View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #7461
    What a circus.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  2. #7462
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This continues to sound like it's all thoroughly well planned and going swimmingly.
    Shh! No time for that! Theresa May is trying to downplay the departure's effect by saying, well, it won't be the end of the world.

    May’s comments appeared to cast doubt on recent statements by Britain’s Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond, who warned that the country would be forced to borrow over $100 billion if it doesn’t reach a deal with the EU, a scenario that would lead to an inevitable economic stagnation. May instead invoked the recent statements from World Trade Organization Director-General Roberto Azevedo, who suggested that a no-deal scenario would not necessarily be catastrophic.

    What the government is doing is putting in place the preparation such that if we are in that situation, we can make a success of it, just as we can make a success of a good deal,” May told reporters at the launch of a three-day trip across Africa.

    The U.K. will officially leave the EU on March 29, 2019, and it is looking increasingly likely that the country will be forced to leave without a deal in place. On Thursday, the government published 25 contingency plans, known as “technical notices,” to warn businesses about how to cope with Brexit in the case an agreement is not reached. Every industry, from airlines to pharmaceuticals, will be impacted by the change—and almost all will see a rise in costs.

    Goods entering the U.K. from Europe would need import declarations and customs checks,
    and London will need to begin preparing its own food labels, among a litany of other new procedural requirements. Questions remain about cross-border data sharing and whether the U.K. will still have access to the official EU judicial database. Many have warned that the country is unprepared to deal with the technical challenges and requirements that will arise when Britain leaves the EU.

    May set out terms for a Brexit deal in July, but it is unclear whether Brussels will accept her plan, which calls for free trade of goods but not of services, and for strict regulations on immigration. EU officials have complained that the proposal the U.K. put forward is “a nonstarter.”

    Despite the uncertainty, however, people in Britain appear to be taking the situation in stride.

    “If the public really thinks that in eight months’ time Britain is going to be plunged into the economic equivalent of a nuclear winter, the economy will take a serious hit,” Larry Elliot, the economics editor for The Guardian’s U.K. edition, wrote in an op-ed. “So far, though, people seem relatively relaxed and haven’t spent the bank holiday weekend stripping supermarket shelves of baked beans and bottled water.”
    Bolded for stuff I'm sure these 420 pages have taken a hit from.

    Red text for, damn, how British is that phrasing?

    No worries, UK. Trust me when I say the USA can't criticize your life choices.

  3. #7463
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Shh! No time for that! Theresa May is trying to downplay the departure's effect by saying, well, it won't be the end of the world.



    Bolded for stuff I'm sure these 420 pages have taken a hit from.

    Red text for, damn, how British is that phrasing?

    No worries, UK. Trust me when I say the USA can't criticize your life choices.
    I especially like the last sentence of the guardians op-ed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  4. #7464
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a8516206.html

    So, Panasonic is moving its "HQ" to Amsterdam. Not that dramatic, only half of the 30 people sitting in London, probably. But still made the headlines. This is after the known banks and other businesses moving parts of their operations to mainland Europe as a direct response to Brexit. Good for us, I'd say.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  5. #7465
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a8516206.html

    So, Panasonic is moving its "HQ" to Amsterdam. Not that dramatic, only half of the 30 people sitting in London, probably. But still made the headlines. This is after the known banks and other businesses moving parts of their operations to mainland Europe as a direct response to Brexit. Good for us, I'd say.
    Clutching at straws, how desperate.

    Meanwhile back in the real world :-

    "Britain remains the top destination for foreign investment in the whole of Europe - with London still the number one city despite warnings that a Leave vote would deter foreign investors, the report estimates a record number of jobs were created last year as a result of new money pouring in.

    The annual Global Trends report by tech giant IBM says London remains the number one city globally for direct foreign investment (FDI). Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham also saw growth and are in the top 20 globally, according to the report."


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nt-Europe.html

    Bad for you I'd say.

    As the once upon a time fairy tale crescendo whine of the remainers whimpers and dies, all that is left is the cold hard facts as they mourn those wasted tissues and tears.

  6. #7466
    Back with real news. Not Daily Mail crazytown

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45389610

    TL : DR again Chequers is still dead and the only options are not leave, norway or we're all fucked.

  7. #7467
    I am Murloc!
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    deadline is mid-November, but that's it. ~11 weeks sound much, but UK will have to move earlier.

  8. #7468
    Nothing will happen. The UK is still convinced that the EU is bluffing. As long as they don't realise that the real EU isn't the one from their fantasy, May won't have a reason to change her attitude. She'll continue hoping for a miracle in the last second and waste time not looking for realistic solutions.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  9. #7469
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Your disconnect with reality is total. I never expected to say this but Dribbles, how old are you even? Your lack of knowledge about Greece, and who is to blame for Greeces Austerity Programs tells me that either you lived under a rock, or your like 17....


    For Greece's austerity problems, and here I tend to agree on anti - EU people, thats its harsh but the option otherwise was a complete collapse of many banks (Bank of England etc etc) due to a cascading failure of banks to keep coverage over many of there services, the only thing you could blame the EU for is that they should have taken action far sooner, if you saw Greeces folk sport of tax evasion and corruption you would have expected them to take earlier action, alas however that never happened and heres the result of it: Nasty austerity measures, mostly on greeks on fault.

    And you know who wanted extremely harsh austerity measures on the Greeks? wasnt Germans, nor French, nor Austrians, but it was the dutch actually.
    EU nations couldve just bailed their banks internally and let investors burn or not. The idea that the money had to be extorted to greece is nonsense. The USA did it during the 08 crisis without incurring to massive austerity, quite the contrary we had boosting plans.

    EU apologists bother me

  10. #7470
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Ideological, May and many in the UK in general, do not understand and ultimately oppose the ideals that form the foundations of the EU. They do not think there is anything to be lost by the EU violating these principles because they do not share those principles. So they cannot comprehend why Brussels and many if not all of the EU states are appalled by their insistence that these principles do not matter and can be sacrificed at will.

    Beyond that, they are also incompetent and cannot fathom that you cannot really have free trade in goods but not in services at this point in time because they are completely linked.
    And that should be the condition under which they can remain in the EU or reapply at a later stage. I don't even want money from them. I just want them to write on a public paper for everyone to see that they understand the core principles and then I want them to confirm that they understand how legislation works and that every member state, even they, is responsible for whatever legislation comes out of the EU at least in some democratic part.

    People often talk about conditions for the UK, this would be my condition. And I guess it's more unlikely that this would happen anytime soon than the UK coughing up the budget contributions they promised.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trust Trader Mittens View Post
    EU nations couldve just bailed their banks internally and let investors burn or not. The idea that the money had to be extorted to greece is nonsense. The USA did it during the 08 crisis without incurring to massive austerity, quite the contrary we had boosting plans.

    EU apologists bother me
    Uninformed Americans bother us. So, we're even? Goodbye.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  11. #7471
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And that should be the condition under which they can remain in the EU or reapply at a later stage. I don't even want money from them. I just want them to write on a public paper for everyone to see that they understand the core principles and then I want them to confirm that they understand how legislation works and that every member state, even they, is responsible for whatever legislation comes out of the EU at least in some democratic part.

    People often talk about conditions for the UK, this would be my condition. And I guess it's more unlikely that this would happen anytime soon than the UK coughing up the budget contributions they promised.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Uninformed Americans bother us. So, we're even? Goodbye.
    More informed than the german it seems....

    Whatevee tho, go continue justifying how there was no other option despite other unions managing much better without throwing states into debt servitude all because certain countries cant have their banks face consequences.

  12. #7472
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Uninformed Americans bother us. So, we're even? Goodbye.
    Pipe down you german pansy. When your country reaches America's economy of 20 trillion and military defence budget of 717 billion then we can have a dicussion.

  13. #7473
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    deadline is mid-November, but that's it. ~11 weeks sound much, but UK will have to move earlier.
    We need to also add nothing in parliament can be started until after the conferences. Parliament is still in recess, comes back for a week and then goes away until mid october again. Essentially the UK has a month to decide if it wants to crash out, Norway or revoke Article 50.

  14. #7474
    Part of the Greek issue was that Italian banks would fail if Greece was left to go bankrupt as they had bound stupid amounts of capital in their Greek buddies and vice versa. Italy could not handle structurally significant banks collapsing and you'd have a chain reaction. The euro zone could handle Greece (and Cyprus for that matter) biting the bullet but Italy was simply too big so at first they had to buy the banking sector time to get their shit sorted and protect themselves. Once the banks were (mostly) safe Greece could theoretically have been allowed to default, go to hell and get rebuilt but that wasn't really in any-ones interest except apparently Alexis Zipras'.

    I'm told the US has a far more domestically focused economy so going Keynesian works better there.

    As for the actual topic at hand:
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw

  15. #7475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust Trader Mittens View Post
    EU nations couldve just bailed their banks internally and let investors burn or not. The idea that the money had to be extorted to greece is nonsense. The USA did it during the 08 crisis without incurring to massive austerity, quite the contrary we had boosting plans.

    EU apologists bother me
    The US wasnt alone bailing out banks in 2008..

    At some point the goal must be to make debtors pay instead of having the tax payers pay for others irresponsible borrowing, in this case Greece had to pay rather than random european tax payers

  16. #7476
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    The US wasnt alone bailing out banks in 2008..

    At some point the goal must be to make debtors pay instead of having the tax payers pay for others irresponsible borrowing, in this case Greece had to pay rather than random european tax payers
    For every bad debtor there is a bad lender. But if you want to plunder poor nations to cover for the latter be my guest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Btw nice union you have there if thats the case then lol.

  17. #7477
    Quote Originally Posted by Trust Trader Mittens View Post
    For every bad debtor there is a bad lender. But if you want to plunder poor nations to cover for the latter be my guest.
    Wow, that's pretty sophisticated victim blaming. But I don't expect anyone else from the country where the mess originated from. Like we'd take advice from a country that builds itself on corruption and fraud like that.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  18. #7478
    Quote Originally Posted by Trust Trader Mittens View Post
    EU nations couldve just bailed their banks internally and let investors burn or not. The idea that the money had to be extorted to greece is nonsense. The USA did it during the 08 crisis without incurring to massive austerity, quite the contrary we had boosting plans.

    EU apologists bother me
    Neither austerity, nor expansive fiscal policy are end-all means to react to a crisis. Both are tools that governments can use, but which one is the better depends a lot on the crisis and the economy in question. The US did what it did in 08 successfully, but at the expense of incurring a massive debt, which will not be repaid for decades, if at all. That, by itself, could case another, bigger crisis to trigger somewhere down the road. However, for the time being it is fine with that amount of debt, due to its financial and political clout. Greece on the other hand could not do that. Not saying that the measures taken were perfct. Just saying that 'just do as the US did' is not something that is even feasible for many countries.

  19. #7479
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Neither austerity, nor expansive fiscal policy are end-all means to react to a crisis. Both are tools that governments can use, but which one is the better depends a lot on the crisis and the economy in question. The US did what it did in 08 successfully, but at the expense of incurring a massive debt, which will not be repaid for decades, if at all. That, by itself, could case another, bigger crisis to trigger somewhere down the road. However, for the time being it is fine with that amount of debt, due to its financial and political clout. Greece on the other hand could not do that. Not saying that the measures taken were perfct. Just saying that 'just do as the US did' is not something that is even feasible for many countries.
    Have you seen debt to gdp of greece before austerity and now? If austerity was a solution to prevent massive debt it has been a total failure.

  20. #7480
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Neither austerity, nor expansive fiscal policy are end-all means to react to a crisis. Both are tools that governments can use, but which one is the better depends a lot on the crisis and the economy in question. The US did what it did in 08 successfully, but at the expense of incurring a massive debt, which will not be repaid for decades, if at all. That, by itself, could case another, bigger crisis to trigger somewhere down the road. However, for the time being it is fine with that amount of debt, due to its financial and political clout. Greece on the other hand could not do that. Not saying that the measures taken were perfct. Just saying that 'just do as the US did' is not something that is even feasible for many countries.
    And the EU/Eurozone as a whole did not have a mandate or facility to deal with such bailouts and failing banks in a quick and orderly manner back then. It took until 2010 for the financial stability mechanism to be created, and more recently the single resolution board. The US could act much more quickly.
    But as you said, what course of action is the best is anyone's guess.

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