[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[ranzino]

Oh, longer than a decade ago. I don't dare set foot in that country these days. :P

ah, makes sense ESTA is now 14$ fee; UK travelers to EU should be glad to pay only 6 GDP.

[Vankrys]

interesting video, learning a few things about WTO and other things.

recommended watch for people on both side of the Brexit divide.

[Kallisto]

interesting video, learning a few things about WTO and other things.

recommended watch for people on both side of the Brexit divide.

damn you beating me to a post I was going to make.

But seriously, people need to watch this without thinking "Project fear, we're UK number 1!!!!!!!." 7 and 8 are the most worrying though.

[Acidbaron]

interesting video, learning a few things about WTO and other things.

recommended watch for people on both side of the Brexit divide.

When a no deal happens, i want to thank the UK of being the sacrificial lamb for strengthening the unity in Europe. So it's not all bad news, well at least for people outside the UK, those living abroad with pensions coming from the UK and so forth.

[Deleted]

interesting video, learning a few things about WTO and other things.

recommended watch for people on both side of the Brexit divide.

This video is exactly what people should be using to influence a 2nd referendum. Its factual and correctly spells out how dog eat dog the world is outside the EU.
I wish this kind of thing was used rather than the unknown fearmongering, whether there will be medicine shortages or not can be argued with, no rational person can refute this video.

[Kiri]

This video is exactly what people should be using to influence a 2nd referendum. Its factual and correctly spells out how dog eat dog the world is outside the EU.
I wish this kind of thing was used rather than the unknown fearmongering, whether there will be medicine shortages or not can be argued with, no rational person can refute this video.

You will have a lot of irrational people refuting it though. They will do so loudly and boisterously, looking for some tiny inconsistency in it and trying to convince everyone that it is all a lie. A fact, to many voters, is only as factual as they believe it to be. For every video like this, you will have 10 facebook posts repeating lies and half-truths and people will believe those. If they will even watch a 30 minute video of someone talking about complex things to begin with. Which many will not.

[Acidbaron]

This video is exactly what people should be using to influence a 2nd referendum. Its factual and correctly spells out how dog eat dog the world is outside the EU.
I wish this kind of thing was used rather than the unknown fearmongering, whether there will be medicine shortages or not can be argued with, no rational person can refute this video.

There is very little common ground between rational thought and those who voted to leave. As a vote for the leave campaign was based off emotions nothing more, being it fear of immigrants or delusion in believing the UK was still at its peak, or simply people who are nostalgic for the colonial times what puts them back in the camp of fear of immigrants.

[Acidbaron]

Do you work in medicine bub? No I thought not now if you did like I do you would understand that there is already a medicine shortage NOT because it's not available but because the NHS has made so many cutback in preperation for Brexit to try and withstand the blow thats going to cause, That suppliers have stopped ordering the stock in so suppliers with no stock means Pharmacies and Hospitals with a shortage of medicine, see how simple that is?

Not sure that's the correct way of the NHS to go about it. As the pound will most likely drop further in value compared to the euro and dollar making it even harder to purchase pharmaceuticals in a post brexit scenario.

[Kallisto]

This video is exactly what people should be using to influence a 2nd referendum. Its factual and correctly spells out how dog eat dog the world is outside the EU.
I wish this kind of thing was used rather than the unknown fearmongering, whether there will be medicine shortages or not can be argued with, no rational person can refute this video.

As the poster above me stated it wouldn't have mattered. Many people who voted Brexit have empire mentality on them. That somehow the UK is still the centre of a massive block of nations in of itself and can push its weight around. It would get countries like India, Pakistan, Australia, NZ, South Africa and other commonwealth countries back to heel. (This is why "We're not an empire anymore." comment came about. We know the brexiteers are not saying we're still the empire. But without the empire we don't have the influence we had over nations when we were, which they don't seem to get.).

[Amalaric]

As the poster above me stated it wouldn't have mattered. Many people who voted Brexit have empire mentality on them. That somehow the UK is still the centre of a massive block of nations in of itself and can push its weight around. It would get countries like India, Pakistan, Australia, NZ, South Africa and other commonwealth countries back to heel. (This is why "We're not an empire anymore." comment came about. We know the brexiteers are not saying we're still the empire. But without the empire we don't have the influence we had over nations when we were, which they don't seem to get.).

Pakistan is allied with China and South Africa hates whites... good luck there brits.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Pakistan is allied with China and South Africa hates whites... good luck there brits.

I really wouldn't make comments like that, it looks bad in the newspapers and upsets civilians at their breakfast.

And remember: we're not gods - we're Englishmen, which is the next best thing.

Sometimes I think posters like you just want to watch the world burn.

[Acidbaron]

Pakistan is allied with China and South Africa hates whites... good luck there brits.

Awh how cute, his baiting efforts in his own threads didn't yield enough results so you move elsewhere! Good luck whoring for attention!

[Deleted]

Realistically, this game of UK politics is actually boring.

There is no EU-UK deal that would pass through the House of Commons short of a magical unicorn. May tried to go to the EU and ask them if she could mention that magical unicorns might grow on Venus to swing the vote and they said no. So she will need to go back, after already admitting the vote will fail, and ask for a vote anyway .

So after this, the country will be put in a no-deal scenario. This is where the other parties will make a move, and call for a vote of no confidence in parliament. Now, while everyone agrees the deal vote will fail in parliament, none can be 100% sure what the no confidence vote will end up with because deep inside no Tory or DUP member will ever want to lose power. If the no confidence vote passes-->general elections (and I doubt anyone can predict those , i mean lets be serious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...lection#2018_2).

In the more likely scenario that the VONC fails, there isn't anything left to say or do than prepare for no-deal brexit on March 29th. Which isn't even legal(see Irish Border dispute, but who cares about that) and is in no way profitable for the common British person. Neither of this are options that anyone would of voted for in 2016(I hope?), but here we are, but to me this is boring because its basic politics and powermongering 101.

[Acidbaron]

Realistically, this game of UK politics is actually boring.

There is no EU-UK deal that would pass through the House of Commons short of a magical unicorn. May tried to go to the EU and ask them if she could mention that magical unicorns might grow on Venus to swing the vote and they said no. So she will need to go back, after already admitting the vote will fail, and ask for a vote anyway .

So after this, the country will be put in a no-deal scenario. This is where the other parties will make a move, and call for a vote of no confidence in parliament. Now, while everyone agrees the deal vote will fail in parliament, none can be 100% sure what the no confidence vote will end up with because deep inside no Tory or DUP member will ever want to lose power. If the no confidence vote passes-->general elections (and I doubt anyone can predict those , i mean lets be serious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...lection#2018_2).

In the more likely scenario that the VONC fails, there isn't anything left to say or do than prepare for no-deal brexit on March 29th. Which isn't even legal(see Irish Border dispute, but who cares about that) and is in no way profitable for the common British person. Neither of this are options that anyone would of voted for in 2016(I hope?), but here we are, but to me this is boring because its basic politics and powermongering 101.

May actually went back to the EU and had nothing prepared (deja vu anyone?) so they didn't say no since they had nothing to say no to.

No deal does appear the most likely scenario at this stage, is there even time to hold a general election and form a government?

[Kallisto]

May actually went back to the EU and had nothing prepared (deja vu anyone?) so they didn't say no since they had nothing to say no to.

No deal does appear the most likely scenario at this stage, is there even time to hold a general election and form a government?

I think 25 days is the absolute minimum required for one.

[Deleted]

Do you work in medicine bub? No I thought not now if you did like I do you would understand that there is already a medicine shortage NOT because it's not available but because the NHS has made so many cutback in preperation for Brexit to try and withstand the blow thats going to cause, That suppliers have stopped ordering the stock in so suppliers with no stock means Pharmacies and Hospitals with a shortage of medicine, see how simple that is?

Let me clear up my comment. Brexiteers can feasably argue the medicine shortage can be fixed by basically throwing money at it, i am not saying its not a concern as i believe it is but it is far easier to say that we are overexaggerating an issue which atm we really dont know how bad it can be, could be fat worse than anyone concieves, than it is to argue against a video of how the wto works right now.

Just for reference i dont work in medicine but almost all of my family do and i see all their arguments shot down because "how can you see into the future?" Etc.

I like the video as it could shift the people in the middle, the unsures, the ones who mistakenly believe no deal = status quo. I know it wont alter the opinions of the brexiteers but that 17.4 million is still the minority.

[Slant]

Realistically, this game of UK politics is actually boring.

There is no EU-UK deal that would pass through the House of Commons short of a magical unicorn. May tried to go to the EU and ask them if she could mention that magical unicorns might grow on Venus to swing the vote and they said no. So she will need to go back, after already admitting the vote will fail, and ask for a vote anyway .

So after this, the country will be put in a no-deal scenario. This is where the other parties will make a move, and call for a vote of no confidence in parliament. Now, while everyone agrees the deal vote will fail in parliament, none can be 100% sure what the no confidence vote will end up with because deep inside no Tory or DUP member will ever want to lose power. If the no confidence vote passes-->general elections (and I doubt anyone can predict those , i mean lets be serious https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...lection#2018_2).

In the more likely scenario that the VONC fails, there isn't anything left to say or do than prepare for no-deal brexit on March 29th. Which isn't even legal(see Irish Border dispute, but who cares about that) and is in no way profitable for the common British person. Neither of this are options that anyone would of voted for in 2016(I hope?), but here we are, but to me this is boring because its basic politics and powermongering 101.

See, one outside the UK could argue that the vast majority of your post described internal UK bickering over political positions. In the meantime, they use the EU membership as the sledgehammer to chip away at the PM post that they are really after.

Doesn't that tell you something about why this business is so one-sided?

- - - Updated - - -

Let me clear up my comment. Brexiteers can feasably argue the medicine shortage can be fixed by basically throwing money at it, i am not saying its not a concern as i believe it is but it is far easier to say that we are overexaggerating an issue which atm we really dont know how bad it can be, could be fat worse than anyone concieves, than it is to argue against a video of how the wto works right now.

Just for reference i dont work in medicine but almost all of my family do and i see all their arguments shot down because "how can you see into the future?" Etc.

I like the video as it could shift the people in the middle, the unsures, the ones who mistakenly believe no deal = status quo. I know it wont alter the opinions of the brexiteers but that 17.4 million is still the minority.

That's the problem, though. You're not arguing against a video. He's not the genius that came up with this. It's all in the rulebook of the WTO. It's in the treaties of international trade. It's legal facts, for everyone to read, because they're all in the public domain. The whole notion that you're just "arguing a video" that is sort of opinionising a collection of factual statements is the entire core of the problem.

People keep suggesting that everything is an opinion. Physics is an opinion (yes, you damn flat earthers, I'm talking about you lot), political realities are opinions (Brexit and GFA being incompatible with each other) and heck, lawbooks are really just opinions, too. And when reality hits them, they feel betrayed, because you're not supposed to actually enforce your opinion, mate. You're supposed to accept that they have a different view than yours. Anything else would just be unfair.

That is your problem. Fix that. It's your only hope. You have to make people grow up and become adults. This isn't fun and games anymore. It's not a silly internet debate on an even sillier internet forum. You are deciding now how your children will grow up. That's what you're doing.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Police fear widespread violent riots if "No Deal" happens: due to medicine and food shortages in the UK; considering asking the military to be on standby to help them maintain order.

"The police also are planning for enforced rationing in supermarkets and shops: only allowing people to purchase a maximum amount of items / day."

Well this is the thing isn't it. No-one knows. Pann thinks life will continue, more or less, as normal. I'm a pessimist and think that there could well be unrest the likes of which this country hasn't seen before. Maybe the reality would be somewhere in between. However, I sure as fuck don't want to find out.

So - what now? Do we have to wait until Jan 21st for May to present Parliament with a my deal or no deal scenario? Or will the sensible members of the opposition get their shit together?

[Kronik85]

Well this is the thing isn't it. No-one knows. Pann thinks life will continue, more or less, as normal. I'm a pessimist and think that there could well be unrest the likes of which this country hasn't seen before. Maybe the reality would be somewhere in between. However, I sure as fuck don't want to find out.

So - what now? Do we have to wait until Jan 21st for May to present Parliament with a my deal or no deal scenario? Or will the sensible members of the opposition get their shit together?

Our opposition is so poor atm that the dead are rising from their graves and giving speeches on their behalf. GJ Corbyn and co.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Well this is the thing isn't it. No-one knows. Pann thinks life will continue, more or less, as normal. I'm a pessimist and think that there could well be unrest the likes of which this country hasn't seen before. Maybe the reality would be somewhere in between. However, I sure as fuck don't want to find out.

So - what now? Do we have to wait until Jan 21st for May to present Parliament with a my deal or no deal scenario? Or will the sensible members of the opposition get their shit together?

What can they do, exactly? All group together and...err....still get outvoted by the Tories and the DUP?

As long as the pro EU Tories stick to their party sufficiently to avoid breaking them completely (and they've shown already that when push comes to shove, they cave and side with May) and the DUP stick to their aggreement (which they've said they will unless May's deal gets agreed) they is literally fuck all the opposition can do to steer events.

So lets wait until the May deal gets voted down, and then it's up to the government where we go next; no-deal, no-Brexit or second referendum. If they go no-deal, then the Tory pro-EU faction will have no choice but the side with the opposition. If they go no-Brexit, I'm pretty sure enough opposition votes will come their way even if the Brexiteers vote against it to let that go through. Same with the second referendum. If Labour are still sitting on the fence when it comes to those votes, you have a right to complain (and I will be shouting right next to you). Until then, it's in May's hands for now. There isn't much practically that the opposition can do.