View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #4901
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I see this as a stumbling block, although not an insurmountable one, I think it is important to take in account that it is common in negotiations to say that A cannot have x in the hope that A will offer y in return and that it is possible that what is publicly stated is not necessarily the same as what is thought internally.

    My point is that the UK's membership of certain EU agencies, of which the EASA is just one, is a direct benefit to both the UK and EU therefore they will both (hopefully) work towards to achieving this end. I suspect the most likely outcome is that the UK will be given something that looks similar to membership, costs the same as membership, has less say than membership but is called something completely different to satisfy the Brexit headbangers.
    To all EU agencies? Well that's a possibility, sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  2. #4902
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    To all EU agencies? Well that's a possibility, sure.
    I am not ruling out any possibilities, including it all going pear shaped, at the moment.

  3. #4903
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    The EU is facing increasing pressures
    Totally man, that's why the UK has given in on everything so far.
    If the EU was a true economic union they would want to make a quick break as soon as possible. Current EU has drifted away so much from the current economic union paradigm
    No one outside the UK has ever been under the delusion that the EU ever was or was ever intended to be a 'economic union'.
    that it is trying to legislate its way to economic prosperity which is preposterous.
    I think you will find that outside a legal framework to regulate the economy, there is no such thing as 'prosperity' - If you don't believe me visit Wakanda Somalia.

  4. #4904
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Firstly that does not make the point that the UK will have to leave the EASA because it will not accept ECJ oversight relevant or correct.
    Any EU regulation, that include founding regulations for any EU body, is subject to oversight and review by the ECJ.
    Here is one of EASA's founding papers. I will not dig out all of them for all agencies but all the Union's legal acts are subject to it, by status.
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...R0216-20160126
    you can just search the doc but points 19, 26 and 36 in the recital mention it already.

  5. #4905
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Any EU regulation, that include founding regulations for any EU body, is subject to oversight and review by the ECJ.
    Here is one of EASA's founding papers. I will not dig out all of them for all agencies but all the Union's legal acts are subject to it, by status.
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...R0216-20160126
    you can just search the doc but points 19, 26 and 36 in the recital mention it already.
    I have not once made the argument that the ECJ does not oversee EU agencies.

  6. #4906
    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinP View Post
    Totally man, that's why the UK has given in on everything so far.
    No one outside the UK has ever been under the delusion that the EU ever was or was ever intended to be a 'economic union'.

    I think you will find that outside a legal framework to regulate the economy, there is no such thing as 'prosperity' - If you don't believe me visit Wakanda Somalia.
    If Somalia is one extreme end then Europe is on the extreme of the other end. There is plenty of room in the middle which is what most Western countries not in Europe precisely do.

    UK hasn't given in on anything of significance so far which is why the longer this drags on the better it is for the UK. The EU has the strongest position at the start but their position weakens as this drags on. It also gives the UK greater confidence that they can actually make Brexit happen when many were unsure that it would actually work. The Brexiters were called dreamers, idealists and very optimistic. But these days the Brexiters seem to be the most realistic to economic sovereignty being returned to the UK.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    The paper bear would be stuck in Poland, would be super lucky to even see Berlin if it was just EU vs Russia.

    Russia is 20 years technologically behind at their best. Training is a joke compared to western methods.
    That isn't true in terms of technology. Polish military is well trained and have some of the best tank crews in the world but they simply don't have the numbers or quality to counter anything realistically. Germany is simply not interested in having an army in general which leaves France, Italy, Greece and the Nederlands.

    Russia, like China have modernized their forces the last 20 years and have adapted new methods for urban conflict.
    Battle for Abilities = WoD 2.0


    Quote Originally Posted by Rekz View Post
    I'll trust blizzard over your assessment. They've been doing this for a long time. It may very well be that your class is nerfed in which case, your class will feel as if it doesn't work correctly.

  7. #4907
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    If Somalia is one extreme end then Europe is on the extreme of the other end. There is plenty of room in the middle which is what most Western countries not in Europe precisely do.

    UK hasn't given in on anything of significance so far which is why the longer this drags on the better it is for the UK. The EU has the strongest position at the start but their position weakens as this drags on. It also gives the UK greater confidence that they can actually make Brexit happen when many were unsure that it would actually work. The Brexiters were called dreamers, idealists and very optimistic. But these days the Brexiters seem to be the most realistic to economic sovereignty being returned to the UK.
    Do they really? There still is no solution for a whole slew of issues, including the Irish border one. Nothing has changed about that in the past few weeks, with both sides only making minor concessions. Brexiters still claim that they can get the benefits with none of the responsibilities. Well, aside from people like Reese-Mogg, whose position is basically 'hardest Brexit asap, problems will just cease to exist if we stop talking about them'. I am still waiting for a Brexiter to give me a working concept for the Irish Border alone that fulfills all the criteria:
    1) No hard border between the Irelands or within the UK
    2) Full economic sovereignty --> not part of the single market
    3) Would be acceptable to the EU and SI in particular
    I just haven't.

  8. #4908
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    I am still waiting for a Brexiter to give me a working concept for the Irish Border alone that fulfills all the criteria...I just haven't.
    maybe this will ease your concerns then?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/sta...86105793261568
    Sky News understands non-disclosure agreements the Government is asking businesses in the UK to sign include a plan not to enforce a customs border if no deal is reached on Brexit
    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/brexi...unnel-11291767
    "The scenarios described to Sky News have been broadly interpreted by the industry as "hard Brexit", "soft Brexit" and "no deal". It is the last scenario that has raised the most eyebrows in industry.

    This is what we call the 'Throw Open the Borders option,'" said one operator. The scenario involves the UK on day one of Brexit unilaterally deciding not to enforce customs checks, and other border checks, and presuming that a reciprocal approach will be taken by the European Union, and thus at least temporarily maintaining a non-negotiated form of frictionless trade in goods.
    amusingly, this story was confirmed by the UK Transport Secretary on TV soon afterwards -
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43428802
    It comes after Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said there won't be any border checks at Dover when Britain leaves the EU in March next year.

    He said it would be "utterly unrealistic" to have checks and trade would be managed electronically.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2018-03-17 at 12:26 AM.

  9. #4909
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    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rthern-ireland

    interesting weekend ahead.

    Ahead of three days of talks on the issue this weekend, EU officials said the British government would have to reconsider the possibility of Northern Ireland effectively staying in the customs union and single market, a position it has previously rejected.

    The warning was echoed by the Northern Ireland affairs committee in Westminster, which published a report saying there was no evidence that a hi-tech alternative to a fortified border could be made to work in the time available.


    ....

    “The only way to avoid a visible border on the island of Ireland, and to also avoid an economic border across the Irish Sea, is for the whole of the UK to stay in the customs union and the single market.”


    about Dover border:

    A study by Imperial College London found two extra minutes of checks could more than triple existing queues.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-border-pledge
    Last edited by ranzino; 2018-03-17 at 12:32 AM.

  10. #4910
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    If Somalia is one extreme end then Europe is on the extreme of the other end. There is plenty of room in the middle which is what most Western countries not in Europe precisely do.
    There is about 45 countries that count as 'Western' - 27 in the EU, five that want to join, and 7 that are in the EU orbit.
    Make of that what you will.
    UK hasn't given in on anything of significance so far which is why the longer this drags on the better it is for the UK.
    Have you read the backstop option?
    In any case, the UK is up on the clock not the EU.
    The EU has the strongest position at the start but their position weakens as this drags on
    I think you will find that the EU enjoys escalation domination with everyone upon this earth, excluding the US.
    It also gives the UK greater confidence that they can actually make Brexit happen when many were unsure that it would actually work. The Brexiters were called dreamers, idealists and very optimistic. But these days the Brexiters seem to be the most realistic to economic sovereignty being returned to the UK.
    Realistic?
    - Just this fucking day, one of the fucktards Transport Secretary Chris Grayling Seriously suggested that the UK wasn't going to do any checks on any goods comming from the EU - In the vain hope that the EU would reciprocate and thus 'solve' the Dover and Euro-tunnel border issues.
    Last edited by mmocfd561176b9; 2018-03-17 at 02:34 AM.

  11. #4911
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    The Europeans had and have no choice but to support their UK paymasters.
    The... f... what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  12. #4912
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    The... f... what?
    Slap anything on the side of a bus and Dribbles will believe it as fact.

  13. #4913
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    The... f... what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Slap anything on the side of a bus and Dribbles will believe it as fact.
    Rather treat his posts as the slow unraveling of a tragicomic character in an absurdist play. It gains entertainment value.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  14. #4914
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    maybe this will ease your concerns then?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/sta...86105793261568


    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/brexi...unnel-11291767


    amusingly, this story was confirmed by the UK Transport Secretary on TV soon afterwards -
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43428802

    That is only remotely feasible if the UK stays in some kind of union with the EU. If they do not, or worse, if they explicitly fall back on WTO rules, then Britain can be sued if it enforces any kind of customs border with other WTO members from their side, while said members can do it from their side.
    The EU, if they are not in a free trade union, would face the same issue. In order to protect themselves from said problem, they would have to enforce the border, even if Britain is not.
    This is not a new idea. All it really amounts to is the UK being able to say "look, we did not want a hard border, but the EU wants it. Look at how evil they are" to the Brexit base, who will happily believe it. Because "the EU is evil" is pretty much their paradigm.

    In either event, this idea could work if the EU and UK stay in a free trade area, but that is heavily contested. Mostly because it amounts to the UK wanting to be inside said area, but not to agree to the EU's terms, due to the Brexiters. The idea only works as a solution to the Ireland issue in the case of a soft brexit. In a har Brexit, it is little more than an attempt to shift blame to the EU.

  15. #4915
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Rather treat his posts as the slow unraveling of a tragicomic character in an absurdist play. It gains entertainment value.
    He's an acquired taste, however. At times, he totally loses all my suspense of disbelief.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  16. #4916
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    He's an acquired taste, however. At times, he totally loses all my suspense of disbelief.
    Really, it's about building context. Dribbles would fit perfectly in an absurdist play. There are vaudeville elements, constant cliches and nonsense wordplay, a cyclical and ever expansive argumentation and a constant dismissal of realism all as a response to political turmoil and social upheaval. It's just clear tragicomedy.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  17. #4917
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Really, it's about building context. Dribbles would fit perfectly in an absurdist play. There are vaudeville elements, constant cliches and nonsense wordplay, a cyclical and ever expansive argumentation and a constant dismissal of realism all as a response to political turmoil and social upheaval. It's just clear tragicomedy.
    Nah, someone explained it. The whole Brexiteer movement makes a lot of sense when you reverse the foundation and pretend that the EU is kicking the UK out. And all of it suddenly makes sense. All the complaining, all the defiant claims, all the bickering and whinging. Everything.

    You just have to do that tiny step and pretend the EU is kicking the UK out instead of the other way around. Do it, it's funny how your perception changes.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  18. #4918
    I am Murloc!
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    ooh, THIS is pure golden and platin

    Disagreement over Brexit has split the main parliamentary committee charged with scrutinising the UK’s departure from the EU after a majority of its members concluded that the day of exit may have to be delayed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lect-committee

    will you cancel this mountain of charade called Brexit already ? or does UK expect the EU dying from laughter now ?

  19. #4919
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Nah, someone explained it. The whole Brexiteer movement makes a lot of sense when you reverse the foundation and pretend that the EU is kicking the UK out. And all of it suddenly makes sense. All the complaining, all the defiant claims, all the bickering and whinging. Everything.

    You just have to do that tiny step and pretend the EU is kicking the UK out instead of the other way around. Do it, it's funny how your perception changes.
    Yeah I remember that article, it did make sense in that absurd context

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    ooh, THIS is pure golden and platin

    Disagreement over Brexit has split the main parliamentary committee charged with scrutinising the UK’s departure from the EU after a majority of its members concluded that the day of exit may have to be delayed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...lect-committee

    will you cancel this mountain of charade called Brexit already ? or does UK expect the EU dying from laughter now ?
    Poor Dribbles, not getting Brexit just yet:*(
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #4920
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    ...

    Poor Dribbles, not getting Brexit just yet:*(
    UK would need the consent of everybody else to postpone their project. Or crash out with whatever is negotiated until then, which will turn out ugly for them.
    Or become honest and cancel it.

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