View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #9841
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    That makes no sense whatsoever. Whatever Dribbles posts is solely Dribbles' responsibility and nothing to do with me or anyone else in this thread. I suggest that if you find Dribbles', or anyone else's, posts to be nation bashing then you bring this to attention of the moderators.
    How about you follow your own advice and take it up with the mods instead of whinging about nation bashing here then?
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  2. #9842
    How on Earth are you meant to talk about Brexit in any capacity without bashing the UK?
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  3. #9843
    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    What response Dribbles gets is of no concern to me. They post for sock reaction, and they get it: everyone is happy.
    What I am suggesting is that you seem to regularly operate like a concern troll would.
    Dribbles is not without blame however I find it tiresome reading through the constant replies, from people who are in many cases less informed than Dribbles, that don't even attempt to address what he has written in favour of throwing insults his way. Play the ball not the man. If people tried to address Dribbles' points or ignored him if they are unable to so the quality of this thread would be much higher.

    If you find my mentioning this twice to be concern trolling then so be it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    How on Earth are you meant to talk about Brexit in any capacity without bashing the UK?
    Oh, I dunno. I suppose not stating that you want the people of the UK to suffer or be victims of terrorism would be a start.

  4. #9844
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Dribbles is not without blame however I find it tiresome reading through the constant replies, from people who are in many cases less informed than Dribbles, that don't even attempt to address what he has written in favour of throwing insults his way. Play the ball not the man. If people tried to address Dribbles' points or ignored him if they are unable to so the quality of this thread would be much higher.

    If you find my mentioning this twice to be concern trolling then so be it.
    He has no points, that's the problem. We've done the whole "pick his source and prove him wrong only with his source" challenge for... oh, 100 pages or so before it got boring. What he does is spit out a fantasy from his head, google shit and link the first hit Google provides.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  5. #9845
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    If people tried to address Dribbles' points or ignored him if they are unable to so the quality of this thread would be much higher.
    If you find my mentioning this twice to be concern trolling then so be it.
    Show the thread the path and address them yourself like the nominal remainer that you are.

    I pointed out the pattern of behaviour before. We could compile a list or something, but:
    -I'm not that petty.
    -I don't think there's any use to it.
    -Ultimately, it's an issue of perception: it seems that way. You don't take measures to be perceived as anything but, and that's fine with me.

  6. #9846
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    How on Earth are you meant to talk about Brexit in any capacity without bashing the UK?
    I think I at least try to, but ultimately you cannot ignore some very unflattering facts; the extreme presence of the yellow press, the amateurish work by the political class and the fact that we have dribbles here who when pushed pretty much always ends up threatening war.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  7. #9847
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think I at least try to, but ultimately you cannot ignore some very unflattering facts; the extreme presence of the yellow press, the amateurish work by the political class and the fact that we have dribbles here who when pushed pretty much always ends up threatening war.
    Yeah I mean, I'm from the UK and I'd find it hard to stay in reality and not bash us, c'est la vie.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  8. #9848
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Brexitia
    Posts
    2,798
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Oh yes, because he's the victim... rofl
    Of course I am the victim, persecuted by the EU and constantly bashed by my beloved eurochums on here. It's only a deep sense of public service that keeps me going. I just accept that when people have lost the debate all that is left is to attack the messenger.

    Back on topic we are where we are and that is exactly here....

    Under both EU law and the UK's Withdrawal Act, Brexit day is chiselled into the diary for 11pm on 29 March, 2019.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46320368

    Even the BBC are using the word chiselled as the clock ticks by to an out of negotiating time default no deal.

    Don't be beating me up too much for bringing you the facts eurochums, you never know I just might quite like it!
    Brexiteers are the new remainers. To remain outside of the EU.

  9. #9849
    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    Show the thread the path and address them yourself like the nominal remainer that you are.

    I pointed out the pattern of behaviour before. We could compile a list or something, but:
    -I'm not that petty.
    -I don't think there's any use to it.
    -Ultimately, it's an issue of perception: it seems that way. You don't take measures to be perceived as anything but, and that's fine with me.
    Ah, it makes sense now. It was almost four months ago. Let it go.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Yeah I mean, I'm from the UK and I'd find it hard to stay in reality and not bash us, c'est la vie.
    It's nearly two and half years since the referendum surely the argument should have moved on from you guys are stupid?

  10. #9850
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It's nearly two and half years since the referendum surely the argument should have moved on from you guys are stupid?
    And its almost a thousand years since Hastings; doesn't make it not a fact. . .
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  11. #9851
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    And its almost a thousand years since Hastings; doesn't make it not a fact. . .
    I guess it would depend on which side of the fence you sit whether that qualifies as a fact or not. However the fact remains (no pun intended) that leave won the referendum and rehashing old arguments will not change anything and to be honest labelling something or someone that you disagree with as stupid is a little... stupid.

    Anyway my point is not to stop criticism but more frustration that the argument rarely rises above the UK is stupid.
    Last edited by Pann; 2018-11-23 at 08:09 PM.

  12. #9852
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Anyway my point is not to stop criticism but more frustration that the argument rarely rises above the UK is stupid.
    And I've yet to hear an argument for leave that wasn't quite easily picked apart other than "I don't really like foreigners" because that's an opinion (to which they have every right) so kinda impossible to pick apart. So all we have left was "It's fucking stupid".

    I know someone who had a personal reason for wanting Brexit - he was unable or unprepared to compete with Europeans who did the same job as him better/cheaper/faster and so wanted to restrict their access to the British market. Not really the strongest argument but at least the most honest/solid I've heard.

    The sovereignty thing is a fucking joke. We only had a referrendum to give people more representation a few years previously and it was rejected. People overall didn't want control over their own government, so to pretend this was in some way going to give us more control is . . . stupid.

    That coupled with the complete festival of clowns since the result came out and we're where we are.

    So like I said, its kinda hard to discuss it without bashing us. Shooting yourself in the foot doesn't even come close.
    Last edited by AeneasBK; 2018-11-23 at 08:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  13. #9853
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Anyway my point is not to stop criticism but more frustration that the argument rarely rises above the UK is stupid.
    In the same environment that produced the earlier accusation of concern-trolling-appearances, I implied that some people are saying things that they should really not. I share your frustration, but venting about it is also useless noise.
    Face it, banter across borders is a prominent (though not exclusive) feature of European cultures. I prefer to report what I feel crosses the line of acceptability rather than engage it.

    If you sieve through the chaff, there's some interesting bits anyway.
    This conclusion that @Nymrohd had about retaining the rights of citizens was well worth the development. As were some exchanges about austerity.

    So, dunno... keep picking on low hanging fruit... or don't... it's your call.
    Last edited by mmoc003aca7d8e; 2018-11-23 at 08:55 PM.

  14. #9854
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    And I've yet to hear an argument for leave that wasn't quite easily picked apart other than "I don't really like foreigners" because that's an opinion (to which they have every right) so kinda impossible to pick apart. So all we have left was "It's fucking stupid".

    I know someone who had a personal reason for wanting Brexit - he was unable or unprepared to compete with Europeans who did the same job as him better/cheaper/faster and so wanted to restrict their access to the British market. Not really the strongest argument but at least the most honest/solid I've heard.

    The sovereignty thing is a fucking joke. We only had a referrendum to give people more representation a few years previously and it was rejected. People overall didn't want control over their own government, so to pretend this was in some way going to give us more control is . . . stupid.

    That coupled with the complete festival of clowns since the result came out and we're where we are.

    So like I said, its kinda hard to discuss it without bashing us. Shooting yourself in the foot doesn't even come close.
    That's fair enough and although I think you are oversimplifying things to be honest I agree with the general premise of what you have written however how does this alter the current situation? It is quite obvious that remain voters think leaving is a stupid idea whilst leave voters think otherwise, simply repeating the same argument is not going to change that and if anything it appears that many have become even more entrenched in their views since the referendum.

    Ultimately this thread is about the negotiations so how does repeating that those who voted leave are stupid move the conversation on? And since the majority of UK posters are remain supporters it is pretty much a given that we agree that leaving is stupid.

    And as I have pointed out wishing people from the UK become victims of Irish terrorism or that they are made to suffer as a consequence of Brexit goes far beyond what is reasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    In the same environment that produced the earlier accusation of concern-trolling-appearances, I implied that some people are saying things that they should really not. I share your frustration, but venting about it is also useless noise.
    Face it, banter across borders is a prominent (though not exclusive) feature of European cultures. I prefer to report what I feel crosses the line of acceptability rather than engage it.

    If you sieve through the chaff, there's some interesting bits anyway.
    This conclusion that @Nymrohd had about retaining the rights of citizens was well worth the development. As were some exchanges about austerity.

    So, dunno... keep picking on low hanging fruit... or don't... it's your call.
    You have clearly misunderstood what I said in our exchange four months ago. My comment had absolutely nothing to do with sticking up for Floopa and instead was pointing out the irony of your post when you posted saying Floopa started it. As at the time I had suggested that the EU and the UK needed to work together in order to find a solution to the Irish border problem to which I was told by multiple people that this was not the case since the UK had started it.

    Why is complaining about the poor quality in this thread useless noise? We are all participants and as such we should be able to raise our game.

    I have no problem with banter but it's been two years and it's really tedious still reading that Brexit vote was stupid - we know! - let's move on and have an actual discussion about what is happening now.

  15. #9855
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    And as I have pointed out wishing people from the UK become victims of Irish terrorism or that they are made to suffer as a consequence of Brexit goes far beyond what is reasonable.
    Sure, but I'll alter it slightly - it's kinda hard to discuss the negotiations without bashing the UK. This move has made the EU weaker too, so snide pushbacks from any Europeans is hardly surprising or unwarranted.

    Yes "wishing" the terrorism is pointlessly over the line, but I'll be pretty surprised if zero bombs or a mass murder incident of a different nature (Truck O'Peace I guess) doesn't occur by the end of 2019, it's just their way of 'discussing' things.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  16. #9856
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    You have clearly misunderstood what I said in our exchange four months ago. My comment had absolutely nothing to do with sticking up for Floopa and instead was pointing out the irony of your post when you posted saying Floopa started it. As at the time I had suggested that the EU and the UK needed to work together in order to find a solution to the Irish border problem to which I was told by multiple people that this was not the case since the UK had started it.

    Why is complaining about the poor quality in this thread useless noise? We are all participants and as such we should be able to raise our game.

    I have no problem with banter but it's been two years and it's really tedious still reading that Brexit vote was stupid - we know! - let's move on and have an actual discussion about what is happening now.
    You are, still, not understanding why you should have taken it up with Floopa.
    I took you suggestion, explicitly as a given: the negotiation, which surely seeks a beneficial end for everyone.
    Nowhere do I mention "them starting it", rather that they were bringing the blame game in earnest to this thread. The betterment of the thread would be to address their non-point, rather than bitch about the response they were having.
    It's the same all over again: you have an opportunity to better this thread by addressing Dribbles. You are rejecting it, again, in favor of complaining about the responses others give. It is your request to address their points diligently or ignore it; while simultaneously not addressing them yourself, and not ignoring any misstep in the response. Lead by example, least you be perceived as concern trolling.

    It is noise because it is also not having an actual discussion about what is happening now.
    Last edited by mmoc003aca7d8e; 2018-11-23 at 09:35 PM.

  17. #9857
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Sure, but I'll alter it slightly - it's kinda hard to discuss the negotiations without bashing the UK. This move has made the EU weaker too, so snide pushbacks from any Europeans is hardly surprising or unwarranted.

    Yes "wishing" the terrorism is pointlessly over the line, but I'll be pretty surprised if zero bombs or a mass murder incident of a different nature (Truck O'Peace I guess) doesn't occur by the end of 2019, it's just their way of 'discussing' things.
    Surely the snide pushbacks only serve to convince Brexit supporters they are right and as a result are really rather counter-productive? Also I would suggest that if people wish to make snide comments at Brexit supporters there are better places than here - such as Order-Order.

  18. #9858
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Yes "wishing" the terrorism is pointlessly over the line, but I'll be pretty surprised if zero bombs or a mass murder incident of a different nature (Truck O'Peace I guess) doesn't occur by the end of 2019, it's just their way of 'discussing' things.
    There's a thousand ways to express this possibility.
    In here it's taken several forms. Among them a well-poisoning blame game. I told-you-so predictions. And actual desires for it to happen.
    This forum knows not bounds.

  19. #9859
    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    You are, still, not understanding why you should have taken it up with Floopa.
    I took you suggestion, explicitly as a given: the negotiation, which surely seeks a beneficial end for everyone.
    Nowhere do I mention "them starting it", rather that the betterment of the thread would be to address their non-point, rather than bitch about the response they were having.
    It's the same all over again: you have an opportunity to better this thread by addressing Dribbles. You are rejecting it, again, in favor of complaining about the responses others give. It is your request to address their points diligently or ignore it; while simultaneously not addressing them yourself, and not ignoring any misstep in the response. Lead by example, least you be perceived as concern trolling.

    It is noise because it is also not having an actual discussion about what is happening now.
    There was nothing for me to take up with Floopa, I read his/her post, thought it was nonsense and therefore I ignored it, as a result my posts had absolutely nothing to do with Floopa or anything Floopa posted. Anyway I am not going to rehash an argument from four months ago.

    Why would I address Dribbles? And how would addressing him and joining the cacophony of nonsense that follows each and every post he makes make this thread better? It appears you're back to he started it again and this is an complete waste of time.

  20. #9860
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Surely the snide pushbacks only serve to convince Brexit supporters they are right and as a result are really rather counter-productive? Also I would suggest that if people wish to make snide comments at Brexit supporters there are better places than here - such as Order-Order.
    If only politics worked as they tell you in high school...
    Reasoning.
    Convincing your opponents.
    :')

    This forum is an outlet for propaganda of every nature. It's, generally, not about seducing the other, but about rallying your brethren.
    Brexit is culturally driven by national sentiment. It's efficient for the average person to exploit that into its darkest corners of hatred for the other. And it is efficient for the politician to fuel that through fear: fear the consequences, fear your fellow Brit, fear the brexiteer.

    Should it be this way?. I don't think so.
    But (and this is just my short experience in this world) simply pointing it out doesn't break the cycle.

    Also, I dunno about you. But I would be angry at your political class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    And how would addressing him and joining the cacophony of nonsense that follows each and every post he makes make this thread better? It appears you're back to he started it again and this is an complete waste of time.
    Oh, no. You really should not address that source of inanity. Not the poster, nor the follow up.
    But, if you're so keen on picking low hanging fruit, pick on the rotten bits and cut the possibility of a follow up.

    I wouldn't know where to start, so I simply move along. And not care about who started the fire. In fact, reading it back, I didn't even bother to explain it further and disengaged.
    But, and this is key, you consistently pick up on these developments, at the same point: the response by someone on the pro-eu camp. Your alliances were kinda questioned last page (suggesting you make the brexit case, though I would disagree that you do). I'm simply reflecting on why this happens.
    Last edited by mmoc003aca7d8e; 2018-11-23 at 10:06 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •