[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Triks]

They probaly think it is a problem akin to the commute in London.
At least Johnson seems firmly convinced.

When will this political theater end?

[Noradin]

When will this political theater end?

The show must go on!
Bread and games.

[zealo]

You don't know? Well why stop there, here's an idea - how about tattooing a unique ID number on every EU citizens forearm, they tried that back in the 1930's didn't they? Look where big brother governance led to that time...

Is this post just another roundabout way to imply the EU is all Germans nazis?

[Deleted]

When will this political theater end?

There was some hope shit would hit the fan yesterday, but doesn't seem to be happening (though the meeting wasn't a public one so) - There is another time for impact in June, when there is a council meeting (the meeting on the 18th was in regards to this meeting).
But it may last until October, because that's when it needs to be finished for ratification - So only a few more months of reality denial.

- I was wrong, the shit has hit the fan:
The EU has comprehensively rejected British proposals for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland in a move which will cast serious doubt on the UK’s ability to leave the customs union, The Telegraph has learned.

Senior EU diplomatic sources said that Mrs May’s plan for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland was subjected to a “systematic and forensic annihilation” this week at a meeting between senior EU officials and Olly Robbins, the UK’s lead Brexit negotiator.

“It was a detailed and forensic rebuttal,” added the source who was directly briefed on the meeting in Brussels on Wednesday. “It was made clear that none of the UK’s customs options will work. None of them.”

[Deleted]

I've never understood the problem with ID Cards, I can never work out where peoples problems stem from.

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There was some hope shit would hit the fan yesterday, but doesn't seem to be happening (though the meeting wasn't a public one so) - There is another time for impact in June, when there is a council meeting (the meeting on the 18th was in regards to this meeting).
But it may last until October, because that's when it needs to be finished for ratification - So only a few more months of reality denial.

- I was wrong, the shit has hit the fan:
The EU has comprehensively rejected British proposals for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland in a move which will cast serious doubt on the UK’s ability to leave the customs union, The Telegraph has learned.

Senior EU diplomatic sources said that Mrs May’s plan for avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland was subjected to a “systematic and forensic annihilation” this week at a meeting between senior EU officials and Olly Robbins, the UK’s lead Brexit negotiator.

“It was a detailed and forensic rebuttal,” added the source who was directly briefed on the meeting in Brussels on Wednesday. “It was made clear that none of the UK’s customs options will work. None of them.”

Well thats what happens when you knock up a plan for the future of the nation in a weekend.

[Slant]

Where is the difference between fingerprint recognition, facial recognition and iris recognition in your world and why does it matter that fingerprint information isn't stored in the microchips?

The basic criticism is that the Government will get a pretty complete fingerprint database of its population as a side effect.

[Mayhem]

The basic criticism is that the Government will get a pretty complete fingerprint database of its population as a side effect.

Yeah, so?

/10char

[Slant]

Yeah, so?

/10char

It's usually a good rule of thumb to never give anyone your privacy data unless you absolutely have to. I'm surprised you don't acknowledge the one valid criticism dribbles has brought up since the inception of his account.

In all seriousness, I like our ID cards and think they are necessary. But they're meant as basic identification. What's the purpose of fingerprints? Do you seriously expect doors to start using fingerprint scanners? Or to "sign" your online documents with a fingerprint? Do you have a fingerprint reader at home? Do you think the Government has them installed in their public service buildings? What's the point?

This is even ignoring just how ridiculously easy it is to copy your fingerprint and use it. It's not just a matter of principle. As Facebook has absolutely demonstrated, once your data is out in the wild, it will get used and sold. Don't make it too easy for them.

[dribbles]

Yeah, so?

/10char

Because it is just another modern day version of "papers please" where every government busy body has access to your personal information. From your neighbour who just happens to be a council refuse collector to possibly foreign hackers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_papers,_please

There was some hope shit would hit the fan yesterday, but doesn't seem to be happening (though the meeting wasn't a public one so) - There is another time for impact in June, when there is a council meeting (the meeting on the 18th was in regards to this meeting).
But it may last until October, because that's when it needs to be finished for ratification - So only a few more months of reality denial.

- I was wrong, the shit has hit the fan:

That's some good shit there though from where I am sitting, just they haven't got until October. UK parliament shuts down for summer from July and MP's don't return until mid September. They have a few weeks at best, soon it will be days Goodie!

[Mayhem]

It's usually a good rule of thumb to never give anyone your privacy data unless you absolutely have to. I'm surprised you don't acknowledge the one valid criticism dribbles has brought up since the inception of his account.

In all seriousness, I like our ID cards and think they are necessary. But they're meant as basic identification. What's the purpose of fingerprints? Do you seriously expect doors to start using fingerprint scanners? Or to "sign" your online documents with a fingerprint? Do you have a fingerprint reader at home? Do you think the Government has them installed in their public service buildings? What's the point?

This is even ignoring just how ridiculously easy it is to copy your fingerprint and use it. It's not just a matter of principle. As Facebook has absolutely demonstrated, once your data is out in the wild, it will get used and sold. Don't make it too easy for them.

Am i missing something? The UK passports have other information stored on their chips for iris and facial recognition, don't they?

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Because it is just another modern day version of "papers please" where every government busy body has access to your personal information. From your neighbour who just happens to be a council refuse collector to possibly foreign hackers.

You haven't answered my other questions, apparently your government sucks at collecting personal data, so i don't think you have to worry.

[Kiri]

It's usually a good rule of thumb to never give anyone your privacy data unless you absolutely have to. I'm surprised you don't acknowledge the one valid criticism dribbles has brought up since the inception of his account.

In all seriousness, I like our ID cards and think they are necessary. But they're meant as basic identification. What's the purpose of fingerprints? Do you seriously expect doors to start using fingerprint scanners? Or to "sign" your online documents with a fingerprint? Do you have a fingerprint reader at home? Do you think the Government has them installed in their public service buildings? What's the point?

This is even ignoring just how ridiculously easy it is to copy your fingerprint and use it. It's not just a matter of principle. As Facebook has absolutely demonstrated, once your data is out in the wild, it will get used and sold. Don't make it too easy for them.

Just answering this because it seems to have been lost in Dribbles' dribbles.
Even with the proposal linked earlier, fingerprints and biometric data on ID cards remain optional for normal ID cards. You only need them for any ID card that can be used to travel to and work in other EU countries, i.e. be used instead of an EU passport that you would otherwise need. The whole thing is mostly based on minimum security standards in aviation, where biometrics are used in order to ensure that an ID holder is truly who he claims to be. Fingerprints and facial structure simply are things that no, say, terrorist could easily fake in order to impersonate you.

[Deleted]

The basic criticism is that the Government will get a pretty complete fingerprint database of its population as a side effect.

But not searchable - Your fingerprint is stored on the card, and since your fingers are stored on you, they can always be validated.
There is no need for a database.

[dribbles]

Just answering this because it seems to have been lost in Dribbles' dribbles.
Even with the proposal linked earlier, fingerprints and biometric data on ID cards remain optional for normal ID cards. You only need them for any ID card that can be used to travel to and work in other EU countries, i.e. be used instead of an EU passport that you would otherwise need. The whole thing is mostly based on minimum security standards in aviation, where biometrics are used in order to ensure that an ID holder is truly who he claims to be. Fingerprints and facial structure simply are things that no, say, terrorist could easily fake in order to impersonate you.

You are missing the point in that what was once optional too easily under big brother (especially the EU type) can become compulsory. Where does it stop after facial recognition, iris scans and fingerprints? Perhaps you would be ok that in the case of a car accident your medical records were stored on it too? Organ donation status again why not? What about any criminal records?

Tax affairs, Bank details, Travel insurance, Supermarket loyalty cards, TV and internet habits and so on and so on. All under the watchful eye of your government.

Surely you have a personal line to cross with the privacy issues that creates in storing it all on one microchip that in the end you are in the future legally required to carry.

[Mormolyce]

Good thing the UK is leaving the big evil government of the EU that wants to snoop on its citizens.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...oopers-charter

Oh, wait.

[Deleted]

You are missing the point in that what was once optional too easily under big brother

What entity struck down the UK's spy charter?
Think it begins with an E, and ends with a U.

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An slightly off-topic but mostly related story appeared in my news feed, and it's Juicy, it's regarding money laundering, and the UK's inability to combat it (Primarily because they don't want to, because it would cost the City money).
I will quote this bit:

In an official response dated 30 March 2017, a government official noted that Lycamobile is “a large multinational company” with “vast assets at their disposal” and would be “extremely unlikely to agree to having their premises searched”.

The letter, from the team at HMRC that handles law enforcement requests from foreign governments, continued: “It is of note that they are the biggest corporate donor to the Conservative party led by Prime Minister Theresa May and donated 1.25m Euros to the Prince Charles Trust in 2012.”

Daming.

When BuzzFeed News first approached HMRC to ask about its response to the French request, the agency’s senior press officer strongly denied that Lycamobile’s donations would ever be cited as a reason not to conduct criminal raids. “No HMRC official would ever write such a letter,” he said. “This is the United Kingdom for God’s sake, not some third world banana republic where the organs of state are in hock to some sort of kleptocracy.”

Article 7 proceedings when?
The bit on this one that's on topic, is everything the UK says about co-operation on financial regulation, security, and data protection, customs operations, on fucking everything, since they are clearly some kind of tin-pot kleptocratic banana republic.

[Mayhem]

You are missing the point in that what was once optional too easily under big brother (especially the EU type) can become compulsory. Where does it stop after facial recognition, iris scans and fingerprints? Perhaps you would be ok that in the case of a car accident your medical records were stored on it too? Organ donation status again why not? What about any criminal records?

Tax affairs, Bank details, Travel insurance, Supermarket loyalty cards, TV and internet habits and so on and so on. All under the watchful eye of your government.

Surely you have a personal line to cross with the privacy issues that creates in storing it all on one microchip that in the end you are in the future legally required to carry.

Woooohoooo all aboard the slippery sloap!

Still waiting for an answer champ. Come on, you have to be proud of what's currently happening in the UK the bastion of freedom, right?

[Pann]

An slightly off-topic but mostly related story appeared in my news feed, and it's Juicy, it's regarding money laundering, and the UK's inability to combat it (Primarily because they don't want to, because it would cost the City money).
I will quote this bit:

Daming.

Article 7 proceedings when?
The bit on this one that's on topic, is everything the UK says about co-operation on financial regulation, security, and data protection, customs operations, on fucking everything, since they are clearly some kind of tin-pot kleptocratic banana republic.

I am shocked that you missed off the actual reason, the request not containing sufficient information for the search warrant to be obtained, for not searching the company.

Quite frankly it is laughable to suggest that HMRC would not investigate due to Tory party donations.

[Deleted]

I am shocked that you missed off the actual reason, the request not containing sufficient information for the search warrant to be obtained, for not searching the company.

Quite frankly it is laughable to suggest that HMRC would not investigate due to Tory party donations.

is it?

The letter, from the team at HMRC that handles law enforcement requests from foreign governments, continued: “It is of note that they are the biggest corporate donor to the Conservative party led by Prime Minister Theresa May and donated 1.25m Euros to the Prince Charles Trust in 2012.”

They said it, no I - The HMRC said it.

[Slant]

But not searchable - Your fingerprint is stored on the card, and since your fingers are stored on you, they can always be validated.
There is no need for a database.

How do you think they get on the card? How likely is it that some incompetent clerk is able to tell that not deleting them is not an option? Nah, mistakes will be made. And for a minimal gain, too. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for using whatever is available to achieve the goal, ie. identifying the card holders. But try to use the methods that are least invasive to people's privacy. And I don't see any improvement over having fingerprints on the card. Police can't use them at all for standard identification (ie. not a criminal case), the authorities don't even have the tools to read them. And to get a legally valid degree of proof, you can't just swipe a print and be done with it in a second.

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And that is a problem how?

EDIT: nm I see you made an answer already.

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It's mostly an American to be extremely skeptical of anything the state/government does. (which is why most conspiracy theories also stem from there).

Personally I have no issue with this in a well run Democracy.


YES to all of those - in Denmark it's already planned to use fingerprint scanners instead of Credit Cards in a few years.

Then that may make sense for you. Does it need to be an EU wide regulation? If so, start fucking introducing the future in Germany. Because for all the money we're paying, I see jack shit of "future" here. Some rural areas don't even have proper broadband internet. And don't get me started on a severe lack of standardisation of those fingerprint scanners. Or availability.

[ranzino]

for fingerprints and biometric passports: germany knows my two index fingers, nothing more