View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #29601
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    You can bet the farmers are already putting pressure on to allow fruit pickers in. The same will then happen with service industry workers. We will end up with annual periods where we bring over as many EU workers as we can to address "temporary" shortfalls in workers.

    This is what dribbles never understood. He thought we were expecting to reverse Brexit in one big chunk, a giant "back in" to reverse the sudden departure. But we never properly left (there are plenty of Brexit transition periods still in place) and Brexit is falling apart all on it's own. This is the start of a death by a thousand cuts for Brexit. Boris has accepted now that certain aspects of Brexit need to be reversed in certain circumstances. He's going to spend the rest of his time as PM trying to explain why it is necessary this time, and isn't for all the other industries negatively impacted by Brexit.

    Brexit is effectively dead. It just hasn't stopped twitching yet. Give it a decade and we'll be back in the EU in all but name, and we can start asking why we shouldn't, you know, join. Since we'd get more benefits that way.

    Farcical end to a ludicrous process.
    Yep.

    It starts with temporary visas for HGV drivers and farm workers.
    Then there'll be visas for hotel and restaurant staff.
    Then every other industry will demand equal treatment.
    These will become long-term work visas, and then full work permits.

    A decade of salami tactics like this Home Office move will put the UK in the same position that Norway and Switzerland are in. And then they'll re-join, because they might as well be part of the decision-making process as be a passive rule-taker with no say that pays for the privilege. And people like Dribbles will be sitting in their pubs asking what the hell just happened.

  2. #29602
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    dailymail

    Reality factcheck for everyone.
    The Daily Mail is a "reality factcheck" to absolutely nobody. Give over.

  3. #29603
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Yep.

    It starts with temporary visas for HGV drivers and farm workers.
    Then there'll be visas for hotel and restaurant staff.
    Then every other industry will demand equal treatment.
    These will become long-term work visas, and then full work permits.

    A decade of salami tactics like this Home Office move will put the UK in the same position that Norway and Switzerland are in. And then they'll re-join, because they might as well be part of the decision-making process as be a passive rule-taker with no say that pays for the privilege. And people like Dribbles will be sitting in their pubs asking what the hell just happened.
    If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.

    But the UK is basically a one party country at the moment.

    Lib Dems were destroyed a decade ago, and Labour destroyed under Corbyn.

    I think most people in the UK would prefer easily accessible VISA'S to open borders though. It will be perceived as a better form of border management.

    Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.

    I don't know any leavers who wanted to economically leave the EU.

    Everybody was basically happy with the trading bloc for the actual trading part.

    I think the perception is open borders hit the working class really hard and drove salaries down.

    I tend to agree with that, salaries haven't had a proper increase in the UK for well over a decade.

  4. #29604
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.
    The point is, would the EU even want the UK back in the union? The UK has been a pain in the EU ass during fifty years, sabotaged the european construction and the UK government's attitude since the Brexit vote has been laughable at best. If the British say "I swear it will be different if you let us in this time", well, BoJo made it adamantly clear that he can't be trusted. The entire UK attitude since 1973 towards the EU shows that.

    Why would the EU take back a country that shat on his floor during 50 years, wiped his ass on the curtains and made it clear that they were terrible partners? It's not like the EU countries are begging the British to come back. It's more "good riddance you assholes".
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-09-26 at 10:57 AM.

  5. #29605
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    The point is, would the EU even want the UK back in the union? The UK has been a pain in the EU ass during fifty years, sabotaged the european construction and the UK government's attitude since the Brexit vote has been laughable at best. If the British say "I swear it will be different if you let us in this time", well, BoJo made it adamantly clear that he can't be trusted. The entire UK attitude since 1973 towards the EU shows that.

    Why would the EU take back a country that shat on his floor during 50 years, wiped his ass on the curtains and made it clear that they were terrible partners? It's not like the EU countries are begging the British to come back. It's more "good riddance you assholes".
    Money.

    The UK was the 2nd biggest financial contributor to the whole EU project.

  6. #29606
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    Money.

    The UK was the 2nd biggest financial contributor to the whole EU project.
    That's a good argument and the UK has been a net contributor to the EU budget (even though it was only 5th in contribution per capita). But it implies that:

    - everything revolves around money, and the political EU project is beyond grocer calculations ala Thatcher;

    - British people would be OK to pay again for an union they willingly quit partly because they considered they paid too much for the other countries;

    - the EU negociators would be willing to deal with the UK bullshit and the unrealistic demands. Do the potnetial monetary gains exceed the hassle and the headache? The Brexit negotiations have been five years of nightmarish pain in the ass and Brexit isn't even done yet.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2021-09-26 at 11:38 AM.

  7. #29607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    Money.

    The UK was the 2nd biggest financial contributor to the whole EU project.
    Per capita they were fifth, the Netherlands is first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  8. #29608
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    Per capita they were fifth, the Netherlands is first.
    6th even, 25% behind austria.

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/whi...the-eu-budget/

  9. #29609
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The UK has just left the shithole, now sovereign it's not stuck in it anymore. Meanwhile back at the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation...

    BBC comes under fire for 'pretending driver crisis is all about Brexit' and ignoring the fact shortages have affected countries throughout the world

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...is-Brexit.html

    Reality factcheck for everyone.
    There’s a vast difference on a shortage, and not being able to deliver groceries and fuel.

    Is NI also short on food deliveries and fuel? It’s part of the UK, but within the single market. It’s rather amusing, to have a small part of the UK still in the single market for comparison. (Shit for your argument)

    I work for an oil company, and have transport and logistics companies as clients. Some are short on 1-2 drivers, others arent. None are seeing the issues the UK has tho.
    Last edited by Crispin; 2021-09-26 at 12:39 PM.

  10. #29610
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post

    Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.
    "Open borders" was never actually a thing. But it's moot to relitigate delusions of 2016.

    The reasons for Brexit were always rooted in lies and delusions of exceptionalism.

  11. #29611
    uk has a shortage of 100-200k hgv drivers
    it takes 4-6 months to train so the problem cant be solved before 2022
    eu has a driver shortage too and offers better pay and conditions
    JIT is fucked in the uk because of brexit

    cant solve a structural problem by issuing a couple thousand poxy visas, its coal for xmas

  12. #29612
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    uk has a shortage of 100-200k hgv drivers
    it takes 4-6 months to train so the problem cant be solved before 2022
    eu has a driver shortage too and offers better pay and conditions
    JIT is fucked in the uk because of brexit

    cant solve a structural problem by issuing a couple thousand poxy visas, its coal for xmas
    Assuming the coal can be picked up from the harbour, of course.

  13. #29613
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.

    But the UK is basically a one party country at the moment.

    Lib Dems were destroyed a decade ago, and Labour destroyed under Corbyn.

    I think most people in the UK would prefer easily accessible VISA'S to open borders though. It will be perceived as a better form of border management.

    Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.

    I don't know any leavers who wanted to economically leave the EU.

    Everybody was basically happy with the trading bloc for the actual trading part.

    I think the perception is open borders hit the working class really hard and drove salaries down.

    I tend to agree with that, salaries haven't had a proper increase in the UK for well over a decade.
    So, it's about racism and ethno-nationalism... got it.

  14. #29614
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    If Labour ever get back in power again, i think they'll definitely hold another referendum to rejoin the EU.

    But the UK is basically a one party country at the moment.

    Lib Dems were destroyed a decade ago, and Labour destroyed under Corbyn.

    I think most people in the UK would prefer easily accessible VISA'S to open borders though. It will be perceived as a better form of border management.

    Open borders, in my opinion, are literally the only reason Brexit won.

    I don't know any leavers who wanted to economically leave the EU.

    Everybody was basically happy with the trading bloc for the actual trading part.

    I think the perception is open borders hit the working class really hard and drove salaries down.

    I tend to agree with that, salaries haven't had a proper increase in the UK for well over a decade.
    The problem is, that the idea that the depressed UK salaries are a result of open borders is a right wing fabrication. Those workers are gone now, has your salary gone up?

    The UK is notoriously bad at upward mobility in social classes. You even see this in your democracy (house of lords? Seriously?). The upper classes have a vested interest in keeping the working class down. Sadly, they succeeded in feeding a narrative that focusses the frustration of this to “them foreigners”. They never wanted brexit to win, they just wanted people to think they were fighting for it.

  15. #29615
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    The problem is, that the idea that the depressed UK salaries are a result of open borders is a right wing fabrication. Those workers are gone now, has your salary gone up?

    The UK is notoriously bad at upward mobility in social classes. You even see this in your democracy (house of lords? Seriously?). The upper classes have a vested interest in keeping the working class down. Sadly, they succeeded in feeding a narrative that focusses the frustration of this to “them foreigners”. They never wanted brexit to win, they just wanted people to think they were fighting for it.
    I mean, yes, EU lorry drivers aren't here, and literally the immediate effect regarding salaries is HGV drivers are earning £15k plus more.

    Based on that, i honestly don't think it's a fabrication to say if the pool of labour is in short supply, both companies and government will pay more.

  16. #29616
    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    I mean, yes, EU lorry drivers aren't here, and literally the immediate effect regarding salaries is HGV drivers are earning £15k plus more.

    Based on that, i honestly don't think it's a fabrication to say if the pool of labour is in short supply, both companies and government will pay more.
    In an effort to attract more people to the job, because they literally don't have enough people to actually do the job... this wasn't an increase out of the goodness of their hearts now those dirty foreigners were gone, or you would have seen it happen months ago.

  17. #29617
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The UK has just left the shithole, now sovereign it's not stuck in it anymore. Meanwhile back at the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation...

    BBC comes under fire for 'pretending driver crisis is all about Brexit' and ignoring the fact shortages have affected countries throughout the world

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...is-Brexit.html

    Reality factcheck for everyone.
    The fact you used a fucking tabloid, known for making shit up, is not really surprising. Because it is about Brexit.

  18. #29618
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    In an effort to attract more people to the job, because they literally don't have enough people to actually do the job... this wasn't an increase out of the goodness of their hearts now those dirty foreigners were gone, or you would have seen it happen months ago.
    Isn't that the whole point of salaries though?

    Attract people to the job?

    Too many applicants = lower the salary to get the best deal.

    Too few applicants = increase the salary to gain more interest.

    Nobody pays any salary out of kindness. They do so to make somebody perform a task.

  19. #29619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korno8k View Post
    Isn't that the whole point of salaries though?

    Attract people to the job?

    Too many applicants = lower the salary to get the best deal.

    Too few applicants = increase the salary to gain more interest.

    Nobody pays any salary out of kindness. They do so to make somebody perform a task.
    Cue a sad trombone for this

  20. #29620
    Update 27th Sep 2021

    Petrol & Food - South England

    My experience yesterday and this morning. If anyone is interested

    No food shortages. Everywhere seems to be fully stocked.

    Petrol stations are open, diesel is still in abundance. E10 unleaded petrol has gone completely. E5 super unleaded is available in most garages, but is in short supply in general.

    I paid £1.43 / litre for super unleaded at a Tesco garage.

    Long queues to get fuel (20 minutes to one hour), most garages have attendants directing the flow of traffic.

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