View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #9161
    Deleted
    So it basically sounds like we switch to the Norway model until both the EU and the UK are satisfied that the divorce is sufficiently hashed out, and the UK can also make trade deals during this time period, that go into effect when the EU and the UK eventually part ways.

    I mean it's not perfect but it's a damn sight better than a no deal.

  2. #9162
    Deleted
    fuck me thats a heavy document.

    at least she has conceeded that brexit can be stopped.

  3. #9163
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    So it basically sounds like we switch to the Norway model until both the EU and the UK are satisfied that the divorce is sufficiently hashed out, and the UK can also make trade deals during this time period, that go into effect when the EU and the UK eventually part ways.

    I mean it's not perfect but it's a damn sight better than a no deal.
    I mean the Norway model is the ONLY way to keep the GFA intact at least on the short term. And imo it will still take tremendous effort to satisfy the RoI and be able to disengage from this deal (since to disengage from it the UK needs EU approval). I mean, does anyone still have any idea how they will keep the borders invisible when this gets withdrawn?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctd123 View Post
    fuck me thats a heavy document.

    at least she has conceeded that brexit can be stopped.
    As deals go, it's pretty much standard. The actual trade deal when it happens 2-3 years from now the earliest will be several times this size.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  4. #9164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    baah, 585 pages ??

    here a 7 pages summary by UK

  5. #9165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean the Norway model is the ONLY way to keep the GFA intact at least on the short term. And imo it will still take tremendous effort to satisfy the RoI and be able to disengage from this deal (since to disengage from it the UK needs EU approval). I mean, does anyone still have any idea how they will keep the borders invisible when this gets withdrawn?
    The only way for the UK to leave the EU and not have a border between NI and the RoI is to either secede NI to the RoI or to move the borders of the UK from NI to Great Britain instead, which is basically ceding NI to the RoI in all but name. The main block to this is the DUP, who are Unionists, who May can't piss off because they are the only thing giving her a majority, if the deal pushes the eventual divorce further down the line, the DUP could be out of the picture and the DUP blocker shouldn't be as big of an issue as it is now.

    Which is presumably why the DUP are vehemently against this agreement.

    And yeah, the EU also getting a say in when the UK leave is probably going to be one of the biggest things that stops this deal in Parliament, even though it makes complete sense for the EU to want a say.

  6. #9166
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    So it basically sounds like we switch to the Norway model until both the EU and the UK are satisfied that the divorce is sufficiently hashed out, and the UK can also make trade deals during this time period, that go into effect when the EU and the UK eventually part ways.

    I mean it's not perfect but it's a damn sight better than a no deal.
    It's a damn lot shittier than what you have right now.

  7. #9167
    Dreadlord Nigel Tufnel's Avatar
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    Hmmms...

    I'm finding it hard to draw anything from the 585 page document.

    And the critical bullet point in the 7 page summary basically says, we're going to leave without a plan to solve an insoluble problem.

    So much unadulterated joy to be had here.
    You can't really dust for vomit.

  8. #9168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    It's a damn lot shittier than what you have right now.

    Ofcourse it is, but even if we end Brexit we're not going to get back what we have now.

    I'll take what I can get at this point, and anything is better than a no deal.

  9. #9169
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    so really know: how much of that pamphlet will survive House of Commons tomorrow ?

    Rees-Mogg is already busy, sending out letters to conservative MP urging to turn down the deal, says the Guardian online.

  10. #9170
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    so really know: how much of that pamphlet will survive House of Commons tomorrow ?

    Rees-Mogg is already busy, sending out letters to conservative MP urging to turn down the deal, says the Guardian online.
    It's going to get rejected flat out, then May and the EU can hold up there hands, say we tried to give you a deal, and then get down to the business of fucking up the UK with a no deal.

  11. #9171
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    Hmmms...

    I'm finding it hard to draw anything from the 585 page document.

    And the critical bullet point in the 7 page summary basically says, we're going to leave without a plan to solve an insoluble problem.

    So much unadulterated joy to be had here.
    It basically keeps things as they are, with a contribution to be defined until somebody comes up with a better plan
    It's an EFTA membership in all but name.

  12. #9172
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    Hmmms...

    I'm finding it hard to draw anything from the 585 page document.

    And the critical bullet point in the 7 page summary basically says, we're going to leave without a plan to solve an insoluble problem.

    So much unadulterated joy to be had here.
    I think many have been saying that the only short term solution is for the UK to regress to an EFTA membership until they can find some better way to work this out (which will take many years to be actionable). This is what it is. And then it is entirely on the UK's court to find a way to satisfy the EU that whatever they thought off does not violate the GFA, which judging by the incompetence UK politicians have shown, will take forever to happen.

    So yeah, why not just stay . . .
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  13. #9173
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    so really know: how much of that pamphlet will survive House of Commons tomorrow ?

    Rees-Mogg is already busy, sending out letters to conservative MP urging to turn down the deal, says the Guardian online.
    Well it depends. You have a very vocal bunch of MPs rooting for a hard brexit. The big question is whether the rest of them think a shitty deal is better than no deal.
    And let's be clear, any deal will be shitty in comparison to the current membership arrangements, but better than nothing.
    I wouldn't want to be a British MP right now. Pick rabies or cholera.

  14. #9174
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    So they can criticise, but do they have a better proposal that the EU would accept?
    Ah, but that's the one perk being in opposition has. You don't need to be constructive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    And I hope people like you are proud of yourselves you will be destroying so many lives and potentially future children's futures all because of pettyness, how you people sleep at night is beyond me.
    People with bad characters usually sleep rather well, unfortunately. And yes, I had to delete the word assholes and replace it. Because that would be mean.
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  15. #9175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    It's going to get rejected flat out, then May and the EU can hold up there hands, say we tried to give you a deal, and then get down to the business of fucking up the UK with a no deal.
    here's the letter by Rees-Mogg; he was speedy to deliver...

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/10...175360/photo/1

    already a waste of time: one third of cabinet spoke out against the deal in the discussion today. PM May will have to whip every ass to get a YAY on the matter in parliament, not going to happen. forget it

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/...01864494845952


    but behold this gem in May's statement after that nonsense of discussion:
    "She said the alternatives to the deal were a no deal Brexit, or not leaving the EU at all."
    if she is indeed open minded to call it off: tomorrow is her chance

  16. #9176
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    The Cabinet has backed Mays deal, which I don't think anyone saw coming, but there are probably resignations coming and looks like Mogg/BoJo are gearing up for another no confidence vote and a leadership battle.
    Impeccable timing, too. It's not like the nation can't afford a GE right now, right? We'll make sure to halt the rotation of the planet for them to sort it out.. Gnargh. It's like they want this to fail. Can they please be put in front of a judge when all of this is over? If I scam you, I get punished. But if someone scams and entire nation, he goes scot free... that's not fair.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  17. #9177
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Impeccable timing, too. It's not like the nation can't afford a GE right now, right? We'll make sure to halt the rotation of the planet for them to sort it out.. Gnargh. It's like they want this to fail. Can they please be put in front of a judge when all of this is over? If I scam you, I get punished. But if someone scams and entire nation, he goes scot free... that's not fair.
    Slant, I think we WILL. If they want a GE or want to conduct a referendum, the EU WILL give them an extension. It's already discussed, Barnier is in favor, Tusk and Juncker are in favor, the only one who spoke somewhat against it was Macron and even he said he'd be in favor with some unspecified conditions. That was pretty much a lifeline by the EU when they last met May and while she shot it down at that point, she definitely didn't forget it's there.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  18. #9178
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    So it basically sounds like we switch to the Norway model until both the EU and the UK are satisfied that the divorce is sufficiently hashed out, and the UK can also make trade deals during this time period, that go into effect when the EU and the UK eventually part ways.

    I mean it's not perfect but it's a damn sight better than a no deal.
    You realise that the irish problem isn't solved by this, right? Since it's a paradoxical problem, you will stay in Norway forever. Make all the trade deals that you want, but they'll never actually come into effect. This isn't a solution. It's just a way for the EU to put off having to be the bad guy. If Britain is going to suicide, it'll have to do that by itself.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  19. #9179
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    but behold this gem in May's statement after that nonsense of discussion:
    "She said the alternatives to the deal were a no deal Brexit, or not leaving the EU at all."
    if she is indeed open minded to call it off: tomorrow is her chance
    Ultimately perhaps it had to come to this, the very last moment, before she could dare to utter these words.
    Of course she won't get the votes in parliament for a referendum even if she wanted one; a lot of Tories will vote no, and Labour will shoot it down because they want a GE, not a referendum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You realise that the irish problem isn't solved by this, right? Since it's a paradoxical problem, you will stay in Norway forever. Make all the trade deals that you want, but they'll never actually come into effect. This isn't a solution. It's just a way for the EU to put off having to be the bad guy. If Britain is going to suicide, it'll have to do that by itself.
    It's worse than that. The EU gains a veto right on Brexit with this. They could legally keep the UK forever in an informal EFTA membership.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #9180
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Slant, I think we WILL. If they want a GE or want to conduct a referendum, the EU WILL give them an extension. It's already discussed, Barnier is in favor, Tusk and Juncker are in favor, the only one who spoke somewhat against it was Macron and even he said he'd be in favor with some unspecified conditions. That was pretty much a lifeline by the EU when they last met May and while she shot it down at that point, she definitely didn't forget it's there.
    You're probably right. I mean, I don't care. As long as I don't have to put up with silly border stops going to the UK, I don't give a fuck what they call themselves. I'm not interested in the political entity, I just want to meet friends or make vacation there. Or both.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

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