View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #11041
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    No, I would have thought, assuming she loses, that it would be concluded by the beginning of January. As for the ERG I have absolutely no idea what they are playing at.
    It is about destabilising her, more than she already is, so that they can run the clock out of time to achieve that managed or not no deal.

    If she loses, unlikely, job done. If she wins, likely, the smaller the majority of that win the less authority she has for her hated EU deal.

    And even if she wins it is likely a further no confidence vote will be tabled by Corbyn very shortly.

  2. #11042
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    By the same token if they leave, the other half feels betrayed.

    The UK just needs to get its shit together really.
    From the EU's perspective, the advantage here is that it's no longer our problem.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  3. #11043
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Referendum was two years ago.
    Wasn't the public vote I was referencing last year.

  4. #11044
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Wasn't the public vote I was referencing last year.
    I think you're thinking of the snap election there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  5. #11045
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Yes, I might have been a bit ambitious by saying the beginning of January but it won't take long. For example Cameron resigned on the 24th June and May took over on 11th July.

    Given how unpredictable things have been up until this point I really don't think there is anyway to 2nd guess how things will go until we know who is going to put their name forward.
    It took 3 weeks to change leader last time with little else going on and where all but 1 candidate withdrew before they even took a vote to their membership. In other words, it was extremely clean.

    First off, it's now Christmas time, that will slow everything down and if the membership has to be included that almost certainly can't happen and till after the new year, logistically speaking.

    If May loses, I'd be suprised if they were done with this until late January at the earliest.

    At that point whoever is in charge needs to go to Brussels and organise a deal in 2 months, something May has been incabaple of doing in over 2 years.

  6. #11046
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I think you're thinking of the snap election there.
    I was, and used it to parody this attempt at a leadership coup, saying that it means people who voted in the last GE for May to lead the Brexit negotiations would have their "will of the people" ignored as JRM and co would be giving them something other than what they voted for.

    Basically every argument they've used to not have a people's vote, or second referendum, has been made to look total bollocks by this action today.

  7. #11047
    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo101 View Post
    If May loses, I'd be suprised if they were done with this until late January at the earliest.

    At that point whoever is in charge needs to go to Brussels and organise a deal in 2 months, something May has been incabaple of doing in over 2 years.
    The EU will not renegotiate. Change in leadership or not. That's an internal issue, the deal stands and there will be no other deal. Just to clear that misconception up, because somehow people are still not believing the EU when they have nothing but repeated this mantra for the last 2 weeks.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  8. #11048
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaira View Post
    I just read if she loses there’s only 2 feasible options and that extend a50 or rescind brexit a hard brexit isn’t even on the table.

    Also after reading that Kate whatsherfaces tweet and some of the comments they all seem out of touch with reality and need anti psychotic medicine.
    Bad news for you I'm afraid, the will of the people was made the law of the land. We leave, by law, on 29th March 2019 and parliament has no time left to stop that - deal or no deal.

    Can you see a deal in the pipeline? No me neither, perhaps Father Christmas will drop one down the chimney. If he does or doesn't we leave on that fixed date.

  9. #11049
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Bad news for you I'm afraid, the will of the people was made the law of the land. We leave, by law, on 29th March 2019 and parliament has no time left to stop that - deal or no deal.

    Can you see a deal in the pipeline? No me neither, perhaps Father Christmas will drop one down the chimney. If he does or doesn't we leave on that fixed date.
    Absolute rubbish. A50 can be rescinded

  10. #11050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Absolute rubbish. A50 can be rescinded
    i hope it doesn't.
    the u.k has always wanted membership privileges without the full commitment. Let them leave and let them suffer. They brought this shit on themselves when they lied to and misinformed their citizens about what leaving the E.U would do.

  11. #11051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The EU will not renegotiate. Change in leadership or not. That's an internal issue, the deal stands and there will be no other deal. Just to clear that misconception up, because somehow people are still not believing the EU when they have nothing but repeated this mantra for the last 2 weeks.
    I was kind of describing what happens from the UK point of view... The EU may give up a few concessions but they will surely want something in exchange and, of course, they aren't going to change anything fundamental.

    If May loses this vote there is 2 choices.
    a) No deal Brexit
    b) the UK rescinded A50 and becomes the laughing stock of world diplomacy.

  12. #11052
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Absolute rubbish. A50 can be rescinded
    Not without a majority in the house it can't. Have you seen a majority for anything recently? Who would propose such a heinous thing? They'd be signing their political death warrant even considering doing such a thing against the will of the people. I suppose a dictator might consider going against the brexit referendum, just struggling to come up with the name of such an MP in parliament. Got any names in mind?

  13. #11053
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    And the public voted with May getting the majority (albeit slender, and smaller than she went in with) in an election she made all about herself.

    Now a handful of MPs are trying to change that into something no one voted for. While all the while moaning about how the deal isn't what people voted for.

    And also attempting to overturn their own party's vote from 2 years ago, because they don't like the outcome. But tell people that because they don't like the result of another vote from two years ago, they can't have it again.


    I'm not sure how you're not seeing the humour in this hypocrisy.
    May only got 42.4% of the vote, add the DUP to that and it only just goes to 43.3%. The overall majority would have been for a left/centre-left alliance of Labout, Lib Dem and SNP (50.4%) but for that the UK would have to make our democracy work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medium9 View Post
    At this point now, it almost makes me think splitting the country into Great Britain and Not-So-Great Britain is the only amicable way to resolve this. Migrate all remainers to the one, all brexiters to the other country, the first remains, the second is cut off hard. Set up internal borders (maybe build a wall, idk) and be finally done with this real life political parody.
    Just stick a 5% tax on the 17 million Leave voters to simulate the effect of Brexit, give them special blue passports that don't work in Europe and let the other 43 million people in the country get on with life as normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Not without a majority in the house it can't. Have you seen a majority for anything recently? Who would propose such a heinous thing? They'd be signing their political death warrant even considering doing such a thing against the will of the people. I suppose a dictator might consider going against the brexit referendum, just struggling to come up with the name of such an MP in parliament. Got any names in mind?
    Do you really think the will of the people is for the majority to be made poorer so a privileged few disaster capitalists can profit?

  14. #11054
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    I was, and used it to parody this attempt at a leadership coup, saying that it means people who voted in the last GE for May to lead the Brexit negotiations would have their "will of the people" ignored as JRM and co would be giving them something other than what they voted for.

    Basically every argument they've used to not have a people's vote, or second referendum, has been made to look total bollocks by this action today.
    In a parliamentary system though, you vote for a party, not for the person in charge. I understand what you are saying, I just don't think this is the particular action in which I'll choose to call them hypocrits; there are after all so many others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo101 View Post
    It took 3 weeks to change leader last time with little else going on and where all but 1 candidate withdrew before they even took a vote to their membership. In other words, it was extremely clean.

    First off, it's now Christmas time, that will slow everything down and if the membership has to be included that almost certainly can't happen and till after the new year, logistically speaking.

    If May loses, I'd be suprised if they were done with this until late January at the earliest.

    At that point whoever is in charge needs to go to Brussels and organise a deal in 2 months, something May has been incabaple of doing in over 2 years.
    Not 2 months, the 21st of Jan is the last day otherwise the member states will not be able to ratify the deal and there will not be a deal at least for the short term.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  15. #11055
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    In a parliamentary system though, you vote for a party, not for the person in charge. I understand what you are saying, I just don't think this is the particular action in which I'll choose to call them hypocrits; there are after all so many others.
    Yeah, technically the UK voted for Cameron to lead us out of the EU and that went tits-up within a week. Then the pro-Leave voices who you would expect to step up slinked into the background.

  16. #11056
    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo101 View Post
    I was kind of describing what happens from the UK point of view... The EU may give up a few concessions but they will surely want something in exchange and, of course, they aren't going to change anything fundamental.

    If May loses this vote there is 2 choices.
    a) No deal Brexit
    b) the UK rescinded A50 and becomes the laughing stock of world diplomacy.
    I'll reiterate, there will be no renegotiations. There are on conscessions, there is nothing the EU wants. The deal is frozen. The UK point of view at this stage is quite immaterial regarding the withdrawal agreement. They have already agreed to the paper as it is, there's no going backsies.

    I don't want to pound on you, so don't take this personal. But I keep seeing people being victim to the illusion that there are still options and things that can be done if you only ask nicely enough. No, there aren't. The only option the UK has is to accept the deal, reject it and crash out or revoke Art. 50. And none of those options include any sort of talking to the EU about it. In fact, the EU has explicitely stated through various channels that anything going on right now is an internal matter of the UK and the EU won't interfere.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  17. #11057

  18. #11058
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Parliament TV is still comedy gold.

    https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/...7-61d4ff969ba7
    And they get interrupted by small town politics all the time. Because the fate of one Royal Marine surely is as important as the state of the country... :P
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  19. #11059
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    In a parliamentary system though, you vote for a party, not for the person in charge. I understand what you are saying, I just don't think this is the particular action in which I'll choose to call them hypocrits; there are after all so many others.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not 2 months, the 21st of Jan is the last day otherwise the member states will not be able to ratify the deal and there will not be a deal at least for the short term.
    Well then, if May loses this confidence vote, OR, Labour push a full no confidence vote in parliament then Brexit is over.

    Liam Fox just said that in the event of a leadership contest the Tories MIGHT have a leader in place by the end of February.

  20. #11060
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Do you really think the will of the people is for the majority to be made poorer so a privileged few disaster capitalists can profit?
    Not paying the EU £39bn and further ongoing monies will provide benefits for all the UK population.

    The majority of the UK population, as I, understand that and rejoice in a no deal.

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