity and incompetence in the way the UK has been handling this since 2017 or so.

    I always think back to the bendy banana conflict, where people in the UK were outraged that bendy bananas were banned. It turned out that English businesses were just as interested in making bananas uniform due to cost considerations. If Dribbles had not harped on it for so long, I would never have known this, and would have assumed that there was at least A LITTLE merit in the English outrage. It turns out it was 100% fake outrage.
    I think the best one though wasn't even bendy bananas. It was sausages. Not the recent debate but a while back (early 2000s I believe) one of the anti europe papers were talking about how the EU wanted to ban the British sausage for reasons.

    Turns out this newspaper was quite literally taking the plot from "Yes, Minister." episode where the PM retired and the main character became PM (Leading to the show Yes, Prime Minister.). Where Europe (The EEC at this time) didn't like how the UK produced sausages because quite simply in real terms it was terrible and wanted to call it emulsified, high-fat offal tube. In the show it was settled on that British Sausage would be an acceptable compromise.

  6. #29446
    Banned dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    As always your point is defeated by your own article
    So the EU has stopped legal action against the UK over unilateral action in violation of the WA because the UK has stopped with their threats of unilateral action and instead offered something to negotiate over.

    Nor has the EU 'caved' because So the WA and the Irish Border protocol that is part of it must still be respected in any proposal the EU considers.
    That Article is an EU source spun for an EU audience, of course it will be dressed up to try to make a bad situation look as good as possible for them. But you can rely on the open and honest British free press to tell it exactly how it is as it is being reported this morning...

    Von der Leyen bottles it!

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...lks-standstill

    If you hold all the cards you don't make massive concessions like that.

  7. #29447
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    That Article is an EU source spun for an EU audience, of course it will be dressed up to try to make a bad situation look as good as possible for them. But you can rely on the open and honest British free press to tell it exactly how it is as it is being reported this morning...

    Von der Leyen bottles it!

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...lks-standstill

    If you hold all the cards you don't make massive concessions like that.
    Your last sentence there is very true. So lets look at the sequence of events, shall we?

    1. The UK threatens to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol.
    2. The EU starts legal action against the UK
    3. The UK promises not to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol for the immediate future
    4. The EU pauses legal action against the UK

    Now, the UK made the first step. Did the EU back down? No, they did not. They responded forcefully to the UK threats, as you'd expect. So what happens next? The UK, realising that the EU is calling their obvious bluff, backs down. As a result the EU put their rocket launcher back in its box.

    So you are quite correct; you don't make concessions when you hold all the cards. And the UK was the one making the concession, the EU simply reacted to that concession. We blinked first.

    We only "win" this if the EU decides to undermine their market. Which they've never done in the entire process, and have made it completely clear they never will. Either the UK backs down and looks stupid and weak, or they push ahead and break the GFA (probably triggering action from both the EU and US). Making them look stupid and incompetent.

    What the Express says is irrelevant. This isn't going to be won by pandering to the racist core of Brexit support. This is purely trying to keep the Tory base onside with the process by lying to them. The UK aren't going to win this debate, and you can quote me on this.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  8. #29448

  9. #29449
    what the fuck is the churchill project some tories seeing how much money the lincoln project generated and trying to get a touch in the uk?

  10. #29450
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    what the fuck is the churchill project some tories seeing how much money the lincoln project generated and trying to get a touch in the uk?
    No fucking clue, the main sorce (article) is The National, that I don't know much about but doesn't seem to be a Murdoch rag from a 5 second google run. The twitter thread is more from the other guy who does a very limited run on supply chain logistics and priorization. My assumption is that the churchill project is some BorisJohnson account.
    - Lars

  11. #29451
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    what the fuck is the churchill project some tories seeing how much money the lincoln project generated and trying to get a touch in the uk?
    It's pretty much yeah Lincoln Project UK was brought up basically after Bojo essentially kicked Churchill's grandson out of the party and saw how the Lincoln Project was doing things in the US. Essentially they're anti-Bojo Tories.

  12. #29452
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyaki View Post
    This thread is still going? Did anything important happen that I missed? Bet not... let me guess, it's all just dribbles for many many pages denying reality?
    Well, there's a huge issue with logistics that they're trying some serious mental gymnastics to make Covid's fault, except not Covid's fault really because they'd then have to accept Covid infection rates were a problem, but instead it's the fact people have to isolate around Covid which again, is nothing to do with Covid infection rates. And definitely none of it has anything to do with Brexit even though driver agencies are screaming that they need to be able to hire EU drivers because no one in the UK is qualified or wants to do that work.

    It's like one of the things Brexiters actually promised - reduced competition for jobs - is actually coming through, except not with the increased salaries, but a ton of inflation instead.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2021-07-29 at 11:29 AM.

  13. #29453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Well, there's a huge issue with logistics that they're trying some serious mental gymnastics to make Covid's fault, except not Covid's fault really because they'd then have to accept Covid infection rates were a problem, but instead it's the fact people have to isolate around Covid which again, is nothing to do with Covid infection rates. And definitely none of it has anything to do with Brexit even though driver agencies are screaming that they need to be able to hire EU drivers because no one in the UK is qualified or wants to do that work.

    It's like one of the things Brexiters actually promised - reduced competition for jobs - is actually coming through, except not with the increased salaries, but a ton of inflation instead.
    Also the fact that almost all food imports to Scotland go through southern England. And stay there for days. So perishables get a shorter shelf-life while being more expensive to import (even if there isn't a tarrif, having to do all the importation paperwork makes it more expensive).
    - Lars

  14. #29454
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Well, there's a huge issue with logistics that they're trying some serious mental gymnastics to make Covid's fault, except not Covid's fault really because they'd then have to accept Covid infection rates were a problem, but instead it's the fact people have to isolate around Covid which again, is nothing to do with Covid infection rates. And definitely none of it has anything to do with Brexit even though driver agencies are screaming that they need to be able to hire EU drivers because no one in the UK is qualified or wants to do that work.

    It's like one of the things Brexiters actually promised - reduced competition for jobs - is actually coming through, except not with the increased salaries, but a ton of inflation instead.
    This is one of the key stupidities of Brexit coming to reality. If you want to move from a skilled job being done by foreign workers, to having it done by UK workers, then you do that by degrees. You sort out where those workers are coming from, ensure the training facilities are in place, then steadily move towards increasing the proportion of UK workers. You get to where you want to be in a controlled way.

    But Brexiteers didn't want that; they wanted to slam the door shut. They wanted to create a hostile environment for foreign workers. So suddenly they lost all those EU drivers and in an outcome that apparently none of them saw coming, they had a huge shortfall of drivers and no magic wand to wave to create them. We're now facing huge logistical problems from supermarket goods to local rubbish collections (councils that use agency drivers for their refuse trucks are proving to be almost impossible to source).

    Predictable outcomes to the Brexiteers activities. But none of them wanted to face this, or to manage the Brexit process in a way that would avoid this. Now they're reaping the rewards of their stupidity and the results are going to damage the UK economy even more for some time to come. It's what happens when you leave things to people that are too stupid to manage anything properly, and too egotistical to admit that they aren't perfect in everything they do. It's also what happens when you leave things to people that have been told all their lives that they have been raised to be in positions of power. Eton has a LOT to answer for.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  15. #29455
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Also the fact that almost all food imports to Scotland go through southern England. And stay there for days. So perishables get a shorter shelf-life while being more expensive to import (even if there isn't a tarrif, having to do all the importation paperwork makes it more expensive).
    Yep, nothing to do with that either. It's because truck drivers are getting pinged by the test and trace app. Because the app is the problem. The app, and refugees in tiny boats being rescued by the RNLI.

  16. #29456
    Can't wait for someone to show up and prove you all wrong with a link that proves you all right.

  17. #29457
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Can't wait for someone to show up and prove you all wrong with a link that proves you all right.
    None of the three Brexiteers on here are even slightly interested in discussing anything or learning anything. They pop in, shout about how Brexit is brilliant, link to an article that actually proves them wrong (as you say) then talk about how things feel better for them. Any articles detailing problems are fake news, we're just being nasty and talking the country down. Hilarious that in their eyes talking the country down is a major problem, but making decisions that fuck the economy up is just fine.

    No danger of any of them admitting that their glorious Brexit is anything other than perfect. As with saw with dribbles and his hilarious list of "benefits" that were instantly shown to be rubbish. He just ignored the debunking and proclaimed himself the victor. He is the chess playing pigeon made flesh.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  18. #29458
    Banned dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Your last sentence there is very true. So lets look at the sequence of events, shall we?

    1. The UK threatens to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol.
    2. The EU starts legal action against the UK
    3. The UK promises not to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol for the immediate future
    4. The EU pauses legal action against the UK

    Now, the UK made the first step. Did the EU back down? No, they did not. They responded forcefully to the UK threats, as you'd expect. So what happens next? The UK, realising that the EU is calling their obvious bluff, backs down. As a result the EU put their rocket launcher back in its box.

    So you are quite correct; you don't make concessions when you hold all the cards. And the UK was the one making the concession, the EU simply reacted to that concession. We blinked first.

    We only "win" this if the EU decides to undermine their market. Which they've never done in the entire process, and have made it completely clear they never will. Either the UK backs down and looks stupid and weak, or they push ahead and break the GFA (probably triggering action from both the EU and US). Making them look stupid and incompetent.

    What the Express says is irrelevant. This isn't going to be won by pandering to the racist core of Brexit support. This is purely trying to keep the Tory base onside with the process by lying to them. The UK aren't going to win this debate, and you can quote me on this.
    You are living in an alternate reality and interestingly provide no source to back up your own personal views. Meanwhile I provide several, here's another.

    Faced with Lord Frost, the EU blinks first

    Yesterday in Brussels the EU Commission backed down and acceded to one of Lord Frost's key demands which was contained in the UK Government's command Paper issued last Wednesday 21 July 2021.


    https://facts4eu.org/news/2021_jul_eu_blinks

    Great to see we have such competence in our brilliant negotiators wouldn't you say?

  19. #29459
    Legendary! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You are living in an alternate reality
    This is some straight glass houses shit.
    Blessed are the fornicates, may we bend down to be their whores. Blessed are the rich, may our labor deliver them more.
    Blessed are the envious; bless the slothful, the wrathful, the vain. Blessed are the gluttonous, may they feast us to famine and war.
    What of the pious, the pure of heart, the peaceful, the meek, the mourning, and the merciful? All doomed, all doomed

  20. #29460
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You are living in an alternate reality and interestingly provide no source to back up your own personal views.
    Funnily enough, you actually provided a source earlier.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/...r-ni-protocol/

    The goodwill gesture by the commission is in response to the Command Paper presented last week to the British Parliament by David Frost, the UK minster in charge of relations with the EU.

    It called for a "standstill period", during which the EU would not proceed with its legal actions against the UK, and the UK would not make any more unilateral moves to disapply parts of the protocol.
    "In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance." Paradox of tolerance

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