[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Kronik85]

Not lying to parliament is such a difficult requirement to meet these days

People accuse The Maybot of being discriminatory. This is false, it's tone deafness is applied to everyone, equally.

[Slant]

And anyone CAN ask (especially now). A court issuing an interpretation of law is what higher courts exist for. Then, with legal clarity given by the ECJ the parliament has a stronger basis to consider if an amendment is necessary. If the ECJ clarifies the nuances of the Article to a satisfactory degree, the parliament can not tamper with the international treaty that will be very hard to tamper with and rest on that ruling. If the parliament is not satisfied, then they can seek to amend the treaty. It seems like the safer approach politically. Ultimately the ECJ would still never be creating new law which is anathema to civic law systems like in most of the EU.

Your method would work in theory. But I'd like to emphasize that we'd be stretching the limits of what the judicative is allowed to do. It's not the ECJ's job to "interpret laws into a functioning state". I think we can safely say that A50 is inadequate in its current form under any interpretation. All the ECJ can do is safeguard the treaties as a whole and limit A50 for the time being until it is fixed. This period of time could very well take decades, so you may be practically correct, but I wouldn't rest on just the interpretation of a court and then go "Ok, as long as they decide like that, we don't have to fix it."

See, courts tend to change their minds once in a while. As legislative, you don't want that to happen without you saying in which direction they're allowed to change their minds.

- - - Updated - - -

Big tings a gwaan!

The Maybot can't even write a letter without shit hitting the fan. This morning the plan was to write to the EU asking for a short extension, there is now talk about an emergency debate now with the view to asking for a long extension.

The EU (Barnier), knowing its customer, has already stated it would decide next week. They know the letter won't be in time to make a proper decision tomorrow. That's how low the EU thinks of the UK Government at the moment.

[Slant]

Again, what? Are the people denied the right to vote? Don't left parties exist in all EU states? How do they not have a say at all? GUE-NGL actually exists and gets a decent number of votes you know.

What he means is he wants to decide if we get a European carrier or not. He wants to decide on policy. All of it. Typical anarcho/dictatorial bullshit. Everyone else is just an extra to his personal hero story.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Last week in the commons:

In the absence of a deal, seeking such a short and, critically, one-off extension would be downright reckless and completely at odds with the position that this House adopted only last night, making a no-deal scenario far more, rather than less, likely.

Today:

We [don't have a deal, and] are seeking a short, one-off extension.

Not lying is difficult.

Edit - thankfully it might not matter

BREXIT:EU COMMISSION DOCUMENT SAYS EXTENSION TO JUNE 30 WOULD BE LEGALLY AND POLITICALLY DIFFICULT, MAIN OPTIONS FOR EU LEADERS ARE TO DELAY BREXIT UNTIL BEFORE MAY 23 OR AT LEAST TO THE END OF 2019

[Slant]

I am simply uncertain that the parliament would fix A50. There is a perverse incentive to keep it broken so that the individual members can exploit it if needed.

I don't see it. If this episode has shown us anything, it's that A50 is a danger to the integrity of the EU core. It's highly exceptional that any comprehensive set of basic rules for a governing body (and I'm just not calling it constitution, because there is a conscious effort not to call it constitution) has an article that allows leaving in the first place. This is unprecedented. And it is highly inadequate... the first draft of such a possibility, really. It should have never been written into the treaties like that. It's obviously half-baked and needs a lot more cooking before it's done.

[Kronik85]

Well Maybot is speaking and it's found it's voice. It's leaving me totally flacid, probably the most disappointing thing I've seen (or heard I guess) all day.

[Dizzeeyooo]

It's a widely accepted fact that the EU is undemocratic as hell

"It's widely accepted by people who believe the EU is undemocratic as hell that the EU is undemocratic as hell"

[Slant]

I think Barnier also intended to give May time to gather visible support for the WA but Bercow killed that notion.

Nah, he said it this morning. I think the EU isn't concerned with May anymore. I'm fairly certain all switches are set to no-deal at this stage. The EU is highly pragmatical. If a miracle happens, great. But who still thinks a miracle is possible at this point? The UK would have to cave completely. On everything.

[zealo]

Lobby groups, commissions, the ECB, etc.

It's a widely accepted fact that the EU is undemocratic as hell. It's why so many people want it dismantled, it's why it is being dismantled.

Define just who those "so many" are.

Cause I'm mostly seeing only fringe groups on the far right and far left still calling for the outright dismantlement of the EU. The more mainstream Euro-sceptics here have now moved over to rhetoric more in the line of "reform from within".

[Kronik85]

I think Barnier also intended to give May time to gather visible support for the WA but Bercow killed that notion.

May killed the motion. Bercow stopped it because it was coming out that May was going to pull MV3 (probably until the day before Brexit) in order to get it through. No doubt MPs had been coming to Bercow and complaining that this was quite frankly bullshit and he quite rightly shut it down.

You can't take back control by ignoring the body that you are meant to be returning control to in the first place.

[Slant]

I mean the largest contingent of registered lobbyists list the environment as their primary area of interest

Anarchy isn't particularily concerned with the environment. :P

And May still rejects a second referendum. There goes one of the two chances for an extension. A GE seems unlikely, so... yeah, you can stick the extension where the sun doesn't shine.

[Shalcker]

I don't see it. If this episode has shown us anything, it's that A50 is a danger to the integrity of the EU core. It's highly exceptional that any comprehensive set of basic rules for a governing body (and I'm just not calling it constitution, because there is a conscious effort not to call it constitution) has an article that allows leaving in the first place. This is unprecedented. And it is highly inadequate... the first draft of such a possibility, really. It should have never been written into the treaties like that. It's obviously half-baked and needs a lot more cooking before it's done.

Unprecedented?

Freaking USSR had leave clause in constitution.

[Slant]

Unprecedented?

Freaking USSR had leave clause in constitution.

Freaking USSR also held elections. Doesn't change that nobody was allowed to leave and no election was democratic. Remember Hungary? Poland? Tanks in the GDR? Nobody gives a shit what the USSR said or had. When will you get that into your head? Neither the USSR nor Russia are ever part of any discussion involving free will and democracy.

[Shalcker]

Well if they have the right to vote, why is there no left majority anywhere in the EU? The vast majority of hard eurosceptics you are cheering of are in the far right.

Successful distraction of left-wingers with migrant issues, "anti-fa", and "globalism-is-good-for-everyone" after fall of USSR that put many of them in opposition to (less-educated) working class?

So working class went to right-wingers for solutions to their problems instead, even if they would prefer left-wing solutions they do need some solution to their plight, not "it's as good as it gets, stop struggling against it".

[LeGin Tufnel]

In advance of that vote, I would be grateful if the European Council could therefore approve the supplementary documents that President Juncker and I agreed in Strasbourg, putting the Government in a position to bring these agreements to the House and confirming the changes to the Government's proposition to Parliament. I also intend to bring forward further domestic proposals that confirm my previous commitments to protect our internal market, given the concerns expressed about the backstop. On this basis, and in the light of the outcome of the European Council, I intend to put forward a motion as soon as possible under section 13 of the Withdrawal Act 2018 and make the argument for the orderly withdrawal and strong future partnership the UK economy, its citizens' security and the continent's future, demands.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47641357

[Shalcker]

Freaking USSR also held elections. Doesn't change that nobody was allowed to leave and no election was democratic. Remember Hungary? Poland? Tanks in the GDR? Nobody gives a shit what the USSR said or had. When will you get that into your head? Neither the USSR nor Russia are ever part of any discussion involving free will and democracy.

You're repeating same thing now with clear attempt to punish anyone leaving or breaking ranks - like USSR did with Hungary, just with "tools of modern age".

If you'd had EU army you could quite possibly use that instead - but you don't.

"Leaving the Union clause" has little to do with "free will" or "democracy"; those are just trapping to give such decisions legitimacy in societies that already consider themselves democratic and free.

[Slant]

In advance of that vote, I would be grateful if the European Council could therefore approve the supplementary documents that President Juncker and I agreed in Strasbourg, putting the Government in a position to bring these agreements to the House and confirming the changes to the Government's proposition to Parliament. I also intend to bring forward further domestic proposals that confirm my previous commitments to protect our internal market, given the concerns expressed about the backstop. On this basis, and in the light of the outcome of the European Council, I intend to put forward a motion as soon as possible under section 13 of the Withdrawal Act 2018 and make the argument for the orderly withdrawal and strong future partnership the UK economy, its citizens' security and the continent's future, demands.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47641357

Calling it now, it'll be rejected. Nothing in her letter indicates any change in her approach, any plan, any constructive idea on what to do with the extra time, any reason why an extension should be granted. Not even a mention of the pre-conditions the EU has set out: Referendum or GE. She wants to use this to put the same deal on the table again.

This letter has not got a snowball's chance in hell of getting her an extension. Sorry, remainers. You're truly fucked now. This was it. This was your one last chance. And May blew it.

[thathwother]

Well if they have the right to vote, why is there no left majority anywhere in the EU? The vast majority of hard eurosceptics you are cheering of are in the far right.

It is almost as if the media interests in Europe were controlled by billionaires pushing a specific point of view.

[Dizzeeyooo]

OT: WTF good is a 3 month delay going to do when we're at this point in the shit show after 2 whole years?

A 3 month delay "may" not split the Conservative party, a longer delay will split the party - her priority is remaining as PM for as many more days as possible and keeping the party that allows her to do that together.

[Slant]

I'm going to inform people to the best of my ability on what the EU actually is and isn't and if the plebs still want to use their democratic vote to try and maybe succeed in breaking up the EU then it is their right. Funny how that is possible, voting to destroy the EU. Almost as if the EU isn't a dictatorship after all like you retards think.

If a nation wants to fuck themselves in the ass like UK is doing, they have every right to do so.

- - - Updated - - -



Also do you understand how big of a fucking idiot you are for thinking that EU is undemocratic dictatorship and then admitting that even the dumbest of citizens have the right to vote how ever they want? Man you are an embarrassment.

Thank you for taking the infraction hits for all of us that want to say the same. Resoundingly agreed with every word of it.