View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #8801
    Deleted
    the UK is so boned but this is what happens when you decide to vote away all of your power.

  2. #8802
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    the UK is so boned but this is what happens when you decide to vote away all of your power.
    They didn't know what they were doing. But the criminal negligience and incompetence of Johnsson and Farage... something needs to be done about that. It really borders on treason and I hate that those dicks will get away with it.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  3. #8803
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    the UK is so boned but this is what happens when you decide to vote away all of your power.

    Don't be so silly. The UK behind the scenes has been making contingencies for a no deal for at least 2 years and is ready. In those immortal words the EU is not prepared and is only now with the November EU/UK summit likely cancelled considering its options. The EU lumbering elephant has no chance against the smaller and much more nimble UK.

    Incoming UK tax haven just off the EU coast in the opening David vs Goliath salvo. The new Monaco if you will and a new Ferarri for anyone and everyone.

    We inch closer day by day to that sweet no deal Brexit being confirmed, bring it on.

  4. #8804
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Don't be so silly. The UK behind the scenes has been making contingencies for a no deal for at least 2 years and is ready. In those immortal words the EU is not prepared and is only now with the November EU/UK summit likely cancelled considering its options. The EU lumbering elephant has no chance against the smaller and much more nimble UK.

    Incoming UK tax haven just off the EU coast in the opening David vs Goliath salvo. The new Monaco if you will and a new Ferarri for anyone and everyone.

    We inch closer day by day to that sweet no deal Brexit being confirmed, bring it on.
    Name the contingencies and how they will work.

    Bye bye NHS and Armed forces.

    Looking forward to the day the English stop squatting in Northern Ireland. Not long now.

  5. #8805
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Don't be so silly. The UK behind the scenes has been making contingencies for a no deal for at least 2 years and is ready. In those immortal words the EU is not prepared and is only now with the November EU/UK summit likely cancelled considering its options. The EU lumbering elephant has no chance against the smaller and much more nimble UK.

    Incoming UK tax haven just off the EU coast in the opening David vs Goliath salvo. The new Monaco if you will and a new Ferarri for anyone and everyone.

    We inch closer day by day to that sweet no deal Brexit being confirmed, bring it on.
    I'll put you back on ignore again, you're contributing nothing to this thread at this stage. Not even humour. Goodbye, I'm sure someone else will reply to you once you get your two braincells back together to assemble a coherent post that isn't complete fiction out of your ass. You're an embarassment for the Brexit movement.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  6. #8806
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post

    A general election is pretty much no deal confirmed and crawling back. Unless if Labour got into power first thing they do is "We recind article 50." on day 1. Because unless something is sorted out in 48 hours MAX it's over.
    The Labour Party is not your Remain vehicle.

    Labour voters will accept a return to the EU if it means workers rights are properly protected. That is not an easy thing to negotiate.

    Middle-class liberal sentiments have been prioritized for way too long by Blairites, you are going to have to wait for your Portugese waitress to bring you your latte I'm afraid.

  7. #8807
    Quote Originally Posted by vulplarcher View Post
    Labour voters will accept a return to the EU if it means workers rights are properly protected. That is not an easy thing to negotiate
    You seem to be confused about what side in these negotiations is protecting worker rights and who are trying to win a chase to the bottom or at least secure some pensions for themselves.

  8. #8808
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    Bye bye NHS and Armed forces.

    Looking forward to the day the English stop squatting in Northern Ireland. Not long now.
    Why on earth do you think that Brexit will mean "Bye bye NHS and Armed forces"?

    What do you mean by the English squatting in Northern Ireland? Are the sixty-odd thousand English people in NI living abandoned buildings or something?

  9. #8809
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I'll put you back on ignore again, you're contributing nothing to this thread at this stage. Not even humour. Goodbye, I'm sure someone else will reply to you once you get your two braincells back together to assemble a coherent post that isn't complete fiction out of your ass. You're an embarassment for the Brexit movement.
    Typical of the EU and you to be throwing a tantrum and sticking your fingers in your ears and singing lalalala when presented with the cold hard facts.

    Do you think I am Mrs May?

    Brexit LIVE: Germany fury at May as EU deal on brink of collapse - 'TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!'

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...eeting-EU-deal

    Contain your fury man, stop hiding in your cubby hole and calm down.

    (p.s. Just because I am on your hallowed ignore list, thank God, it doesn't stop you see this when not logged in, but bye bye anyway I guess.)

    Tick tock. Bwahahahahaaa

  10. #8810
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    You seem to be confused about what side in these negotiations is protecting worker rights and who are trying to win a chase to the bottom or at least secure some pensions for themselves.
    vulplarcher is probably talking about left wing critiques that frame the EU as a capitalist club built on Hayekian principles from The Economic Conditions of Interstate Federalism and that this foundation leads inevitably to erosion over time of workers rights and a driving down of wages as global labor arbitrage disrupts local labor markets. So the Lexit theory goes - May fails and falls and a GE results in a Labour Government that can, free from EU state-aid, etc. constraints, start to build a genuinely left wing future for the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why on earth do you think that Brexit will mean "Bye bye NHS and Armed forces"?

    What do you mean by the English squatting in Northern Ireland? Are the sixty-odd thousand English people in NI living abandoned buildings or something?
    I'd guess because many of the architects of Brexit and the chief Brexiteers in charge are ideologically opposed to the notion of nationalised healthcare and would be delighted to sell it off. Carswell and Hannan wrote a shitty dystopian novel/political pamphlet about how in the first 12 months after Brexit we should (amongst other things) switch to a Singaporean style mixed public/private healthcare system and this is just the beginning for them:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0053KF0...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
    Similarly, it's no secret that people like Disgraced Former Defence Secretary Liam Fox and Jeremy Hunt have been vocal in the past about how private provision should replace the NHS.

    On the squatting front - that's presumably a ref to potential Irish reunification which seems more plausible if Brexit damages the NI economy or the ability of people to move freely between the North and South.

    Soz to anyone if I've misrepresented your point.

  11. #8811
    Quote Originally Posted by Soxoffender View Post
    vulplarcher is probably talking about left wing critiques that frame the EU as a capitalist club built on Hayekian principles from The Economic Conditions of Interstate Federalism and that this foundation leads inevitably to erosion over time of workers rights and a driving down of wages as global labor arbitrage disrupts local labor markets. So the Lexit theory goes - May fails and falls and a GE results in a Labour Government that can, free from EU state-aid, etc. constraints, start to build a genuinely left wing future for the country.
    I never get this view on the far left, when it comes to workers rights the EU has basically made it so every European country has better worker rights than what they had prior to joining and that mainland europe as a whole each and every country within the EU has much greater rights for workers than the UK has due to opt outs. The Tories have within their ranks enough members so ideologically opposed to worker's rights that even some of the republicans in the US might think these guys are a bit far.

  12. #8812
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I never get this view on the far left, when it comes to workers rights the EU has basically made it so every European country has better worker rights than what they had prior to joining and that mainland europe as a whole each and every country within the EU has much greater rights for workers than the UK has due to opt outs. The Tories have within their ranks enough members so ideologically opposed to worker's rights that even some of the republicans in the US might think these guys are a bit far.
    I agree that it's absolutely a fact that Tory MEPs have consistently fought against increases in workers rights in the EU and and that people like Fox are licking their lips at the opportunity to join a race to the bottom in becoming a low wage "highly competitive" society. It's also true that freedom of movement has allowed workers to take temporary residence in wealthier countries and 'potentially' take work at a lower wage than locals. Some will tell you that this global labour arbitrage leads to a suppression of wages in the long term and that this disproportionately affects those on lower wages as that's usually where it's easiest to overload the labour market by importing foreign labour. Think of it like outsourcing, except rather than moving the factory abroad you move the lower-wage labour in.

    Whether or not this has had a significant impact in the UK is up for debate, but that's the theory.

  13. #8813
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why on earth do you think that Brexit will mean "Bye bye NHS and Armed forces"?

    What do you mean by the English squatting in Northern Ireland? Are the sixty-odd thousand English people in NI living abandoned buildings or something?
    Both are already in dire straits, where do you think the cuts will go in a no deal brexit (lets not even get into the hiring problems/procurement/trade deal sell offs/ lower tax revenue)

    United Ireland > hard border.

  14. #8814
    Quote Originally Posted by Soxoffender View Post
    I'd guess because many of the architects of Brexit and the chief Brexiteers in charge are ideologically opposed to the notion of nationalised healthcare and would be delighted to sell it off. Carswell and Hannan wrote a shitty dystopian novel/political pamphlet about how in the first 12 months after Brexit we should (amongst other things) switch to a Singaporean style mixed public/private healthcare system and this is just the beginning for them:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0053KF0...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
    Similarly, it's no secret that people like Disgraced Former Defence Secretary Liam Fox and Jeremy Hunt have been vocal in the past about how private provision should replace the NHS.

    On the squatting front - that's presumably a ref to potential Irish reunification which seems more plausible if Brexit damages the NI economy or the ability of people to move freely between the North and South.

    Soz to anyone if I've misrepresented your point.
    I appreciate the effort but all you have proved is that some people who supported Brexit are in favour of privatised health care. It is a massive leap from a couple of former politicians writing a book and some soundbites from a couple of MPs to the NHS going bye, bye.

    As for Northern Ireland, the unionists still comprise the majority of the NI population and it is highly unlikely that the Republic will vote to make the Unionists their problem as well as the financial burden Northern Ireland would have on their economy (especially if they are hit by a no-deal Brexit).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    Both are already in dire straits, where do you think the cuts will go in a no deal brexit (lets not even get into the hiring problems/procurement/trade deal sell offs/ lower tax revenue)

    United Ireland > hard border.
    Why don't you tell me what cuts will be made and how they would result in the demise of both the NHS and the armed forces?

    Utter nonsense.

  15. #8815
    Quote Originally Posted by bbc

    Brexit: 'No optimism' for summit breakthrough, says Donald Tusk

    Donald Tusk has poured cold water on hopes of a Brexit breakthrough at Wednesday's EU summit, saying the Irish border was still a sticking point.

    The European Council president said he had "no grounds for optimism" it would be solved at the summit.

    And he called on Theresa May to come up with "concrete proposals" to break the "impasse".

    The prime minister told her cabinet a deal was within reach if the government "stand together and stand firm".

    Speaking at a press conference in Brussels, Mr Tusk said: "As I see it, the only source of hope for a deal for now is the goodwill and determination on both sides.

    Katya Adler: Berlin's view of the Brexit breakdown
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    "However, for a breakthrough to take place besides goodwill we need new facts.

    "Tomorrow (Wednesday), I am going to ask Prime Minister May whether she has concrete proposals on how to break the impasse."

    He urged Mrs May to present "something creative enough" to break the deadlock.

    He said EU leaders would discuss how to step-up preparations for a "no-deal scenario", but stressed that did not mean they were not also making "every effort to reach the best agreement possible for all sides".

    Both sides in Brexit talks are hoping that a deal on the UK's withdrawal from the EU, including the Irish border question, will be agreed by mid-November in time for it to be ratified by EU members and for MPs at Westminster to vote on it.

    The UK and the EU had hoped that enough progress would be made at Wednesday's EU council meeting to call a special summit in November to finalise the terms of the UK's exit.

    Asked if the November summit would still go ahead, Mr Tusk said: "It's for the leaders to decide whether we need an extraordinary summit in November or not.

    "Logistically, we are ready, but we need the feeling that we are close to a real breakthrough. The clock is ticking."

    Theresa May told a cabinet meeting on Tuesday morning she could not agree to any deal with the EU which created a new border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK - or one which locked the UK into a customs union with the EU indefinitely.

    She says this would be the consequence of the proposals currently on the table from the EU.

    The cabinet had discussed a "mechanism" that would avoid an indefinite customs union if a full trade deal cannot be agreed by the end of the 21-month transition period that is due to kick in after the UK leaves on 29 March - the so-called "backstop" plan.

    But it was "not a decision-making cabinet", Downing Street said.

    The prime minister told ministers progress had been made in Brexit talks on the "future framework" for trade and although there would be challenging moments ahead a deal with Brussels was within reach, Downing Street said.

    "I am convinced that if we as a government stand together and stand firm we will achieve this," she said.

    Mrs May used Tuesday's cabinet to rally support for her position among senior ministers, amid reports eight of them had met on Monday to discuss their concerns about it.

    Downing Street said none of the eight - Dominic Raab, Jeremy Hunt, Michael Gove, Penny Mordaunt, Chris Grayling, Liz Truss, Andrea Leadsom and Geoffrey Cox - had threatened to quit at Tuesday's cabinet meeting and it was clear that she had strong support.

    The EU's chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier, who is travelling to Luxembourg to brief EU leaders ahead of Wednesday's summit, said he hoped a deal with Britain was possible "in the coming weeks".

    "We are still not there.

    "There are still several issues which remain unresolved, including that of Ireland, and therefore what I understand is that more time is required to find this comprehensive deal and to reach this decisive progress which we need in order to finalise these negotiations on the orderly exit of the United Kingdom."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45871254

    It seems the EU has all but given up on a deal now. It's all down to May not being absolute stubborn and bring in something that isn't stupid.

  16. #8816
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I appreciate the effort but all you have proved is that some people who supported Brexit are in favour of privatised health care. It is a massive leap from a couple of former politicians writing a book and some soundbites from a couple of MPs to the NHS going bye, bye.

    As for Northern Ireland, the unionists still comprise the majority of the NI population and it is highly unlikely that the Republic will vote to make the Unionists their problem as well as the financial burden Northern Ireland would have on their economy (especially if they are hit by a no-deal Brexit).

    - - - Updated - - -



    Why don't you tell me what cuts will be made and how they would result in the demise of both the NHS and the armed forces?

    Utter nonsense.
    Fox is the Secretary of State for International Trade - he's charged with making post-Brexit deals (which could include opening up our markets to foreign businesses) and Hunt is the foreign secretary. These are not fringe nutters, they are cabinet nutters.

    Here's our old pal Dan Hannan on the Cato Institute's website writing a 'blueprint' for a future US/UK deal that includes allowing 'competition' between US firms and the NHS. Fox has said it's great and the ERG (which represents about 20 Tory MPs) has also backed it:
    https://www.cato.org/publications/wh...rs-perspective
    It may not come to pass but there are mainstream elements within the Tory party that absolutely want to dismantle the NHS, at a personal profit of course.

    As for NI - if the GFA is compromised or the UUP think they can start gaining ground on the DUP by claiming any Brexit agreement Foster signs off is weak and ratcheting up the sectarianism then things could change quickly.

  17. #8817
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post


    Why don't you tell me what cuts will be made and how they would result in the demise of both the NHS and the armed forces?

    Utter nonsense.
    We can wait for the autumn budget to see more but :

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13078 - nhs reality

    not to mention no deal would gut the NHS of workers. (and in social care)

    as for the armed forces they are already a skeleton crew with a 20billion budget shortfall. Navy pruned 33%.

    Where do you think the revenue is going to come from in a shattered economy, and what do you think the first things cut are?

  18. #8818
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Typical of the EU and you to be throwing a tantrum and sticking your fingers in your ears and singing lalalala when presented with the cold hard facts.

    Do you think I am Mrs May?

    Brexit LIVE: Germany fury at May as EU deal on brink of collapse - 'TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!'

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...eeting-EU-deal

    Contain your fury man, stop hiding in your cubby hole and calm down.

    (p.s. Just because I am on your hallowed ignore list, thank God, it doesn't stop you see this when not logged in, but bye bye anyway I guess.)

    Tick tock. Bwahahahahaaa
    what kind of facts?
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  19. #8819
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    what kind of facts?
    Alternate Facts

  20. #8820
    Quote Originally Posted by Soxoffender View Post
    Fox is the Secretary of State for International Trade - he's charged with making post-Brexit deals (which could include opening up our markets to foreign businesses) and Hunt is the foreign secretary. These are not fringe nutters, they are cabinet nutters.

    Here's our old pal Dan Hannan on the Cato Institute's website writing a 'blueprint' for a future US/UK deal that includes allowing 'competition' between US firms and the NHS. Fox has said it's great and the ERG (which represents about 20 Tory MPs) has also backed it:
    https://www.cato.org/publications/wh...rs-perspective
    It may not come to pass but there are mainstream elements within the Tory party that absolutely want to dismantle the NHS, at a personal profit of course.

    As for NI - if the GFA is compromised or the UUP think they can start gaining ground on the DUP by claiming any Brexit agreement Foster signs off is weak and ratcheting up the sectarianism then things could change quickly.
    I am aware of who they are. It still does not change the fact that these people, regardless of what positions they may or not hold within government, are unable to privatise the NHS.

    I'm not sure why you've brought up The UUP apart from being a bit of a spent force they are Unionists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    We can wait for the autumn budget to see more but :

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/13078 - nhs reality

    not to mention no deal would gut the NHS of workers. (and in social care)

    as for the armed forces they are already a skeleton crew with a 20billion budget shortfall. Navy pruned 33%.

    Where do you think the revenue is going to come from in a shattered economy, and what do you think the first things cut are?
    The NHS, like many public services, is short of money. This is the reality of being in debt to the tune of 88% of our GDP and having to pay 8% of the UK tax take per annum on servicing that debt (which indecently is higher than defence spending).

    Why would no-deal gut the NHS of workers? Aside from the fact over 85% of the NHS's staff are British why would the UK not grant the right to work to the 5.6% of workers from the EU?

    The UK armed forces do not have a budget shortfall of £20billion. It has been reported that they could face a shortfall of £20billion from their £180billion budget for new equipment over the next decade, although many estimates put this closer to £4billion.

    How did the NHS and armed forces survive the global financial crisis?

    Are you going quote headlines or provide some actual evidence to back up your claim that the NHS and armed forces are going bye-bye post Brexit?

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