View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #9021
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    So Boris Johnson's own brother quit the cabinate and demanded a people's vote

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403

    Seems like only Boris is the one without brains in the family. Their sister quit the party and joined Lib Dems due to the fiasco over Brexit.
    So, basically Brexit boils down to a bully trolling his little brother and sister? That's why a country is on the brink of a desaster? Can someone put him into prison already?
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  2. #9022
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    So, basically Brexit boils down to a bully trolling his little brother and sister? That's why a country is on the brink of a desaster? Can someone put him into prison already?
    I think it's more Boris so desperate to be PM and is scared to backtrack.

    Jo Johnson is keeping up with the push for a new vote.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46162114

    The UK needs to "pause and reflect" before doing something "irrevocably stupid" over Brexit, Jo Johnson said a day after quitting as a minister.

    On BBC Radio 4's Today he called again for another referendum, saying what was being offered fell "spectacularly short" of what had been promised.

    The ex-transport minister said it would be a "democratic travesty" to not have another vote.

    He denied his actions amounted to a coup against the prime minister.

    Mr Johnson, who voted to remain in the EU in the 2016 referendum, stood down as Theresa May's prospective deal with Brussels was being presented to Cabinet ministers.

    Mr Johnson warned the UK faced a choice between "vassalage" under her proposals and "chaos" if it left the EU without a deal.

    The MP for Orpington in Kent said he had "happily taken the decision" to end his own ministerial career and, when asked if he thought other ministers would resign, he said if they thought it was right thing for them to take a stand then "good on them".

    Cabinet ministers have been invited this week to read the UK's draft withdrawal deal with the EU. Mrs May has said the withdrawal deal is 95% done - but there is no agreement yet on how to guarantee no hard border in Northern Ireland.

    Downing Street has insisted there will not be another referendum "under any circumstances".

    Asked whether he agreed with Mr Johnson's call, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said: "Not really, no. The referendum took place. The issue now has to be how we bring people together, bring people together around the principles of our economy, our rights."

    He said Labour would hold the government to account over any Brexit deal put to the Commons and could still vote against it.

    Jo Johnson's resignation feels like a very significant moment.

    Here is a former Remain-supporting Conservative minister saying what others mutter privately about Brexit.

    His lacerating criticism of the government's negotiation and call for another referendum has opened another flank in the Tory party for Theresa May to worry about.

    Tory whips know many (40, 50, more?) Brexiteers are threatening to vote against any deal she gets from the EU in the Commons because they think it ties the UK too closely to the EU.

    But the whips must also worry about Remainer Tories determined to derail the whole thing because of the costs they fear Brexit will inflict on the country.

    With no majority in the Commons, No10's task could have just got harder.

    Mr Johnson's resignation also fires up those in all parties who say another referendum is now needed - a suggestion again slapped down by Downing Street.

    But right now, in the middle of this remembrance weekend, Mrs May will be relieved his resignation has not prompted others to follow him out of government.

    There has been no domino effect, yet.

    But while Westminster waits for the PM to put her final Brexit blueprint before the Cabinet for approval, these are febrile days.

    In a resignation statement on Friday, Mr Johnson, who is the brother of former foreign secretary and leading Brexiteer Boris Johnson, argued Britain was "on the brink of the greatest crisis" since World War Two, saying what was on offer wasn't "anything like what was promised".

    Mr Johnson told Today: "My view is that this is so different from what was billed that it would be an absolute travesty if we do not go back to the people and ask them if they actually do want to exit the EU on this extraordinarily hopeless basis."

    Asked if his brother had lied to voters during the referendum, he said: "In the campaign there were undoubtedly promises made that have shown to be undeliverable. No-one can dispute that.

    "It was a false prospectus. It was a fantasy set of promises that have been shown up for what they were. We are now faced with the reality of that in the form of a deal the prime minister is about to bring back before parliament."

    He added he had become "deeply concerned" about the potential impact of a no-deal outcome while a minister.

    Conservative MP and leading Brexiteer, Jacob Rees-Mogg, and the former First Secretary of State Damian Green, both rejected another referendum.

    Mr Green told Today it "would be divisive but it wouldn't be decisive", and all the evidence showed the country was "still, more or less, split down the middle".

    Mr Rees-Mogg said Mr Johnson was "re-heating 'Project Fear' to stop us leaving".

    Mr Johnson is the sixth minister in Theresa May's government to resign specifically over Brexit, following David Davis, Boris Johnson, Philip Lee, Steve Baker and Guto Bebb.

  3. #9023
    Deleted
    shame corbyn is being a cunt and all.

    labour should call for another vote = getting elected next GE.

    fucking basics here.

  4. #9024
    Labour is still in a civil war between the members as a whole and the MPs. Corbyn won't budge because he's anti EU along with the shadow chancellor. Plus I am absolutely certain he wants to be opposition so he can do all the complaining without ever having to govern.

    Until the Labour members realise this instead of being "I'd rather lose with someone 100% my side than with with 90% my side." then there's no chance. Corbyn himself is unelectable. Labour getting the votes they did were in spite of not because of Corbyn. Labour is viewed better than the Tories but Corbyn is viewed much much worse than May meaning he's scaring people off.

  5. #9025
    Dreadlord Nigel Tufnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Labour is still in a civil war between the members as a whole and the MPs. Corbyn won't budge because he's anti EU along with the shadow chancellor. Plus I am absolutely certain he wants to be opposition so he can do all the complaining without ever having to govern.

    Until the Labour members realise this instead of being "I'd rather lose with someone 100% my side than with with 90% my side." then there's no chance. Corbyn himself is unelectable. Labour getting the votes they did were in spite of not because of Corbyn. Labour is viewed better than the Tories but Corbyn is viewed much much worse than May meaning he's scaring people off.
    If any Momentum chaps / chapettes / chap-gender-neutrals are reading, just to clarify:

    Unless Labour come down from the fence, I will vote Tory.

    I don't want to vote Tory, I hate my local Tory. But in the event of a GE called because May is ousted, unless Labour specifically come out in favour of a second referendum I will vote Tory. Because if we're going to hard Brexit, I'm sure as fuck not going to do it with a socialist government.

    Thanks.
    You can't really dust for vomit.

  6. #9026
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    If any Momentum chaps / chapettes / chap-gender-neutrals are reading, just to clarify:

    Unless Labour come down from the fence, I will vote Tory.

    I don't want to vote Tory, I hate my local Tory. But in the event of a GE called because May is ousted, unless Labour specifically come out in favour of a second referendum I will vote Tory. Because if we're going to hard Brexit, I'm sure as fuck not going to do it with a socialist government.

    Thanks.
    Why specifically? I mean, you're speaking about a major recession already. What's a socialist Government going to do to worsen then situation? You could literally put a monkey in the PM seat and it'd be just as dramatic. In other terms, when you drive your car down the cliff, does it really matter if you're sitting in a VW Beetle or a Ferrari F40?
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  7. #9027
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    If any Momentum chaps / chapettes / chap-gender-neutrals are reading, just to clarify:

    Unless Labour come down from the fence, I will vote Tory.

    I don't want to vote Tory, I hate my local Tory. But in the event of a GE called because May is ousted, unless Labour specifically come out in favour of a second referendum I will vote Tory. Because if we're going to hard Brexit, I'm sure as fuck not going to do it with a socialist government.

    Thanks.
    who did you vote for last general election/the one before?

  8. #9028
    Dreadlord Nigel Tufnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Why specifically? I mean, you're speaking about a major recession already. What's a socialist Government going to do to worsen then situation? You could literally put a monkey in the PM seat and it'd be just as dramatic. In other terms, when you drive your car down the cliff, does it really matter if you're sitting in a VW Beetle or a Ferrari F40?
    I'm going to take this with a pinch of salt, dude.

    GDP contracts, Labour spends

    GDP contracts, Tories don't spend

    Explain which is worse for me (higher rate tax payer)?
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  9. #9029
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    If any Momentum chaps / chapettes / chap-gender-neutrals are reading, just to clarify:

    Unless Labour come down from the fence, I will vote Tory.

    I don't want to vote Tory, I hate my local Tory. But in the event of a GE called because May is ousted, unless Labour specifically come out in favour of a second referendum I will vote Tory. Because if we're going to hard Brexit, I'm sure as fuck not going to do it with a socialist government.

    Thanks.
    Voting Tory because Labour isn't following the Brexit path you want is utterly ridiculous. It's like saying "I can't support Mussolini, he's too right wing for me. He needs to change otherwise I'm voting Hitler".

    How would a Brexit under a Socialist government be worse than under this crew of self-serving idiots? Are you concerned they will keep the worker protections we've enjoyed under the EU, and you want to vote in a Tory government to make completely sure we get rid of them? You are going to have to explain this position you're taking, because from where I'm sitting it makes zero sense.
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  10. #9030
    From what I can tell, it looks like Great Britain is in free fall, and everyone is trying to make sure they don't get blamed for what is about to happen. Probably the best possible result would be for everyone to yell "The SKY IS FALLING!!!", and then when things get bad, everyone can fall back on "Yeah, but it's not as bad as I thought it would be."

    On the other hand, I have not heard too much of anything TRULY bad happening to the British economy. So maybe things will just muddle along. However, since both left wing and right wing politicians seem to be in duck and cover mode, I suspect that their private sources agree that the future does not look good for the country.

  11. #9031
    Dreadlord Nigel Tufnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    who did you vote for last general election/the one before?
    Last election: Lib Dem

    Election before: Lib Dem

    EP elections: Green
    You can't really dust for vomit.

  12. #9032
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    I'm going to take this with a pinch of salt, dude.

    GDP contracts, Labour spends

    GDP contracts, Tories don't spend

    Explain which is worse for me (higher rate tax payer)?
    In practice, "not spending" extends recessions. The good news with a Tory government, in a recession, is that, without a job, your taxes will be VERY low.

  13. #9033
    Dreadlord Nigel Tufnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    In practice, "not spending" extends recessions. The good news with a Tory government, in a recession, is that, without a job, your taxes will be VERY low.
    Fuck me, this forum is populated by Keynesian economists

    - - - Updated - - -

    Look chaps, chapettes, chap-gender-neturals...

    I really don't want to get into an argument.

    You should all know by now where I'm coming from.

    You lot persuade Corbyn that I should vote for him and I will do.

    Simple enough
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  14. #9034
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    From what I can tell, it looks like Great Britain is in free fall, and everyone is trying to make sure they don't get blamed for what is about to happen. Probably the best possible result would be for everyone to yell "The SKY IS FALLING!!!", and then when things get bad, everyone can fall back on "Yeah, but it's not as bad as I thought it would be."

    On the other hand, I have not heard too much of anything TRULY bad happening to the British economy. So maybe things will just muddle along. However, since both left wing and right wing politicians seem to be in duck and cover mode, I suspect that their private sources agree that the future does not look good for the country.
    You heard right. Here's the reason (thanks to the brexit vote)....

    The new quarterly GDP figures this morning reveal that EU economies are experiencing a significant slowdown in growth. The UK on the other hand is one of the few EU countries where GDP growth is higher this year than last year




    Did you also not hear that the peoples (Germany) who are going to bankroll the EU from now on, instead of the UK, are about to release their latest figures in a few days time? Oh yes for sure they will be bad the only question is how bad will they be? And then there's the Italian revised budget due in to their EU masters on Tuesday...yeah right lolz dont hold your breath and in the meantime tick tock....
    Brexiteers are the new remainers. To remain outside of the EU.

  15. #9035
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You heard right. Here's the reason (thanks to the brexit vote)....

    The new quarterly GDP figures this morning reveal that EU economies are experiencing a significant slowdown in growth. The UK on the other hand is one of the few EU countries where GDP growth is higher this year than last year




    Did you also not hear that the peoples (Germany) who are going to bankroll the EU from now on, instead of the UK, are about to release their latest figures in a few days time? Oh yes for sure they will be bad the only question is how bad will they be? And then there's the Italian revised budget due in to their EU masters on Tuesday...yeah right lolz dont hold your breath and in the meantime tick tock....
    Oh Hi Dribbles and absolute lie of a chart. Shall we look at real numbers.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-econ...wth-within-g7/



    6th? tisk tisk that certainly doesn't put the UK above France or Germany. Also a nice drop that seems to happen about the same time a certain vote went ahead? Coincidence?



    Uk well below G7 Average.

    So even if one blip happens it's still 24+ months before that of a massive downward movement on the leaderboard. It's like basically being Bottom of the premier league losing non stop for a year, get relegated, then come bottom of championship, get relegated again and somehow celebrating a technicality win in the FA trophy first round against a non league side.

  16. #9036
    Quote Originally Posted by clownboat
    You heard right. Here's the reason (thanks to the brexit vote)....

    The new quarterly GDP figures this morning reveal that EU economies are experiencing a significant slowdown in growth. The UK on the other hand is one of the few EU countries where GDP growth is higher this year than last year




    Did you also not hear that the peoples (Germany) who are going to bankroll the EU from now on, instead of the UK, are about to release their latest figures in a few days time? Oh yes for sure they will be bad the only question is how bad will they be? And then there's the Italian revised budget due in to their EU masters on Tuesday...yeah right lolz dont hold your breath and in the meantime tick tock....
    Just to illustrate the typical website this clown seems to visit... despite the political heavy weights of The Sun and The Express, this is the true nature of his agenda:

    https://order-order.com/2018/11/09/e...owth-slowdown/

    Let's look at the graph, shall we? Notice how the HUGE COLUMNS are actually just .2 apart? Yeah, that's 0.2% difference. Wow, that's... incredible. Let's make those columns 10m high, every 2 metres, we'll make a line and call that a MASSIVE difference. You're so desperate grasping for straws...

    Here's another chart:



    And another.



    You know what those charts show? They show that your little .2% massive WIN is actually less than half the usual seasonal fluctuation. This isn't a win for you clownboats, this is just... a fluctuation. And you're still in the EU. Your economy still works... somewhat, we're seeing the first kinks already, but that's just a sneak preview.

    But let's see what actual economics have to say about this chart:

    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth

    The British economy grew by 0.6 percent on quarter in the three months to September 2018, following a 0.4 percent expansion in the previous period and matching market expectations, a preliminary estimate showed. It was the strongest growth rate since the last quarter of 2016 as household spending and exports rose firmly while business investment contracted at the fastest pace since early 2016 in part due to Brexit-related economic and political uncertainty.

    Household consumption growth picked up to 0.5 percent in the third quarter from 0.4 percent in the previous three-month period. While the increase in Quarter 3 reflected growth across most categories of expenditure, there was a notably sharp drop in household spending on transport. In addition, government spending rebounded 0.6 percent after a 0.4 percent drop in the previous period; and net external demand contributed positively to the GDP growth as the trade deficit narrowed sharply to £1.655 billion from £5.659 billion in the previous period. Exports of goods and services jumped 2.7 percent (vs -2.2 percent in Q2) while imports were flat (vs -0.2 percent in Q2).

    Meanwhile, the largest negative contribution to growth in Quarter 3 came from gross capital formation (GCF) – which includes gross fixed capital formation (GFCF), changes in inventories and acquisitions less disposal of valuables – subtracting 0.6 percentage points. However, this largely reflects the application of an alignment adjustment (used to balance the three approaches to measuring GDP) to the changes in inventories component. Still, GFCF rose 0.8 percent in the third quarter driven by a strong increase in government investment (8.6 percent), which was the strongest seen since Q1 2014 and reflects broad expenditure growth across central government, most notable in defence. The rises in government and private dwelling investment were partially offset by a 1.2 percent decrease in business investment in Quarter 3. This was the sharpest decline since Q1 2016 and marked the third consecutive quarterly fall – which has not been seen since the global financial crisis.

    "However, today’s figures should be interpreted with some caution as early estimates of business investment can be prone to revision. The recent subdued business investment environment is consistent with external surveys of investment intentions, which attribute much of the weakness to Brexit-related economic and political uncertainty. The uncertainty appears to be deepening recently, with the latest Bank of England’s (BoE) November Inflation Report noting that Brexit and associated uncertainty “may have weighed on investment by more than had been expected in August”. The BoE’s Agents’ summary survey for Quarter 3 further indicated that Brexit uncertainty was the single largest factor weighing on firms’ investment spending plans. These sentiments are echoed in the latest Confederation of British Industry’s (CBI) Industrial Trends Survey (ITS) for the three months to October, which saw planned capital expenditure on plant and machinery for the year ahead fall at its fastest pace since July 2009." the Office for National Statistics said.

    From the production side, construction output growth continued to pick up following a weak start to the year, while quarterly output in the manufacturing sector rose for the first time in 2018. Growth in services output slowed to 0.4 percent, but remained the largest positive contributor to GDP growth in the third quarter.
    Yeah, great outlooks. God, I hope you'll have the balls to come back here in 1-2 years...
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  17. #9037
    Also, part of UK GDP growth right now is probably fueled by stockpiling goods in case of Brexit.
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  18. #9038
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dummkopf
    Just to illustrate the typical website this clown seems to visit... despite the political heavy weights of The Sun and The Express, this is the true nature of his agenda:

    https://order-order.com/2018/11/09/e...owth-slowdown/

    Let's look at the graph, shall we? Notice how the HUGE COLUMNS are actually just .2 apart? Yeah, that's 0.2% difference. Wow, that's... incredible. Let's make those columns 10m high, every 2 metres, we'll make a line and call that a MASSIVE difference. You're so desperate grasping for straws...
    You want economic heavyweights? How about....

    UK GDP Growth Fastest In Nearly 2 Years

    LONDON (Alliance News) - The UK economy expanded at the fastest pace in nearly two years in the third quarter driven by household spending and exports, despite heightened uncertainty over the Brexit deal.

    http://www.morningstar.co.uk/uk/news...y-2-years.aspx

    Got to love those exports. And...

    Germany: More disappointments
    September trade data adds to recent evidence of the worst quarterly performance for the German economy since 2015


    https://think.ing.com/snaps/germany-...sappointments/

    Didn't I always say Brexit would be worse for the EU than the UK? The only reason that graph has an x axis starting at 0 is because the latest GDP figures from Germany haven't been released yet...who knows the next graph may have to start with a negative on the x axis just to accommodate them. Bwaahhahahaaaa and you have an EU army to begin funding, more bwahahahaaaa

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Also, part of UK GDP growth right now is probably fueled by stockpiling goods in case of Brexit.
    Considering much of those stockpiles would come from the EU, you sell more stuff to us than we to you (for now!), shouldn't the eurozone be booming rather than stagnating as a result of losing the UK cash cow?
    Brexiteers are the new remainers. To remain outside of the EU.

  19. #9039
    What a clown... here's a joke:

    The Soviet Union and the US had a race once. The US won, naturally, and the SU came in second. That's how it was reported in the US. In the Soviet Union it was reported "The Soviet Union fought for a well earned 2nd place, while the US were second to last..."

    That's what Dribbles does. He gets an orgasmatic excitement over... .2% growth and tries to sell it as the giant victory while ignoring the big recession that is looming ahead. Go ahead, clownboat. Celebrate this, go ahead... throw some konfetti. You earned it. A whole .2% increase above Germany. That'll be worth... wow, at least a couple million right? Haha
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  20. #9040
    The people spoke... it doesn't matter anymore if you believe they are correct or not the fact the plan seems to be to drag it out forever u till people vote the right way is disgraceful.

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