View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #9821
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    So to sum up things so far:

    1. It was a bad idea to leave
    2. Britain is not going to get a good deal
    3. The country will be worse off if leaving happens

    Is this right? Since it seems to have been a huge mistake and there's time to undo it then just undo it?
    Pretty much the TLR version of it. For undo it, well basically every EU leader has said "If the UK says we've changed our minds we'll accept it, if it happens before March 29th."

  2. #9822
    I honestly think they will just take the deal offered. Between this deal and no deal, they'd go with this deal.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  3. #9823
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Regarding quotas, the UK fishermen can still avoid depleting the local supply if no one else is allowed within British waters and significantly increase their fishing; they'll just have to obey a new but much higher cap on volume since currently quotas for the local supply are apportioned to many countries, not just the UK.
    Personally I do believe the fishermen have a point, it was just poorly argued and debated by their non-existing MEPs. Fishing quotas should simply be recalculated much more frequently and the crux of the argument was that they were too old and disadvantaged the UK. CAP targets are revised quite more frequently, no reason fishing quotas should not be as well.
    Sorry to say Nym, I disagree with the fishermen in that regards.. sure if you want to yearly change quotas you can do it, but the state of the fish population in the North Sea is shockingly bad. They will need atleast 5 years of no fishing....at all...by...anyone.
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  4. #9824
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I honestly think they will just take the deal offered. Between this deal and no deal, they'd go with this deal.
    No deal that takes away my rights with freedom of movement is acceptable. For both British citizens and those in rest of EU.

    The fact the pm claims the deal is in all our interests shows how quickly she resorts to bullshit just like Johnson, farage etc.

  5. #9825
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Sorry to say Nym, I disagree with the fishermen in that regards.. sure if you want to yearly change quotas you can do it, but the state of the fish population in the North Sea is shockingly bad. They will need atleast 5 years of no fishing....at all...by...anyone.
    When I suggested a change for quotas more often (not necessarily annually) it was not about the total quota for everyone allowed to fish there but the distribution among all EU members. The TAC (Total Allowable Catch) is already changed annually for conservation purposes as it should be. Could it be lower? I guess but the TAC is calculated using scientific guidance.
    Fishing quotas by country by fish however, the relative stability, are a different beast. The TAC is allocated by country based on historic data from 1973-1978 ((EEC) Regulation No 170/83). Part of CFP reform considered should be the revision of this very old standard to account for changes due to quota trading and perhaps utilize statistics other than historic data by taking into account fleet sizes and giving emphasis to small vessels.

    I do ask though, is there a group of UK MEPs that keep raising this issue to the floor every session they can? I somehow doubt it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    No deal that takes away my rights with freedom of movement is acceptable. For both British citizens and those in rest of EU.

    The fact the pm claims the deal is in all our interests shows how quickly she resorts to bullshit just like Johnson, farage etc.
    It has nothing to do with whether this is a good deal or not. This is the deal, take it or leave it. I just don't think anyone will dare to try and reverse Brexit.
    And honestly while a referendum would be great for Remainers and if it goes Remain would be great for the economy, is it good for UK society? Because while I would expect Remain to win, it would win with a minor margin, maybe somewhat less slim than Leave but still minor. Your society will be even more divided. If there was a clear mandate in polls that Remain would win (e.g. 66%+) then yeah, overturn it. But if the country is still divided in half, then socially you are fucked from the moment Cameron gave people this referendum.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2018-11-23 at 08:09 AM.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  6. #9826
    Scarab Lord
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    Raab: staying in EU is better than May's Brexit deal

    Bwahahahah .... no shit, Sherlock

    Source: Guardian

  7. #9827
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Closest we have is Pann who I don't think is an actual Brexiteer but is happy to make the argument for whatever reason.
    I am against the tremendous amount of misinformation, lies, nation bashing and bullying that is posted in this thread this does not mean that I in any way support Brexit.

  8. #9828
    I think I've actually worked out the perfect resolution to the border issue with Ireland

    If we just invade and conquer it and declare it a new part of the UK instead, it basically solves all of our problems. (admittedly it might create a few new ones..)

    They even refused to join NATO, citing "neutrality" (as they knew we'd bail them out if needed) so they'd be completely fucked.

    No Hard Border needed! BOOM!
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  9. #9829
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I am against the tremendous amount of misinformation, lies, nation bashing and bullying that is posted in this thread this does not mean that I in any way support Brexit.
    It seems to me you're only against nation bashing if the perceived target is the UK.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I think I've actually worked out the perfect resolution to the border issue with Ireland

    If we just invade and conquer it and declare it a new part of the UK instead, it basically solves all of our problems. (admittedly it might create a few new ones..)

    They even refused to join NATO, citing "neutrality" (as they knew we'd bail them out if needed) so they'd be completely fucked.

    No Hard Border needed! BOOM!
    Article 42 of the Lisbon treaty disagrees with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  10. #9830
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    It seems to me you're only against nation bashing if the perceived target is the UK.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Article 42 of the Lisbon treaty disagrees with you.
    Damn, I knew there was SOME flaw with my plan..
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  11. #9831
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Damn, I knew there was SOME flaw with my plan..
    The thing is, this actually made rounds in this thread. So I just wanted to remind some people that there are already treaties dealing with just that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  12. #9832
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    while a referendum would be great for Remainers and if it goes Remain would be great for the economy, is it good for UK society? Because while I would expect Remain to win, it would win with a minor margin, maybe somewhat less slim than Leave but still minor. Your society will be even more divided. If there was a clear mandate in polls that Remain would win (e.g. 66%+) then yeah, overturn it. But if the country is still divided in half, then socially you are fucked from the moment Cameron gave people this referendum.
    That's why you set up a second referendum the way the first should have been set up: 60%+ required to win with 60%+ turnout required (numbers can be tweaked at desired). If neither option gets that, then you re-run it again in e.g. 10 years time and continue like that until the issue is actually settled.

    Massive societal changes like leaving the EU shouldn't be allowed to squeak past with tiny margins of victory. Cameron was an idiot for not safeguarding against it.

  13. #9833
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    It seems to me you're only against nation bashing if the perceived target is the UK.
    It does? Really? I suggest you either link some evidence for your accusation or apologise!

  14. #9834
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    That's why you set up a second referendum the way the first should have been set up: 60%+ required to win with 60%+ turnout required (numbers can be tweaked at desired). If neither option gets that, then you re-run it again in e.g. 10 years time and continue like that until the issue is actually settled.

    Massive societal changes like leaving the EU shouldn't be allowed to squeak past with tiny margins of victory. Cameron was an idiot for not safeguarding against it.
    I fully agree I just think that the division is real and will not be fixed and this is going to be a mess that UK society will carry decades away from now. If Brexit happens and things are just slightly less good (or clearly so) then Remainers will never forgive Leave and if somehow it is cancelled, Leave will never let it go. The referendum should never have happened unless you already knew there was a clear mandate for it: (
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  15. #9835
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I fully agree I just think that the division is real and will not be fixed and this is going to be a mess that UK society will carry decades away from now.
    I'd honestly say that's unlikely, as far as social division goes.

    The younger generations are overwhelmingly pro-EU. In a few decades time today's leavers will almost certainly be in the minority, purely because of demographics changes.

    Also worth noting that only a low 30% actually want to leave, factoring in participation. That means about 2/3rds of the country either don't care about leaving, or don't want to. The country is not as divided as the media like to pretend, and once the boomers and friends start dying in droves there should be a sharp correction towards Remain.
    Last edited by Drutt; 2018-11-23 at 04:19 PM.

  16. #9836
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It does? Really? I suggest you either link some evidence for your accusation or apologise!
    Oh, so you just happen to overlook Dribs drivels? How convenient...
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  17. #9837
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Oh, so you just happen to overlook Dribs drivels? How convenient...
    Overlook?
    People are actually bullying that poster.

  18. #9838
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Oh, so you just happen to overlook Dribs drivels? How convenient...
    That makes no sense whatsoever. Whatever Dribbles posts is solely Dribbles' responsibility and nothing to do with me or anyone else in this thread. I suggest that if you find Dribbles', or anyone else's, posts to be nation bashing then you bring this to attention of the moderators.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    Overlook?
    People are actually bullying that poster.
    Are you suggesting that certain people do not line up to insult Dribbles whenever he posts?

  19. #9839
    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    Overlook?
    People are actually bullying that poster.
    Oh yes, because he's the victim... rofl
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  20. #9840
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Are you suggesting that certain people do not line up to insult Dribbles whenever he posts?
    What response Dribbles gets is of no concern to me. They post for sock reaction, and they get it: everyone is happy.
    What I am suggesting is that you seem to regularly operate like a concern troll would.

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