[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pann]

weakened is to small a term IMHO. do you really think he would step forward as PM, well knowing he cannot succeed ?

You're getting way ahead of yourself there.

[Triks]

It's the other way around. IPA is a strong, more hoppy ale. You'll find more flavors, but they're also much more bitter and a bit stronger than regular ales. They're more interesting beers most of the time but your palate might need time to get used to it. Don't drink the whole palette immediately.
edit: you might want to try commercial German and Belgian beers if you need a change. Germans are plain but wonderfully crafted. Belgian tend to be stronger but have some nice lightness while having some kick and spice to them.
Back on topic. The EU won't miss British beers.

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How is France this time of the year ?

Most of the beer that we get is German and the ones that we produce are made with German and Czech recipes. Like I said, I love pilsners but I need a change. I also like Belgian beer from what I've tried but the whole IPA thing sounded too interesting to pass on. I am definetely not going to drink it all in one go. I will have a couple with my friends when we get together this week and I will have one by myself to figure out how to pair it with different foods. I am not going to lie, I am quite excited about it!

[Deleted]

Have to think May is now setup to do something big. Resign? 2nd ref? Extended transition?

The government is exploding. Coalition of Chaos.

[dribbles]

Well the amendment was carried, bye bye white paper. @dribbles must be happy.

To say I am enjoying our new defacto PM Rees Mogg would be an understatement.

[Slant]

To say I am enjoying our new defacto PM Rees Mogg would be an understatement.

What you're enjoying is to see the Government of your nation self destruct. That's disgusting. @Pann tell me again how I should not wish him to suffer from the consequences of what he wishes for? Tell me how I'm the scary dude here... he's pretty much wanking off to people losing their livelihood in the process of this.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Thanks for the detailed reply. First all I am sorry to hear about what happened to your other half and I hope that things work out for you both.

I’m drinking too much! But, in fairness, that can’t be blamed completely on Brexit. But, no, life isn’t is as straight forward as it was.

I must say that I am not comfortable with labelling those who voted differently as stupid, racist or whatever. I feel this is one of the major reasons why remain lost the referendum and has failed any headway in bringing leave supporters around to the realities of Brexit.

Sadly, there was indeed a significant racist and not-entirely-healthy nationalist undercurrent in the campaigning by Leave leading up to the referendum. If the Daily Hate *cough* Mail spews racist bile, which it did / does, I think you have to call it for what it is.

Yes, sure, people voted Leave and Remain for different reasons, but the reason I pick upon the Sunderland racist gran demographic is because, yes, it does exist. And, yes, they do get my back up. Countless governments have courted the grey vote because generations of the young haven’t bothered to vote. As a result, the grey vote is disproportionately catered for in terms of policy.

I read the link you provided earlier and it was that prompted my question. The worst case scenario in the link is a fall back to WTO terms which may result in a 4% reduction in GDP growth over a ten year period. To put this in perspective current UK GDP is in the region of £2trillion per annum if we say for argument sake it will grow by 10% in the next ten years to £2.2T under the worst case scenario GDP would grow to £2.11T in ten years time.

I’m not following. If you click on the pull-down menu (purple, centre left) and select “Chart: GDP Growth Rate” it displays a value of -44.7%? “Chart: GDP per capita” -$3,362?

Doesn’t really matter, I could have linked any one of hundreds of studies. The vast majority of which predict overwhelmingly negative outcomes.

I appreciate that this is no consolation to your situation and in no way am I trying to trivialise your family's experience nor am I trying to paint this as a price worth paying for Brexit but it is far from the doom and gloom situation that many try to portray it as.

Well, this is the thing isn’t it…. collateral damage. You know, fundamentally, I’m no fan of the EU in its current form. But the knock-on economic cluster-fuck of this isn’t going to be averaged out. Specific people / families etc. will be hit. The question is can Kemi Badenoch cope with my anger should I turn up at her office with my pitch fork?

Enjoy your gin, made in England I hope, where else after all.

Ha! The irony is that I agree with Noradin: my favourite tipple atm is Monkey 47…. from the Black Forest.



Also, very much liking:



There is a separate thread in this, though.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Here is the thing about such numbers. THe obvious context they should be put in is this: How many people would this GDP reduction move from lower middle class to poor. How many to homeless? How many are too many?

Que? Je non comprends pas.

[Slant]

Can't wait to see the debate in the Commons if it's made public. Clause 37 is what I found while skimming the Guardian... it forbids NI from creating a separate customs territory from the UK. That's one creative solution to the Irish problem down the shitter. Now it's either the UK enters the customs union, with all of the four freedoms, or it's going to violate GFA.

How can they not see this? It's hard to understand that these are accomplished people, serious politicians.

[Slant]

You are missing the point. They WANT to violate the GFA.

Doubt that, unless they dig sending troops to deal with the Troubles 2.0 and have more bombings on British soil.

[Kallisto]

Doubt that, unless they dig sending troops to deal with the Troubles 2.0 and have more bombings on British soil.

The Tories have never liked the GFA and like NHS have looked for ways to undermine it.

[dribbles]

Can't wait to see the debate in the Commons if it's made public. Clause 37 is what I found while skimming the Guardian... it forbids NI from creating a separate customs territory from the UK. That's one creative solution to the Irish problem down the shitter. Now it's either the UK enters the customs union, with all of the four freedoms, or it's going to violate GFA.

How can they not see this? It's hard to understand that these are accomplished people, serious politicians.

They see very clearly. It is a deliberate attempt by Rees-Mogg to sabotage the Theresa May Chequers proposal and to make agreement on the white paper with the EU impossible ergo hard brexit.

Well done and three cheers Jacob, it worked.

[Slant]

The Tories have never liked the GFA and like NHS have looked for ways to undermine it.

Well, they are a sovereign nation. They can fuck themselves up in any manner they see fit. But I won't have anyone blame the EU for that. This is another case of people warning them well ahead of time and them ignoring it.

[Nigel Tufnel]

What I am saying is, yes a small reduction in GDP may sound like something people can ignore because it looks so minor. But inevitably it means that households that are now just over the poverty line will slide further down, and households with no financial security may break apart completely. It's the argument to use when talking about how those numbers seem so minor.

Sorry... ok... yes, following now

But, I don't think Pann's numbers re. GDP growth are accurate in relation to the study I linked (and this is just one of, literally, hundreds). If you click the right buttons, the page displays the correct output according to the data input.

E.g., WTO organisation rules scenario: -44.7% GDP growth after 10 years

So – the numbers aren’t minor at all. WTO scenario isn’t a minor inconvenience – it’s a complete calamity.

Look, chaps – I don’t care. I’m not an economist. We’re splitting hairs here. No-one fucking knows. We’re pissing in the dark.

My feeling is the economic outcome is going to be very negative. Mr D and co. think not.

My own personal experience thus far has been negative.

It’s too early to tell.

However, what I’m getting at is this:

a) If you work for DVLA in Swansea, life carries on. Hurrah for the State and job security!
b) If you work at Nissan in Sunderland, you’re fucked. Too bad. It’s Universal Credit for you.
c) If you’re super rich it doesn’t matter! Grats! Ideologise away. BoJo and Mr D I’m looking at you.
d) If you don’t / can’t work and rely on the State as a safety net, you’re fucked. Less taxes = not much fun.

[dribbles]

However, what I’m getting at is this:

a) If you work for DVLA in Swansea, life carries on. Hurrah for the State and job security!
b) If you work at Nissan in Sunderland, you’re fucked. Too bad. It’s Universal Credit for you.
c) If you’re super rich it doesn’t matter! Grats! Ideologise away. BoJo and Mr D I’m looking at you.
d) If you don’t / can’t work and rely on the State as a safety net, you’re fucked. Less taxes = not much fun.

Well

a) Put those wasters in Swansea on the dole and stick a penny on petrol in duty, save the country a fortune.
b) Nissan will still be here, the £ devaluation means UK manufactured goods are cheap to buy and export now.
c) True
d) In a country of virtually full employment, if you are on the social get off your arse and work - the alternative is not meant to be fun.

and Nigel with the amount of Gin you drink if it had been the English variety, several more in the UK would have been employed right now, rather than those in Germany.

[Nigel Tufnel]

and Nigel with the amount of Gin you drink if it had been the English variety, several more in the UK would have been employed right now, rather than those in Germany.

touché..... touché

I do, also, drink a lot of English gin.

A favourite being:



But protectionism (in the broader scheme of things) isn't going to help your FAANG shares!

I think the real question here is in regard to category b)

Devaluation of sterling helping exports in the short term vs lack of access to the single market and tariffs in the long term???

You're an optimist, Mr D.

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Fuck

That gin IMG is a lot bigger than I intended it to be... sorry

Can you alter the size?

[Slant]

Fuck

That gin IMG is a lot bigger than I intended it to be... sorry

Can you alter the size?

It's okay mate. We accept you with all your flaws, even your alcohol addiction. :P

[Kallisto]

a) If you work for DVLA in Swansea, life carries on. Hurrah for the State and job security!
b) If you work at Nissan in Sunderland, you’re fucked. Too bad. It’s Universal Credit for you.
c) If you’re super rich it doesn’t matter! Grats! Ideologise away. BoJo and Mr D I’m looking at you.
d) If you don’t / can’t work and rely on the State as a safety net, you’re fucked. Less taxes = not much fun.

Universal credit? More like "Hey we have a job for you that's 100 miles away, with no public transport links and you don't have a car. Well too bad take it or you get nothing for not going for a job that's at an unreasonable distance."

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d) In a country of virtually full employment, if you are on the social get off your arse and work - the alternative is not meant to be fun.

and Nigel with the amount of Gin you drink if it had been the English variety, several more in the UK would have been employed right now, rather than those in Germany.

British Gin is the worst and sensible people don't give a fuck where the food is from, only if it is good. Only braindead nationalists care about it being "British this, British that."

Also can't = not being able to. WE don't have anything close to full employment here.

[Mayhem]

b) Nissan will still be here, the £ devaluation means UK manufactured goods are cheap to buy and export now.

Yeah, without customs in place, that'll work wonders. Also, without trade agreements in place, that means WTO rules, you're going to be cheaper than WTO tariffed goods?

[Floopa]

no deal brexit 95% happening now.

just a matter of time before a GE is called : )

[Slant]

no deal brexit 95% happening now.

just a matter of time before a GE is called : )

You're almost as disgusting as Dribs, you know that?