View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #29561
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    NI has not been abandoned, there was never any intention of honouring the WA by the UK. It hasn't been fully implemented by the UK and never will be no matter how much the EU huffs and puffs. Extension after extension, kicking the can down the road, will be implemented unilaterally by the UK and the EU dare do nothing about it.

    Ireland is not the same place it was 20 years ago and by following the anglo business model, often placing it at loggerheads with the EU socialist one, has become extremely wealthy. Wealthy people, like the Irish now, with lots to lose do not go around bombing things IRA style willy nilly because of the potential consequences to that wealth.

    The gradual coming together and strengthening of the anglosphere, as evidenced by the latest Aukus submarine deal snatched by the UK and at the expense of the EU, is very necessary as the weakened and divided EU fragments and falls apart.

    A Brexit benefit is that we are protected from the fallout of that somewhat as the UK rejoins our English speaking brothers in a truly strong and stable global alliance bringing order to the chaos and confusion post pandemic. The EU will play no part in that, it just does not possess the attributes required.
    Thank you, for so expertly proving my point.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  2. #29562
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Boris gives in and orders the removal of another one of those "Brexit benefits":

    https://www.ft.com/content/8335166f-...f-d7554c3b40b2

    Yes, we're going to be begging all of those EU HGV drivers to please come back and help us. Because we're incapable of maintaining a functioning society without them. How many will actually answer the call?

    I wonder what the next part of Brexit will be that collapses under the weight of reality? Fishing industry? Financial Services?

    It's almost as if the morons running our country (and Brexit) had no clue what they were doing, what they were signing up for, or how anything works. I don't know what they exact opposite of "makes you proud to be British" is, but I'm pretty sure I'm feeling it.
    This post would make a lot more sense if this was a British problem only.

    It has been looming across the whole of the EU for years
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  3. #29563
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No shortages in my local Waitrose this morning I,m pleased to report, however...
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1925557.html

    From yesterday. I guess that the Independent is lying then? Or are you too lazy to google "uk empty shelves"?

    "In an open letter to Boris Johnson, organised by the National Farmers’ Union (NFU), 12 food and drink trade groups said the food and farming sector is on a “knife edge” due to a “crippling” shortage of workers across the entire supply chain."

    “Without it, more shelves will go empty and consumers will panic buy to try to get through the winter,” the letter warns.

    "As well as big names, including McDonald’s, struggling to keep all their products available, there is a parallel shortage of labour in the fields, meaning tonnes of edible food is going to waste."

    I guess all the food and drink groups don't know what they are talking about It always baffles me how the Brexiters can deny the most obvious reality. They wouldn't see the reality even if it would bite them in the balls. But enjoy your freedom, you fought tooth and nails to earn the right to have stations rationing fuel.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-09-25 at 12:57 PM.

  4. #29564
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1925557.html

    From yesterday. I guess that the Independent is lying then?

    "In an open letter to Boris Johnson, organised by the National Farmers’ Union (NFU), 12 food and drink trade groups said the food and farming sector is on a “knife edge” due to a “crippling” shortage of workers across the entire supply chain."

    “Without it, more shelves will go empty and consumers will panic buy to try to get through the winter,” the letter warns.

    "As well as big names, including McDonald’s, struggling to keep all their products available, there is a parallel shortage of labour in the fields, meaning tonnes of edible food is going to waste."

    I guess all the food and drink groups don't know what they are talking about It always baffles me how the Brexiters can deny the most obvious reality. They wouldn't see the reality even if it would bite them in the balls.
    It is a global problem, if anything Brexit in yet another benefit is helping to provide a solution for the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Shapps
    Brexit is not to blame for HGV driver shortage and ‘has helped to provide a solution’, Grant ShappsThe Transport Secretary said leaving the EU has actually helped “provide a solution” to the problem, as he has been able to ramp up the number of driving tests available to new recruits.

    Mr Shapps told Sky News: “I have seen people point to Brexit as the culprit here when in fact they are wrong.

    “Not only are there very large and even larger shortages in other EU countries like Poland and Germany, which clearly can’t be because of Brexit.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit-news...tation-1215749

    All the problems in the world cannot be blamed on Brexit, as any sensible person would see.

  5. #29565
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It is a global problem, if anything Brexit in yet another benefit is helping to provide a solution for the UK.



    https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit-news...tation-1215749

    All the problems in the world cannot be blamed on Brexit, as any sensible person would see.
    A global problem? There are absolutely 0 problems in France, no fuel rationing, no empty shelves. I didn't hear anything like that in Germany, Spain or Italy too.

    All you're doing is spouting the asinine governmental rhetoric consisting of denying the most obvious facts. And this point of view is repeating "this is fine" while standing still during a fire. Maybe you'll keep repeating "we won goise! Brexit is a great success!" while waiting for your 30 pounds max fuel refill.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-09-25 at 01:16 PM.

  6. #29566
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    NI has not been abandoned, there was never any intention of honouring the WA by the UK.
    Ah yes, because other countries just *LOVE* making deals with people they know they can't trust.

    If you don't honour the WA, then no one will ever trust a deal made with you again, which means no one will ever make a deal with you, because a deal where you can't trust the other side to uphold their part is worth less than the paper it's written on

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It is a global problem, if anything Brexit in yet another benefit is helping to provide a solution for the UK.



    https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit-news...tation-1215749

    All the problems in the world cannot be blamed on Brexit, as any sensible person would see.
    That's just the HGV problem.. Has nothing to do with the food and farming industries. And where I'm from we don't have empty shelves, so empty shelves isn't a global problem even remotely

  7. #29567
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    It is a global problem, if anything Brexit in yet another benefit is helping to provide a solution for the UK.
    It is not a global problem. And your "Brexit-caused solution" is to get more HGV drivers from EU countries. What's wrong, don't British people want those jobs that the EU nationals were taking from them?

  8. #29568
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    there was never any intention of honouring the WA by the UK. It hasn't been fully implemented by the UK and never will be no matter how much the EU huffs and puffs. Extension after extension, kicking the can down the road, will be implemented unilaterally by the UK and the EU dare do nothing about it.
    Only in some warped Brexit-loving mind can this be seen as even close to a good thing.

  9. #29569
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No shortages in my local Waitrose this morning I,m pleased to report, however...

    The global supply chain issues are no more to do with Brexit than global warming is. Many places in the EU, Poland for example, have it worse than the UK in terms of lorry driver shortages. Did Brexit cause that too?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/garthfr...h=103194f43491

    Silly attempt to stray off the topic of Brexit to deflect from a sour remainers lost cause. Start another thread would be my advice, it has nothing to do with this one.
    So tell us where this "local Waitrose" is that is apparently immune to stock issues? Oh, and the distribution issues are down to the lack of HGV drivers. A large part of which is Brexit driving all the foreign ones away when we didn't have enough "British" ones to replace them with. Hence Boris talking about reversing that part of Brexit (not offering drivers visas) to mitigate the problem.

    So Boris thinks that reversing a part of Brexit will solve the driver issue. You claim that the driver issue has nothing to do with Brexit. I'm in a quandry now, which one of the two serial liars do I believe?
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  10. #29570
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Ah yes, because other countries just *LOVE* making deals with people they know they can't trust.

    If you don't honour the WA, then no one will ever trust a deal made with you again, which means no one will ever make a deal with you, because a deal where you can't trust the other side to uphold their part is worth less than the paper it's written on
    So I guess Australia is out in the cold then for ripping up her deal with France over the subs? Strewth...

    There is no point in the UK honouring right now a WA that the people of NI will reject shortly. And reject it they probably will in 3 years time when the democratically provided and EU agreed to consent mechanism post transition kicks in.

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...sent-mechanism

    At that point the UK is demonstrably trustworthy to the world because it will honour the WA then by making it null and void. The EU knows and agreed to this process, as did the UK, there's no trickery here.

    In 3 years time, after extension after extension in the current status quo, we will honour and comply fully with it by ripping it up and seeking something new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    So tell us where this "local Waitrose" is that is apparently immune to stock issues? Oh, and the distribution issues are down to the lack of HGV drivers. A large part of which is Brexit driving all the foreign ones away when we didn't have enough "British" ones to replace them with. Hence Boris talking about reversing that part of Brexit (not offering drivers visas) to mitigate the problem.

    So Boris thinks that reversing a part of Brexit will solve the driver issue. You claim that the driver issue has nothing to do with Brexit. I'm in a quandry now, which one of the two serial liars do I believe?
    Answer the question how did Brexit cause the shortage of 123,000 lorry drivers in Poland? The 60,000 shortage of drivers in Germany?

    You won't will you, but the answer is Brexit didn't, same way it didn't cause the 100,000 HGV driver shortage in the UK.

  11. #29571
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Answer the question how did Brexit cause the shortage of 123,000 lorry drivers in Poland? The 60,000 shortage of drivers in Germany?

    You won't will you, but the answer is Brexit didn't, same way it didn't cause the 100,000 HGV driver shortage in the UK.
    The Road Haulage Association estimates that 20,000 EU HGV drivers left during the Brexit process. Are you suggesting that having 20k fewer drivers is NOT part of the reason for the shortage we're now experiencing?

    I'm ignoring your whataboutisms regarding other countries. I'd assumed that you didn't care about any of them because they aren't Britain. And also because even though those countries are experiencing a shortage of drivers, it isn't having the same impact on goods on shelves.

    Food rotting in fields. Not enough drivers. Energy prices surging. Government intervention required to prevent a shut-down of our meat production industry. Boris going cap in hand to Brazil to try and avoid destroying Xmas. This golden age of Britain that we were promised once Brexit was completed sure looks a bit shit from where I'm sitting.

    And where is this fully stocked Waitrose dribbles? So we can check the local news and see what action they've taken to avoid country wide issues.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  12. #29572
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Answer the question how did Brexit cause the shortage of 123,000 lorry drivers in Poland? The 60,000 shortage of drivers in Germany?

    You won't will you, but the answer is Brexit didn't, same way it didn't cause the 100,000 HGV driver shortage in the UK.
    It speaks volumes in itself you decided to just ignore the question of where this ”local Waitrose” is.

    I think we all know the answer to that, don’t we?

  13. #29573
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    It speaks volumes in itself you decided to just ignore the question of where this ”local Waitrose” is.

    I think we all know the answer to that, don’t we?
    Gotta do his research and find any article about one that is doing OK, first. Otherwise, it'd be so incredibly easy to just rattle off any old town/city.

  14. #29574
    Apparently, when your goal is ethno-nationalism, and you don't want foreigners... someone will eventually have to do all the jobs the foreigners were doing.

    The Brexiteers never really thought this through.

  15. #29575
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Apparently, when your goal is ethno-nationalism, and you don't want foreigners... someone will eventually have to do all the jobs the foreigners were doing.

    The Brexiteers never really thought this through.
    That's what the Irish were for before the foreigners took their jobs away.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #29576
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Apparently, when your goal is ethno-nationalism, and you don't want foreigners... someone will eventually have to do all the jobs the foreigners were doing.

    The Brexiteers never really thought this through.
    On the bright side, look at how much jobs are available for British people now that the UK got rid of the damn foreigners stealing the honourable people's jobs! Unemployment rates should be at a historical low. They should be happy they took back control of the market place. But what do you mean, British don't want those jobs either and the whole UK economy relies on foreigners doing the shittiest/less interesting tasks? Who could have predicted that you don't get rid of the people you need the most.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-09-25 at 04:20 PM.

  17. #29577
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    That's what the Irish were for before the foreigners took their jobs away.
    Irish what century is this?

    buddy of mine does stuff for events usually ships in 450 Romanians for litter picking. because of brexit and covid had to hire brits only 125 turned up out of 450, half left after 2 days of 7. utter clusterfuck.

    the funny thing is the Europeans aren't coming back, gonna have to go further a field. the brexiteers who had problems with poles are about to get Turks and Algerians as neighbors. sure they will take it well.

  18. #29578
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No shortages in my local Waitrose this morning I,m pleased to report, however...

    The global supply chain issues are no more to do with Brexit than global warming is. Many places in the EU, Poland for example, have it worse than the UK in terms of lorry driver shortages. Did Brexit cause that too?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/garthfr...h=103194f43491

    Silly attempt to stray off the topic of Brexit to deflect from a sour remainers lost cause. Start another thread would be my advice, it has nothing to do with this one.
    Oh, so because yours is fine, means that all of them are fine? Talk about anecdotal bullshit. I will go with the sources, over someone who doesn't go outside of his bubble very often, when he knows he is wrong.

  19. #29579
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No shortages in my local Waitrose this morning I,m pleased to report
    Didn't know they had Waitrose in Australia.
    You're not "playing devil's advocate", you're making someone who is likely speaking from personal experience defend themselves against the shitty and oppressive opinion you're too embarrassed to admit you actually believe in. It's you. You're the devil.

  20. #29580
    South of England dweller here.

    Currently have petrol and diesel shortages.

    Food seems plentiful at the moment, i haven't seen any major shortages yet.

    There are multiple reasons for HGV driver shortages. Currently losing about 2,000 drivers per week.

    This is mostly due to retirees not being replaced by younger people believe it or not, training of which can cost up to £7,000 and low wages being a big deterrent.

    Covid has played a big part, especially since EU lorry drivers can't actually get in to the UK due to PCR testing requirements.

    Brexit has played a part too, but according to sky news its nowhere near as big as the retiree and covid issues.

    We will soon find out though, UK government have increased driver wages to excellent levels, moving to a green / red covid system and creating priority working visas for EU workers.

    If the crisis isn't resolved with those measures, then yes we can say the only factor remaining to blame was Brexit.

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