View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #9281
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    This argument never had much merit for me. See, take this:

    https://news.sky.com/story/bank-of-e...lapse-11566023

    Let's assume you're right and they are fearmongering... or, FEAR SCAREMONGERING, because true populism can only survive with the extreme. Anyway, the irony is that these aren't mere commentators. Neither is the Government. Or financial experts. Or, basically, the whole financial sectors and the industrial sectors.

    See, whether or not it's fearmongering doesn't matter. Because these are the people making the big decisions for the UK economy. It doesn't matter if you believe them or not. The only thing that matters to the head of BMW to move electrical vehicle R&D and production out of the UK is if he believes it. And he does. And that's why parts of your auto production for electric vehicles are moving out of the UK. By "parts" I mean "all of it", really.

    That's why you fail. Because you're not making decisions. You're a nobody. Your opinion is worth shit. And the opinion of a blogshitpage called order-order.com is also shit. I mean, who the fuck is that even?
    The same Treasury that was forced to activate Defcon 3 right after the referendum and promise they would throw billions at markets if needed to mitigate the chaos? Surely that was project fear back then too.

    On a different topic. What happened to the legal impact assessment the government had to share?
    Last edited by Demolitia; 2018-11-28 at 07:14 PM.

  2. #9282
    Elemental Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    8,360
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I mean... look, I'm not defending any part of this mess. But the UK did vote. And the UK is following the results of the vote. It sucks for everyone involved, but it's still a democracy.
    Democracy means that the members of parliament are elected representatives of the people. If our politicians were truly being democratic they would turn round and say "You know what, this is terrible for our country, it's people and the vast majority of them are against it anyway, we're not gonna do it!" not just soldier on into oblivion to line their pockets.

  3. #9283
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Belgium, Flanders
    Posts
    17,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    This argument never had much merit for me. See, take this:

    https://news.sky.com/story/bank-of-e...lapse-11566023

    Let's assume you're right and they are fearmongering... or, FEAR SCAREMONGERING, because true populism can only survive with the extreme. Anyway, the irony is that these aren't mere commentators. Neither is the Government. Or financial experts. Or, basically, the whole financial sectors and the industrial sectors.

    See, whether or not it's fearmongering doesn't matter. Because these are the people making the big decisions for the UK economy. It doesn't matter if you believe them or not. The only thing that matters to the head of BMW to move electrical vehicle R&D and production out of the UK is if he believes it. And he does. And that's why parts of your auto production for electric vehicles are moving out of the UK. By "parts" I mean "all of it", really.

    That's why you fail. Because you're not making decisions. You're a nobody. Your opinion is worth shit. And the opinion of a blogshitpage called order-order.com is also shit. I mean, who the fuck is that even?
    If BMW moves out, that's better for me personally and i'll gladly welcome a new electrical model coming to the netherlands means more work for me and more career growth chances internationally. Didn't hear that yet did hear that BMW position in Oxford was seriously hinged on the brexit deal outcome.

    But correct even if the brexit was a great deal for the economy this entire political spiel has internationally hurt the credibility and stability of the UK market, it has shown that the nation based on non binding referendum that was questionably democratic seeing how few of the population actually participated in it could over throw decades of stability, followed by political party struggles and in fighting. Who in their right mind would want to at this point invest in the UK when more stable options are out there?

    They might become a more fertile soil in the future but right now it has been scorched and salted and that won't change for the next decade, as what people forget that if Brexit no deal goes through in march, its going to take years to debate all possible deals that's why such a long period is attached to article 50. Time they royally squandered on anything but the actual brexit, including an election.

    Now anyone who claims the treasury is merely biased and playing games and prefers a fringe "news site" and i threw up a little just calling it that, says it all really. Not that the person has any actual credibility at this stage and is struggling badly to not come across as a far right lunatic. At the end of the day if they wish to keep fooling themselves, to put it bluntly it's their funeral come march not ours even though their will be blood letting.

  4. #9284
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Baden-Wuerttemberg
    Posts
    5,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I mean... look, I'm not defending any part of this mess. But the UK did vote. And the UK is following the results of the vote. It sucks for everyone involved, but it's still a democracy.
    a nice problem then. is parliament obliged to follow any decision or should parliament, when in doubt, better ask again ?
    or is parliament entitled to discard a referendum because it is also tasked to shield country and populace from harm ?

    it is a set of multi billion GBP questions, now have fun.

  5. #9285
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    a nice problem then. is parliament obliged to follow any decision or should parliament, when in doubt, better ask again ?
    or is parliament entitled to discard a referendum because it is also tasked to shield country and populace from harm ?

    it is a set of multi billion GBP questions, now have fun.
    It looks like experts and businesses are dismissed as fear-mongers, so just get on with it I guess?

  6. #9286
    Deleted
    Chair of the pro-Brexit European Research Group Jacob Rees-Mogg is not impressed with Mark Carney today.

    “The Bank of England is meant to be a cautious and dignified body - not one that gives out hysterical statements," he said in the House of Commons.

    “What they’ve said today lacks all credibility and is a regurgitation of project fear to come project hysteria.

    “I think it discredits the governor - who is basically a failed second rate Canadian politician who is talking down the pound which I think is unprecedented.”

    Prominent Brexiteer and former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith agrees.

    He told the BBC: “The bottom line of both sets of reports is that project fear like Frankenstein’s monster has been resuscitated and is stalking the land.”
    Back to dismissing experts and personal attacks for the Brexiteer crowd.

  7. #9287
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    a nice problem then. is parliament obliged to follow any decision or should parliament, when in doubt, better ask again ?
    or is parliament entitled to discard a referendum because it is also tasked to shield country and populace from harm ?

    it is a set of multi billion GBP questions, now have fun.
    The funny thing is the initial vote was specifically a NON BINDING referendum. For some reason they took this non binding referendum of barely half the population and took that as some kind of impermeable word of god that had to be followed. I am pretty sure if you put up what May just announced and said is this the brexit the people want they would not get a majority to vote in favor of it. The problem what leavers wanted in theory and the hard realities of mutually conflicting objectives basically made that impossible without serious problems like restarting the troubles in northern ireland. The people were sold a bill of goods and it is getting more and more obvious the final product is not going to look anything like what people voted for.

  8. #9288
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I mean... look, I'm not defending any part of this mess. But the UK did vote. And the UK is following the results of the vote. It sucks for everyone involved, but it's still a democracy.
    The whole point of having a non binding vote is YOU ARE NOT BOUND BY IT!

  9. #9289
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Back to dismissing experts and personal attacks for the Brexiteer crowd.
    Has the European Research Group published any of their findings and methodologies? 2 years of research should have yielded some sort of result, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    The whole point of having a non binding vote is YOU ARE NOT BOUND BY IT!
    Well Cameron said the result would be honored, as far as I remember

  10. #9290
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The point of representative democracy instead of direct democracy is that in complex societies the people largely cannot make informed choices so they choose people they can trust to make informed choices for them.
    Unfortunately, as a whole, the UK'S MP have proven to be unworthy of said trust.

  11. #9291
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,084
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    See, whether or not it's fearmongering doesn't matter.
    I understand that. However, as far as businesses go, very often you'll find that whilst Business A is moving out of the UK over Brexit, Business B thinks it's an investment opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And the opinion of a blogshitpage called order-order.com is also shit. I mean, who the fuck is that even?
    It's one of the biggest political blogs in the UK. He gets something like a quarter of a million unique visitors a week.
    Still not tired of winning.

  12. #9292
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Has the European Research Group published any of their findings and methodologies? 2 years of research should have yielded some sort of result, right?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Well Cameron said the result would be honored, as far as I remember
    Yup cameron screwed up in calling for the vote then screwed up treating the vote once it happened as if it was utterly binding because to do otherwise may have had his party lose power because they were stupid enough to hold the vote in the first place and then being a picture of courage he fucked right off and left somebody else to clean up the mess he made.

  13. #9293
    I am kinda with dawkins in that previously linked video as well. If you are going to hold a vote over something that has such major long lasting and probably irreversible repercussions that should require a super majority. If 60% of the people voting really want it then okay thats a pretty good indication your country wants to move in that direction. As it was barely 50% voted to leave and most of them were older people. Most of the younger people who will have to clean up the mess voted to remain because they liked the ability to easily and smoothly travel around europe.

  14. #9294
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    a nice problem then. is parliament obliged to follow any decision or should parliament, when in doubt, better ask again ?
    or is parliament entitled to discard a referendum because it is also tasked to shield country and populace from harm ?

    it is a set of multi billion GBP questions, now have fun.
    Moreover, should such a monumental shift in the direction of the country be decided by a simple majority vote? For us, the clear answer is no, because our participation is fixed on a constitutional level. Even if we allowed silly things as national referendums to have any binding power, a simple majority wouldn't be enough.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  15. #9295
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Well Cameron said the result would be honored, as far as I remember
    That would have made it binding, in which case the courts already decided that it would have been invalid.

  16. #9296
    Dreadlord Nigel Tufnel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Here lies David St. Hubbins, and why not?
    Posts
    839
    Are we no longer on Nazism?

    Good, good.

    I listened to Carney today. Then laughed at the pompous, twat of a Tory on R4 criticising him for making 'forecasts' when, actually, at the start of the speech Carney said: "These are scenarios not forecasts. They illustrate what could happen not necessarily what is most likely to happen."

    I swear to god, though. If the no-dealers do win, Carney's right, and house prices do drop by 30%; I'll be after Rees-Mogg and all of his ridiculously-named children with my pitchfork.

    That said, if house prices do drop by 30%, I'm sure the Millennials and iGen will be a lot happier.
    You can't really dust for vomit.

  17. #9297
    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    Are we no longer on Nazism?

    Good, good.

    I listened to Carney today. Then laughed at the pompous, twat of a Tory on R4 criticising him for making 'forecasts' when, actually, at the start of the speech Carney said: "These are scenarios not forecasts. They illustrate what could happen not necessarily what is most likely to happen."

    I swear to god, though. If the no-dealers do win, Carney's right, and house prices do drop by 30%; I'll be after Rees-Mogg and all of his ridiculously-named children with my pitchfork.

    That said, if house prices do drop by 30%, I'm sure the Millennials and iGen will be a lot happier.
    I guess you've not seen JRM's comments about Carney. https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...53557221785601

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    As the Scots said, it should have at least required a majority in each member of the Union. Which it didn't get since Scotland and NI voted it down.
    You can't see any flaws with that?

    I wonder if the Scots in question would be so keen on this proposal had 38,694,000 voters in England had all voted remain and 3,728,000 in Scotland, Wales and NI had voted to leave?
    Last edited by Pann; 2018-11-28 at 10:07 PM.

  18. #9298
    Dreadlord Nigel Tufnel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Here lies David St. Hubbins, and why not?
    Posts
    839
    In fact, while we're on the subject of Rees-Mogg.

    That his archaic, bigoted & homophobic views do not render him unelectable but actually make him extremely popular, sickens and shocks me.

    Somewhere, I read that he's now only polling second to BJ as successor to May.

    It's a damning indictment of the state of politics that this joke, this utter fucking joke of a human could be considered worthy of the role of PM.

    Edit....

    Literally, I am ashamed to be British at the moment.
    You can't really dust for vomit.

  19. #9299
    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    Yup cameron screwed up in calling for the vote then screwed up treating the vote once it happened as if it was utterly binding because to do otherwise may have had his party lose power because they were stupid enough to hold the vote in the first place and then being a picture of courage he fucked right off and left somebody else to clean up the mess he made.
    No, he made it binding to get back at his schoolyard rival Boris who pretended to be for leave to stick it to Camoron in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nigel Tufnel View Post
    That said, if house prices do drop by 30%, I'm sure the Millennials and iGen will be a lot happier.
    Why would they?
    The pound would probably drop by even more, so foreign investors would snap up all those cheap houses.
    After all, who is going to build more of those after the UK got rid of all the Poles?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I guess you've not seen JRM's comments about Carney. https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...53557221785601
    He referenced that comment in his fourth sentence which you did quote.
    Didn't read that far? Then do not quote the whole post as if you did.

  20. #9300
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Belgium, Flanders
    Posts
    17,435
    Some Tories are really looking to make bank on this misery that's called the brexit for the working class. Classy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •