[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Noradin]

The point of representative democracy instead of direct democracy is that in complex societies the people largely cannot make informed choices so they choose people they can trust to make informed choices for them.

Unfortunately, as a whole, the UK'S MP have proven to be unworthy of said trust.

[Teleros]

See, whether or not it's fearmongering doesn't matter.

I understand that. However, as far as businesses go, very often you'll find that whilst Business A is moving out of the UK over Brexit, Business B thinks it's an investment opportunity.

And the opinion of a blogshitpage called order-order.com is also shit. I mean, who the fuck is that even?

It's one of the biggest political blogs in the UK. He gets something like a quarter of a million unique visitors a week.

[kaid]

Has the European Research Group published any of their findings and methodologies? 2 years of research should have yielded some sort of result, right?

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Well Cameron said the result would be honored, as far as I remember

Yup cameron screwed up in calling for the vote then screwed up treating the vote once it happened as if it was utterly binding because to do otherwise may have had his party lose power because they were stupid enough to hold the vote in the first place and then being a picture of courage he fucked right off and left somebody else to clean up the mess he made.

[Nymrohd]

The whole point of having a non binding vote is YOU ARE NOT BOUND BY IT!

And that is silly. Sure it is not legally binding. But you don't announce a referendum, debate and campaign for it constantly for half a year or more, get the people to come and vote and then tell them you will take their opinion into consideration. Better to just not ask the question.

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Unfortunately, as a whole, the UK'S MP have proven to be unworthy of said trust.

I mean, I could say that of many countries. But that is the point of representative democracy.

Well part of it. You see in a representative democracies, MPs are supposed to be constantly advised by experts on every topic they are going to vote so they can make informed decisions. I think that may be were we hit a snag.

[kaid]

I am kinda with dawkins in that previously linked video as well. If you are going to hold a vote over something that has such major long lasting and probably irreversible repercussions that should require a super majority. If 60% of the people voting really want it then okay thats a pretty good indication your country wants to move in that direction. As it was barely 50% voted to leave and most of them were older people. Most of the younger people who will have to clean up the mess voted to remain because they liked the ability to easily and smoothly travel around europe.

[Slant]

a nice problem then. is parliament obliged to follow any decision or should parliament, when in doubt, better ask again ?
or is parliament entitled to discard a referendum because it is also tasked to shield country and populace from harm ?

it is a set of multi billion GBP questions, now have fun.

Moreover, should such a monumental shift in the direction of the country be decided by a simple majority vote? For us, the clear answer is no, because our participation is fixed on a constitutional level. Even if we allowed silly things as national referendums to have any binding power, a simple majority wouldn't be enough.

[Nymrohd]

Moreover, should such a monumental shift in the direction of the country be decided by a simple majority vote? For us, the clear answer is no, because our participation is fixed on a constitutional level. Even if we allowed silly things as national referendums to have any binding power, a simple majority wouldn't be enough.

As the Scots said, it should have at least required a majority in each member of the Union. Which it didn't get since Scotland and NI voted it down.

[Noradin]

Well Cameron said the result would be honored, as far as I remember

That would have made it binding, in which case the courts already decided that it would have been invalid.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Are we no longer on Nazism?

Good, good.

I listened to Carney today. Then laughed at the pompous, twat of a Tory on R4 criticising him for making 'forecasts' when, actually, at the start of the speech Carney said: "These are scenarios not forecasts. They illustrate what could happen not necessarily what is most likely to happen."

I swear to god, though. If the no-dealers do win, Carney's right, and house prices do drop by 30%; I'll be after Rees-Mogg and all of his ridiculously-named children with my pitchfork.

That said, if house prices do drop by 30%, I'm sure the Millennials and iGen will be a lot happier.

[Pann]

Are we no longer on Nazism?

Good, good.

I listened to Carney today. Then laughed at the pompous, twat of a Tory on R4 criticising him for making 'forecasts' when, actually, at the start of the speech Carney said: "These are scenarios not forecasts. They illustrate what could happen not necessarily what is most likely to happen."

I swear to god, though. If the no-dealers do win, Carney's right, and house prices do drop by 30%; I'll be after Rees-Mogg and all of his ridiculously-named children with my pitchfork.

That said, if house prices do drop by 30%, I'm sure the Millennials and iGen will be a lot happier.

I guess you've not seen JRM's comments about Carney. https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...53557221785601

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As the Scots said, it should have at least required a majority in each member of the Union. Which it didn't get since Scotland and NI voted it down.

You can't see any flaws with that?

I wonder if the Scots in question would be so keen on this proposal had 38,694,000 voters in England had all voted remain and 3,728,000 in Scotland, Wales and NI had voted to leave?

[Nymrohd]

I guess you've not seen JRM's comments about Carney. https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...53557221785601

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You can't see any flaws with that?

No? If you respect the individual nations that join to make the United Kingdom, you give them a veto for the really important stuff. Like the EU does.

[Nigel Tufnel]

In fact, while we're on the subject of Rees-Mogg.

That his archaic, bigoted & homophobic views do not render him unelectable but actually make him extremely popular, sickens and shocks me.

Somewhere, I read that he's now only polling second to BJ as successor to May.

It's a damning indictment of the state of politics that this joke, this utter fucking joke of a human could be considered worthy of the role of PM.

Edit....

Literally, I am ashamed to be British at the moment.

[Noradin]

Yup cameron screwed up in calling for the vote then screwed up treating the vote once it happened as if it was utterly binding because to do otherwise may have had his party lose power because they were stupid enough to hold the vote in the first place and then being a picture of courage he fucked right off and left somebody else to clean up the mess he made.

No, he made it binding to get back at his schoolyard rival Boris who pretended to be for leave to stick it to Camoron in the first place.

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That said, if house prices do drop by 30%, I'm sure the Millennials and iGen will be a lot happier.

Why would they?
The pound would probably drop by even more, so foreign investors would snap up all those cheap houses.
After all, who is going to build more of those after the UK got rid of all the Poles?

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I guess you've not seen JRM's comments about Carney. https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...53557221785601

He referenced that comment in his fourth sentence which you did quote.
Didn't read that far? Then do not quote the whole post as if you did.

[Acidbaron]

Some Tories are really looking to make bank on this misery that's called the brexit for the working class. Classy.

[Pann]

No? If you respect the individual nations that join to make the United Kingdom, you give them a veto for the really important stuff. Like the EU does.

Really? You don't see the problem with a vote from NI being worth more than 30 votes from England?

[Nigel Tufnel]

The pound would probably drop by even more, so foreign investors would snap up all those cheap houses.
After all, who is going to build more of those after the UK got rid of all the Poles?

I don't know about that... which "foreign investors" are going to want to "invest" in the UK?

[Acidbaron]

Really? You don't see the problem with a vote from NI being worth more than 30 votes from England?

That's how it works in all nation's build out of several regions. Belgium's french half vote also counts more than a Dutch one in Federal elections due to them being a minority in the nation.

[Nigel Tufnel]

In short - my glass is not exactly half full this eve..... probably more 99% empty.

If a no-dealer can convince me why Carney's 'disorderly Brexit scenario' is project fear at its best, please do so.

Because at the moment, all I want to do is kill racist baby boomers.

[Nymrohd]

Really? You don't see the problem with a vote from NI being worth more than 30 votes from England?

If you want to consider yourself a composite of equal nations, no, I don't.

[Pann]

I don't know about that... which "foreign investors" are going to want to "invest" in the UK?

We are still the fifth or sixth biggest economy on the planet, all this doom and gloom that no-one will want to invest in the UK is as realistic as the claims that we will be rich beyond the dreams of Avarice because we signed a FTA with the Democratic Republic of Congo.