[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Nigel Tufnel]

It's not really playing around, the Maces (the Lords get one as well), represent the Monarchs authority in Parliament and Parliament cannot legally be in session without the Mace in the room, so him attempting to remove it is basically saying "There's no point us being here unless we're going to deal with Brexit because nothing else matters at this point".

I can see how it would look farcical to anyone not in the UK though.

Yes, but I think we've gone beyond the point of needing symbolic gestures and into the realms of direct action. Fair enough, though, I'm not sure what he would of done with it - legged it round the chamber, pursued by Black Rod.

Who was that Labour MP who put a dent in it a couple of years back? Actually damaged it in anger... can't remember.

[Deleted]

Yes, but I think we've gone beyond the point of needing symbolic gestures and into the realms of direct action. Fair enough, though, I'm not sure what he would of done with it - legged it round the chamber, pursued by Black Rod.

Who was that Labour MP who put a dent in it a couple of years back? Actually damaged it in anger... can't remember.

Last time I remember it being a thing was when the Heathrow expansion debate was going on, don't think it was damaged though.

[Demolitia]

Those accounts don't take into consideration that half an EU refugee's income is typically repatriated to their home nation to support family and friends who can't manage to feed and survive themselves without it and thus removed from the UK economy forever.

A UK citizen of course doesn't do this and spends 100% of their earnings in the UK economy. So no, those accounts are fake too.

Let's direct our thoughts the great patriotic pensioners living in Spain, sending all their money back to the motherland.
You're really not in great shape today.

[Slant]

It's not really playing around, the Maces (the Lords get one as well), represent the Monarchs authority in Parliament and Parliament cannot legally be in session without the Mace in the room, so him attempting to remove it is basically saying "There's no point us being here unless we're going to deal with Brexit because nothing else matters at this point".

I can see how it would look farcical to anyone not in the UK though.

Oh, I get the symbology behind it, I just don't think he'd ever have made it out of the room. So all he achieved was getting himself expelled. Perhaps he wanted an early lunch or something?

[Mormolyce]

I see dribbles is dribbling shit again, must be overcompensating for the latest Brexit faceplant.

So I imagine this is probably it for May. Question is, do any of the wolves at her door really want her job, or is this all theater again?

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Oh, I get the symbology behind it, I just don't think he'd ever have made it out of the room. So all he achieved was getting himself expelled. Perhaps he wanted an early lunch or something?

Wasn't he walking? Previous attempts have involved running. Doubt he had any intention of making it out.

[Demolitia]

It's not really playing around, the Maces (the Lords get one as well), represent the Monarchs authority in Parliament and Parliament cannot legally be in session without the Mace in the room, so him attempting to remove it is basically saying "There's no point us being here unless we're going to deal with Brexit because nothing else matters at this point".

I can see how it would look farcical to anyone not in the UK though.

I understand the symbolism and the reason he did this. I know the pageantry is important but to be fair I was more shocked by the brutality of the comments directed at the PM yesterday. When that stuff is normal, but Bercow freaks out because somebody's picks Sauron's golden mace, something's wrong

[Slant]

Wasn't he walking? Previous attempts have involved running. Doubt he had any intention of making it out.

You're most likely right. The most exciting we had was our left party Die Linke (lit. The Left) holding up signs to protest something I forgot. And since that's against the house rules, they got expelled. They didn't even chant anything. It was probably the most German, anti-climactic and disappointing expulsion in the history of our Parliament.

Here's a video.. it's the first couple minutes and apparently it was about something, something Afghanistan peace protest...



I mean, isn't that just dull? :P

We used to have shout matches back in the 50s, when the Republic was young. Those must have been the days... and the riot the Greens created when they dared enter the house in jeans and pullovers instead of suits.

I guess we are boring as fuck. :P

[Kronik85]

I understand the symbolism and the reason he did this. I know the pageantry is important but to be fair I was more shocked by the brutality of the comments directed at the PM yesterday. When that stuff is normal, but Bercow freaks out because somebody's picks Sauron's golden mace, something's wrong

May's conduct yesterday was appalling. Yes the Commons can be bawdy at times but everything that was said to her yesterday was fair.

[Mormolyce]

You are aware there was this thing called the peace process right? Which resulted in the US president, the Prime Minister, the Taoiseach, the Queen (yes the fucking Queen), Prince Charles and Prince Philip also meeting IRA members.

I suppose her majesty is also a terrorist supporting shitbag in your deranged universe.

Extraordinary rendition that bitch to Guantanamo!

[Mormolyce]

You're most likely right. The most exciting we had was our left party Die Linke (lit. The Left) holding up signs to protest something I forgot. And since that's against the house rules, they got expelled. They didn't even chant anything. It was probably the most German, anti-climactic and disappointing expulsion in the history of our Parliament.

Here's a video.. it's the first couple minutes and apparently it was about something, something Afghanistan peace protest...



I mean, isn't that just dull? :P

We used to have shout matches back in the 50s, when the Republic was young. Those must have been the days... and the riot the Greens created when they dared enter the house in jeans and pullovers instead of suits.

I guess we are boring as fuck. :P

Check out the most exciting moment in Australian politics:



Hehehe, I just watched the UK video, they stop him leaving and he just politely hands it back. Most British protest ever.

[Kronik85]

So I imagine this is probably it for May. Question is, do any of the wolves at her door really want her job, or is this all theater again?

Nope, that's why she's still here. Corbyn doesn't want it, JRM doesn't want it, BoJo.....might? It would be a stupid move but he does seem to be getting really desperate for that Premiership he feels he's owed.

[dribbles]

Let's direct our thoughts the great patriotic pensioners living in Spain, sending all their money back to the motherland.
You're really not in great shape today.

What? Rich British pensioners who move to Spain remove from the UK economy £100,000's in capital built up over decades and £1000's in monthly pension income provided by the UK government which they then proceed to spend in the EU economy. This again is a win for the EU to the detriment of the UK.

If Corbyn gets in no doubt capital controls will be re-introduced that makes such a flight of outward wealth from the UK to the EU impossible.

EU refugees going the other way, in the millions, arrive on our shores with nothing, starving and homeless, and yet we take them in feed, cloth and house them again subsidising the irresponsible EU who have failed to provide any future for their poor souls.

The two groups are not financially the same.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Last time I remember it being a thing was when the Heathrow expansion debate was going on, don't think it was damaged though.

Ahh... it was the Poll Tax debate:

In 1988, Ron Brown, Labour MP for Leith, picked up the mace during a debate on the so-called poll tax and threw it to the floor in protest at the government's proposals. The mace was damaged, and Brown was ordered to pay £1,500 towards the cost of repairs.[23]

[Demolitia]

May's conduct yesterday was appalling. Yes the Commons can be bawdy at times but everything that was said to her yesterday was fair.

Probably. It's a good thing that the commons are a place were people can speak freely. There are not many places on earth where it would be considered remotely acceptable for members of parliament to speak like that to the head of state I think.

[Slant]

Probably. It's a good thing that the commons are a place were people can speak freely. There are not many places on earth where it would be considered remotely acceptable for members of parliament to speak like that to the head of state I think.

It literally is how most modern democracies work. Only some Parliaments are more civil than others. Or, let's say strict? In Italy, the British are probably seen as snobs that don't care about politics because they don't throw punches ever while in Germany, that kind of shouting randomly into the room would get a constant stream of stern rebukes from the President of the House and probably more than one warning.

Doesn't mean the Germans don't use the same kind of context, they just phrase it more subtly. But the accusations behind the language? Yeah, they're all the same. And the Italians aren't all raving mad, just because they get into a brawl once in a while. To them that's just social behaviour. :P

[Slant]

I mean it probably also has to do with how strict parliamentary protocol and regulations are. Those vary a lot by country.

Definitely, every House gives itself a code of conduct. But the messages are usually not so different. I'm really bad at phrasing right now...

[Deleted]

I understand the symbolism and the reason he did this. I know the pageantry is important but to be fair I was more shocked by the brutality of the comments directed at the PM yesterday. When that stuff is normal, but Bercow freaks out because somebody's picks Sauron's golden mace, something's wrong

May is entirely deserving of everything coming her way, she's talked up this deal as much as she can, and then when confronted with the reality that it'll never pass decides to delay instead of either leaving her position, calling another GE, or another referendum.

I honestly think she's done the best she can do with getting that deal from the EU, even if it is a completely shite deal, but her actions yesterday were complete cowardice, and she was rightly called out for it from all corners. And now she's off trying to negotiate with the EU even though they've already said they won't negotiate any further because she dare not do the proper thing and stand down.

As for Bercow making more about the Mace than the comments directed at May, it's his job to make sure debate flows smoothly (or as smoothly as things can run in Commons), but removing the Mace means that Parliament can't be in session at all. As far as I saw yesterday, it was just a usual day in Parliament, with the exception of the Mace business, i've seen far worse than what was directed at May.

[Slant]

May is entirely deserving of everything coming her way, she's talked up this deal as much as she can, and then when confronted with the reality that it'll never pass decides to delay instead of either leaving her position, calling another GE, or another referendum.

Not judging, but I found it constitutionally concerning that she can just delay the vote with the argument she didn't think she'd get the majority she needs. And further, I agreed with the MP asking if Parliament has the power to instruct the PM to do what Parliament decides upon. Not that they could ever agree on anything, by the looks of it, but could they? When does legislative stop and executive begin?

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It really is clear. There is no other deal to get. They can vote it down and then choose if they are willing to go with no deal or not. But SHE has to force that reality on them. It's her job.

Agreed, I keep waiting for her to put the cards on the table and explain to them how the EU works. Surely someone has to stand up at some point and explain to the House how the EU works, right? I mean, they all act like it's their choice in this...

[Deleted]

It really is clear. There is no other deal to get. They can vote it down and then choose if they are willing to go with no deal or not. But SHE has to force that reality on them. It's her job.

I'm pretty sure she has enforced that reality on them, and they were all geared up to vote, but then she's run off to the continent instead of standing by the deal she's been talking up. We need to get this vote done, if it's gonna get voted down, fine, lets get it voted down and then move on. I think it's finally setting in exactly how little time we have left, and time wasting at this point is just going to piss people off.

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Not judging, but I found it constitutionally concerning that she can just delay the vote with the argument she didn't think she'd get the majority she needs. And further, I agreed with the MP asking if Parliament has the power to instruct the PM to do what Parliament decides upon. Not that they could ever agree on anything, by the looks of it, but could they? When does legislative stop and executive begin?

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Agreed, I keep waiting for her to put the cards on the table and explain to them how the EU works. Surely someone has to stand up at some point and explain to the House how the EU works, right? I mean, they all act like it's their choice in this...

As far as i'm aware, Parliament can just straight up block Brexit if they want to, what they can't do is stop Article 50. They can draft a Bill that will force the Government to revoke Article 50, but they obviously have no power to actually stop Article 50 firing. And yeah, it is concerning that she's just decided that she's not going to have this vote, because it means, yet again, nothing can move forward.

The cards are already on the table, what May did yesterday was take her deal, and any chance of getting any sort of meaningful vote that could affect the future of the UK, and just run away.

Pure cowardice.

[Demolitia]

I'm pretty sure she has enforced that reality on them, and they were all geared up to vote, but then she's run off to the continent instead of standing by the deal she's been talking up. We need to get this vote done, if it's gonna get voted down, fine, lets get it voted down and then move on. I think it's finally setting in exactly how little time we have left, and time wasting at this point is just going to piss people off.

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As far as i'm aware, Parliament can just straight up block Brexit if they want to, what they can't do is stop Article 50. They can draft a Bill that will force the Government to revoke Article 50, but they obviously have no power to actually stop Article 50 firing. And yeah, it is concerning that she's just decided that she's not going to have this vote, because it means, yet again, nothing can move forward.

The cards are already on the table, what May did yesterday was take her deal, and any chance of getting any sort of meaningful vote that could affect the future of the UK, and just run away.

Pure cowardice.

Cowardice on all sides. She probably sees it as her duty to get that deal through because no deal will be a nightmare.
The EU said they are no renegotiating, which she probably already knew, so I can of understand her move, even if it is questionable. Just trying to get what she thinks is best under the circumstances.
They can always go for the no confidence motion but nobody seems to be willing to take over.