[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Iliena]

how can you tell?

Bottom right next to Report Post.

[zealo]

Reminder that the mod position is generally along the lines of "you should be a better person, and just not respond to posts you think are blatantly full of bullshit. If they post in a way that looks like they might actually believe their blatant bullshit, we can't infract that because it is their belief. Just put them on ignore, and leave them to keep posting their blatant bullshit."

If he doesn't obviously break a forum rule, he can pretty much do as he pleases.

dribbles probably had the ugliest little smile on his face at someone getting an infraction because of what he posted.

One reason among many for why the moderation on this forum is so poor.

Having the potential motivations of the poster in mind at all when they’re regularly blatantly lying and posting things which are factually not true, is nothing but dereliction against attempting to have any sort of effective moderation going on.

A more seriously run forum would have permanently banned the likes of Dribbles years ago for consistent behaviour like this.

[LeGin v3]

Bottom right next to Report Post.

Ahh... you have to be logged in... there's a little red flag. Learn something new everyday.

But, but, but... aside from the obvious flaws with his posts (baiting, sea-lioning etc.) by his own admission, he's a sex tourist.

Ehrm... #awkward-mod-decisions-to-be-made

Edit...

In fairness, and I don't mean to break forum rules here anyway but positively, mods can't be expected to be arbiters of truth, can they? It'd be easier just to have a global ban on "bad language". Would ensure foul-mouthed degenerates like myself don't start throwing random "cunts" into the discourse willy nilly.

The real problem is not being able to call out disinformation / a troll a troll. Sea-lioning shouldn't be tolerated.

[Iliena]

In fairness, and I don't mean to break forum rules here anyway but positively, mods can't be expected to be arbiters of truth, can they? It'd be easier just to have a global ban on "bad language". Would ensure foul-mouthed degenerates like myself don't start throwing random "cunts" into the discourse willy nilly.

The real problem is not being able to call out disinformation / a troll a troll. Sea-lioning shouldn't be tolerated.

I get what you are saying and in isolation for the odd troll post I agree, but when so many people are debunking what he says constantly, quite often with fact's linked from reputable sources, he totality ignores them or disappears from the thread for a few days to a week.

Then he drops back with fresh new claims about how great Brexit is and totally ignores anything anybody said in response to his previous visit. While using Fact4eu as a source or opinion pieces from rightwing rags as legitimate facts, He hardly ever uses links from more highbrow right wing press as they tend to be less hyperbolic and honest for him to use to farm reactions.

This has been going on since 2017, from his first post:

The mood is hardening in favour of a no deal Brexit.

Every day the news has pictures of European police hospitalising european old age pensioners with batons, as in Catalonia, people realise that if the Brexit vote was to happen in ten years time those same Brussels bully boys could be doing the same to British pensioners in London.

We have had a very very lucky escape and more and more it is looking like no deal is better than any deal.

The tone hasn't changed since then, he is trolling look for reactions plain and simple, its not too much to expect the mod team to add 2+2 when this pattern of behaviour has been going on over such an extended period and has no interested in engaging in a straight and honest conversation about Brexit.

I would be quite happy if they closed this thread in 2020 when we left the EU! But here we still are in 2023 and Brexit is still shit and no sunlit uplands!

[LeGin v3]

/snip

IDD with any of this. I'm not defending Dribbles in any way.

Definitely: my own views have been influenced (I'd argue in a positive way) by posters on this forum.

If that's the case, then there's a genuine argument for prioritising infraction of trolling / sea-lioning etc. over and above penalising ad hominem / bad language etc. The question is how to do so. It requires mods being arbiters of truth, which is impossible.

All that good faith posters can do is to continue to call out lies as they are stated. And to state truths as they become apparent.

This thread should never be closed. It's the ultimate: I told you so.

- - - Updated - - -

Oi - sea lion:

How has Brexit weakened the west?

The EU lost a significant military power and a major contributor to the EU budget. The EU is weaker.

The UK lost economic influence, diplomatic leverage and global influence. The UK is weaker.

The EU was the UK's largest trading partner, and the separation has created barriers, tariffs, and increased costs for businesses on both sides. This has resulted in reduced economic growth, decreased investment, and uncertainty in the European and global markets. Both the EU and the UK are weaker.

Répondez s'il vous plaît

[dribbles]

Oi - sea lion:

Répondez s'il vous plaît

The EU lost a significant military power and a major contributor to the EU budget. The EU is weaker.

The UK lost economic influence, diplomatic leverage and global influence. The UK is weaker.

The EU was the UK's largest trading partner, and the separation has created barriers, tariffs, and increased costs for businesses on both sides. This has resulted in reduced economic growth, decreased investment, and uncertainty in the European and global markets. Both the EU and the UK are weaker.

All of those points you mention Brexit has changed for the better though from a UK pov.

The EU has always relied on NATO for its military strength and defence = no change. The UK no longer contributes to the EU budget = UK stronger.
The UK gained economic independence, sovereignty and global influence = UK stronger. Want to deal with us talk to us, not Brussels.
The EU represents a declining 5% of the world's population, it allowed the UK to trade with the other 95% of the world with permission under EU terms and conditions, effectively the UK had one hand tied behind its back in global trade negotiations. Now free from those EU shackles = UK stronger.

A stronger UK means the west overall is stronger. The EU had their chance to stop Brexit when David Cameron sat down at the negotiating table with them and set out his demands. The fact they refused to entertain them and are now weaker as a result is honestly not my concern.

They always needed us more than we needed them and still do, but as you say and I agree This thread should never be closed. It's the ultimate: I told you so.

[Huehuecoyotl]

All of those points you mention Brexit has changed for the better though from a UK pov.

The EU has always relied on NATO for its military strength and defence = no change. The UK no longer contributes to the EU budget = UK stronger.
The UK gained economic independence, sovereignty and global influence = UK stronger. Want to deal with us talk to us, not Brussels.
The EU represents a declining 5% of the world's population, it allowed the UK to trade with the other 95% of the world with permission under EU terms and conditions, effectively the UK had one hand tied behind its back in global trade negotiations. Now free from those EU shackles = UK stronger.

A stronger UK means the west overall is stronger. The EU had their chance to stop Brexit when David Cameron sat down at the negotiating table with them and set out his demands. The fact they refused to entertain them and are now weaker as a result is honestly not my concern.

They always needed us more than we needed them and still do, but as you say and I agree This thread should never be closed. It's the ultimate: I told you so.

Brexit reduces our trade, and our GDP goes down by 5%.

We sign a deal with the CPTPP that, by the Brexiteer governments own calculations, might add 0.09% to GDP by 2030.

THIS is what you're celebrating. This is the big win that you keep trumpeting. You've chopped off a foot, and are cheering the fact that you've retained a toenail and painted it with a fucking Union Jack.

Most of the "new" trade deals we've signed are on worse terms than we got as part of the EU. The ones that aren't, like NZ and Australia, are damaging to our country and our industries. But we're having to sign them because Brexiteers are desparate for anything they can sell as a win to gullible idiots. And every country we're negotiating with knows that.

As ever, you've got nothing, and what little you do have you try and misrepresent. Bad faith, as always.

[Fuiking]

I get what you are saying and in isolation for the odd troll post I agree, but when so many people are debunking what he says constantly, quite often with fact's linked from reputable sources, he totality ignores them or disappears from the thread for a few days to a week.

Then he drops back with fresh new claims about how great Brexit is and totally ignores anything anybody said in response to his previous visit. While using Fact4eu as a source or opinion pieces from rightwing rags as legitimate facts, He hardly ever uses links from more highbrow right wing press as they tend to be less hyperbolic and honest for him to use to farm reactions.

This has been going on since 2017, from his first post:


The tone hasn't changed since then, he is trolling look for reactions plain and simple, its not too much to expect the mod team to add 2+2 when this pattern of behaviour has been going on over such an extended period and has no interested in engaging in a straight and honest conversation about Brexit.

I would be quite happy if they closed this thread in 2020 when we left the EU! But here we still are in 2023 and Brexit is still shit and no sunlit uplands!

That first post was such a big lie, also it can technically sow hatred towards a number of nations and organisations right? Bannable offense... right there.. but the moderation on here is hilariously bad most of the time.. I have said things I would have gotten a nice timeout or ban at any place but managed to get through it.. (my utter hate during the covid years a prime example)

[Nymrohd]

That first post was such a big lie, also it can technically sow hatred towards a number of nations and organisations right? Bannable offense... right there.. but the moderation on here is hilariously bad most of the time.. I have said things I would have gotten a nice timeout or ban at any place but managed to get through it.. (my utter hate during the covid years a prime example)

I mean I get the EU is not a country and the rule is specifically for county bashing. But this is exactly what he does in every post. I remember early on with the referendum and after plenty of people got infracted for UK bashing and rightfully so.

[Mazza]

The EU had their chance to stop Brexit when David Cameron sat down at the negotiating table with them and set out his demands.

... You do realise that Brexit has always been more about UK domestic politics than EU-UK relations right? The ONLY reason Cameron held the Brexit referendum was because it was an election promise he used to win a general election, because Farage and his stooges made it a populist election theme and were eating voters from his right wing.

What am I saying, of course you don't realise...