View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #14421
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    So, they have no choice but to remain convenient scapegoats, is that what you're saying?

    They cannot talk to same people and give their own version that would be convincing enough for same population?

    ...and yet in the same breath they expect their recommendations to be followed?
    It's literally in the post that you replied to here how EU already made that information public knowledge. What more do you need? For Tusk to personally break into UK houses, tie people there up and recite to them how EU actually works, despite the fact they are clearly not interested in the topic?


    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Perhaps EU regulations became to arcane for common comprehension and should be significantly simplified?

    For example, let's take that "curved banana" example... where would i have to look to check full EU requirements for imported bananas?
    You're moving the goalpost. And you chose pretty much the worst example given how this particular piece of legislation not only has its own Wikipedia page, but also has a bajillion news articles written about it. Other than that, https://europa.eu/european-union/law...legislation_en
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  2. #14422
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Well... back to question then... where can i check current ones? Your link says 2011.
    The regulation passed in 2011 replaced the one from 1995 when it came into effect in 2012.

  3. #14423
    Quote Originally Posted by dffsdsdsddfsdfsdfdfssdfdf View Post
    Seems like literally any one who posts here who doesn't believe in the neoliberal consensus gets deleted, so you get this echo chamber of Blairites, eurotrash and...whatever Mehrunes is.

    This is why I create a new id every time I want to post on here.
    The answer to what I am is apparently someone who made you salty enough to engage in ban avoidance and flinging shit in my direction. You missed by the way, since I'm a social democrat. Kinda far cry from laissez faire and third way nonsense on which noeliberalism stands on. Then again, "neoliberal consensus" is clearly your amazing buzzword for everyone that disagrees with you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Or maybe you should just wait for your original account to be unbanned and use that. You are clearly ban dodging so you are getting deleted not because of your opinion (which beyond the graphic overuse of the word "cunt" does not seem really that infractable) but because you refuse to follow the rules. At some point the moderators can no longer trust you to be in this site.
    Given their complaints, I'm assuming that person made some other accounts and spammed this thread and their posts got deleted with their ban-avoiding accounts? If so, did I miss anything particularly interesting?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  4. #14424
    Quote Originally Posted by dffsdsdsddfsdfsdfdfssdfdf View Post
    Seems like literally any one who posts here who doesn't believe in the neoliberal consensus gets deleted, so you get this echo chamber of Blairites, eurotrash and...whatever Mehrunes is.

    This is why I create a new id every time I want to post on here.
    Anyone using words like "neoliberal" doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about on this forum, I feel. It's one of those easy buzzwords that people use to sound intelligent but when you think about it, it doesn't even make any fucking sense.

    Brexiteers accuse the EU of over-regulating and well, sometimes fascism. Those are opposites of "liberalism". And then, of course there's the hinted criticism that "consensus" is somehow a bad thing. It's not. It's the point of democracy, to form a consensus of some sort using compromises so we can make a decision that everyone can get behind.

    Of course, there's the glaringly obvious tell-tales of "echo chamber", "Blairites", "Eurotrash" that seal the deal and discredit this and the inevitable follow-up burner accounts as the joke that they are.

    The truly sad story is that any genuinely new user on this forum is doomed, because he'll have to suffer through prejudice until he gets a couple posts under his belt and/or has people patient enough to read through the entire post to figure out if he's genuine or just an another asshat account. Luckily, the moderate people on here seem to have a near infinite amount of patience, so if anyone new wants to post... don't feel frightened.

    Yes, even you Brexiteers. I've waited for 2 years, but you've still got a month to bring a coherent argument pro Brexit to the table.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.

  5. #14425
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The answer to what I am is apparently someone who made you salty enough to engage in ban avoidance and flinging shit in my direction. You missed by the way, since I'm a social democrat. Kinda far cry from laissez faire and third way nonsense on which noeliberalism stands on. Then again, "neoliberal consensus" is clearly your amazing buzzword for everyone that disagrees with you.
    Blair and Nick Clegg were supposed to be social democrats. In practice they just enacted right-wing policies and took backhanders from corporations. Same with Obama, Macron, and many others.

    I don't know whether your beliefs are genuine, but it hardly matters since if these people ever gain any power they behave indistinguishably from Tories.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Or maybe you should just wait for your original account to be unbanned and use that. You are clearly ban dodging so you are getting deleted not because of your opinion (which beyond the graphic overuse of the word "cunt" does not seem really that infractable) but because you refuse to follow the rules. At some point the moderators can no longer trust you to be in this site.
    The issue is more with the moderators. There was a certain vocal neo-fascist contingent that they refused to take action against, so it became necessary to use extra-procedural methods to deal with that. If they'd done their job properly in the first place it wouldn't have been necessary for me to do that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Anyone using words like "neoliberal" doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about on this forum, I feel. It's one of those easy buzzwords that people use to sound intelligent but when you think about it, it doesn't even make any fucking sense.

    Brexiteers accuse the EU of over-regulating and well, sometimes fascism. Those are opposites of "liberalism". And then, of course there's the hinted criticism that "consensus" is somehow a bad thing. It's not. It's the point of democracy, to form a consensus of some sort using compromises so we can make a decision that everyone can get behind.
    I'm not a Brexiteer, I just have a reflexive dislike of Germans telling me how my country should be run. It is kind of obnoxious. I don't tell you who to vote for or how to behave.

  6. #14426
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Why exactly have you turned europhile? Personally, I find that I learned more about the EU in the past two years than in all the years before. It helps appreciate what we have and I'm wondering if it's the same with you.
    Yes, it's exactly this: improved understanding, knowledge, engagement. I benefit from the UK's membership of the EU far more than I don't benefit. Some stuff I was just flat out wrong about / misinformed. Important to admit when one is wrong and to encourage political class to do the same. My scepticism re. some wider issues e.g., fiscal union of any othe countries than France, Germany & Benelux remains, but is minor in comparison.

    Sad thing is it's too late, eh?

  7. #14427
    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Shadow Priest View Post
    Yes, it's exactly this: improved understanding, knowledge, engagement. I benefit from the UK's membership of the EU far more than I don't benefit. Some stuff I was just flat out wrong about / misinformed. Important to admit when one is wrong and to encourage political class to do the same. My scepticism re. some wider issues e.g., fiscal union of any othe countries than France, Germany & Benelux remains, but is minor in comparison.

    Sad thing is it's too late, eh?
    It's never too late. Even if you crash out now, the door will always be open for rejoining at a later stage. Perhaps the UK needs a timeout to sort its political issues out and when they rejoin, they're stronger and can contribute more to the EU willingly than being the eternal unwilling participant that they were in the past. This can be an opportunity.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.

  8. #14428
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    The regulation passed in 2011 replaced the one from 1995 when it came into effect in 2012.
    So, i went to check 1994 version and language there is exactly the same as 2011 version, word-for-word.

    Both contain "abnormal curvature". None define where "abnormal" starts. Comparing them shows no change in any requirements at all. Same list of classes. The only thing added is "marketing standards" section and clarification on which bodies should be making those checks as well as required notifications to the Comission.

    What was repealed in 2008 then? (it shows up on top of Google search for bent bananas now)

    What kind of misdirection is this really? 2011 regulation replaced 1994 that haven't changed a word in requirements? :/

    How does that suddenly invalidate any articles about it???

    ...wait, that 2008 article was just hope that "Imperfectly-shaped fruit and vegetables may now be back on supermarket shelves by 2009" as result of ridiculed 1994 regulation reform? ...reform that went up to 2011 to produce results that are word-for-word identical to ridiculed 1994 regulation?


    --- in substantive changes,
    1994 version had
    "As an exception to the last paragraph, bananas produced in Madeira, the Azores, the Algarve, Crete and Lakonia which are less than 14 cm in length may be marketed in the Community but must be classified in Class II."

    Where 2011 version has
    "As an exception to the third paragraph, bananas produced in Madeira, the Azores, the Algarve, Crete, Lakonia and Cyprus which are less than 14 cm in length may be marketed in the Union but must be classified in Class II."
    Cyprus added, okay.

    And 1994 "The bananas must be presented in hands or clusters (parts of hands) of at least four fingers." is replaced with 2011 "The bananas must be presented in hands or clusters (parts of hands) of at least four fingers. Bananas may also be presented as single fingers."

    Change in identification form.

    And one "Community" replaced by "Union".

    That's it.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-02-23 at 10:03 AM.

  9. #14429
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    you are about 600 pages late to talk about bananas
    I just wanted to see it for myself, and really, after looking into it it's /facepalm worthy...

    The fact that people seem to think something changed when nothing actually changed :/

    That seems to be commonly repeated EU approach. Say you are changing something, wait for media hype to die out, change almost nothing at all.

    Or perhaps they just linked to wrong requirements? Unlikely, but that would be working for my other argument that EU rules are too arcane for common man (like people on this forum).

  10. #14430
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    That's it.
    https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK...-and-brussels/

    Stop talking about bananas, nobody gives a shit about bananas. It's a deflection and trying to derail the thread.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.

  11. #14431
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK...-and-brussels/

    Stop talking about bananas, nobody gives a shit about bananas. It's a deflection and trying to derail the thread.
    I've looked into it deeper and entire thing seem to go up from 2008 EU ban on selling second-class produce in supermarket - that is, actually making store managers potentially criminally liable for selling it, not just fining the company. That is, yes, there was a point at which bent bananas were indeed banned based on intersection of 1994 regulation on banana classes and later decision to ban selling class 2 in retail.

    It was rightfully seen as extreme overreach and apparently this ban was lifted in 2009 (though finding exact decision seems to be tricky) and, i guess, second-class can be sold now as long as it is clearly marked as such.

    Banana classes remain exactly as they were in 1994 though.

    That is still pretty weird; i feel not so much shape though but size is main protectionist measure - specifically that "As an exception to the third paragraph, bananas produced in Madeira, the Azores, the Algarve, Crete, Lakonia and Cyprus which are less than 14 cm in length may be marketed in the Union but must be classified in Class II." - that is, anything below 14 centimeters, regardless of other qualities, gets relegated to Class II automatically (with accompanying reduction of prices and farmer profits, i would assume) from designated countries, and, i would assume, cannot be sold at all from other countries.

  12. #14432
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    i dont even have a scooby what point you are making or what you are on about at this point, absolute pish
    I just wanted to take a dive into EU regulation and see how easy it actually is to get to the bottom of something from "available information online anyone could check".

    Well, it doesn't look easy at all. Too many things branching from each other. Innocent regulation can become not-so-innocent in an instant and you would never know looking at it in isolation; and there are just 7 documents short of 5 thousand total on bananas alone in the database.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-02-23 at 11:53 AM.

  13. #14433
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    what are you talking about, i type bendy banana myth into google i get http://www.europarl.europa.eu/united...dybananas.html
    its a pretty basic read, dunno what you a struggling with, even the regulations are straight forward even a layman can understand this
    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...1R1333&from=EN
    Where exactly does this or any other regulation says what is appropriate for Class II banana usage? What are their limitations compared to 'Extra Class' and 'Class I'?

    Certainly it cannot be meaningless distinction, but how this classification is used is not mentioned in linked document. Is it just marketing? Or something more? How can i tell?

    There is also the point that "The minimum length permitted is 14 cm and the minimum grade permitted is 27 mm." - and, that would seem, anything less is not allowed, not just relegated to Class II, except for several named EU-related country exceptions in next paragraph which can relegate them to Class II instead.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-02-23 at 12:14 PM.

  14. #14434
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    (iii) Class II
    This class covers bananas which do not qualify for inclusion in the higher classes but satisfy the minimum requirements specified above.
    The following defects of the fingers are allowed, provided the bananas retain their essential characteristics as regards quality, keeping quality and presentation:
    — defects of shape,
    — skin defects due to scraping, rubbing or other causes, provided that the total area affected does not cover more than 4 cm2 of the surface of the finger.
    Under no circumstances may the defects affect the flesh of the fruit.

    its in the regs u just arent reading it.
    why are u dying on this hill lmao

    annex 1 u prawn try scrolling down
    That's definition, not usage. Do you even understand the question?

    Show me the document that says what you can do with Extra Class/Class I bananas that you cannot with Class II (other then having to mark them differently).

    Also... what can you do with something that does not satisfy minimum marketing requirements? Not even Class II?

    Something like otherwise perfect 10 cm banana not from "allowed as Class-II" country list?
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-02-23 at 03:06 PM.

  15. #14435
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    You can buy banana's of all sorts in Europe, small and weirdly shaped it's just a classification, this is just a something the pedantic like to bring up because they think they have some kind of point with it.

    Again stop feeding Shackler already.
    This is the third time you have said "don't talk to the guy who disagrees with me". It gets tiresome. It isn't that difficult to refute his points, the "bendy bananas" is one of the oldest tropes in the UK, you'd think you could come up with a counter-argument in 40 years. It is a fair assumption that you, acidbaron and the other people who use this non-engagement strategy just aren't clever enough to do anything other than repeat stuff that you saw on the television.

    It seems like the centre-leftists/eurotrash favour a process of disengagement and procedural manipulation in general. So we get serial bans for any one not in favour of the neoliberal consensus, we get you people trying to overturn a democratic mandate. In the Labour party you get centre leftists trying to stab the leader in the back resoundingly rebuffed by the membership.

    You people are the most illiberal liberals in human history.

    Eventually you end up with < 10% of the vote talking to yourselves oblivious to what is happening in the world. Actually, that is already happening.
    Last edited by gtyuiopa; 2019-02-23 at 02:16 PM.

  16. #14436
    Quote Originally Posted by gtyuiopa View Post
    You people are the most illiberal liberals in human history.
    And you need to stop using buzzwords if you don't know what they mean. Especially when you think they're an insult, but they're really not. Like, really the fuck not.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.

  17. #14437
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    21,435
    Theresa May, aka Dollar Store Margret Thatcher, should do the right thing and just call off the entire shit show on the basis of it being a really dumb fucking idea that was never legally binding in the first place.

    But then again, British Parliament is basically the WWE. And just like how Roman Reigns will never be more than a faint echo of Stone Cold Steve Austin or the Rock, Theresa May will never be more than a faint echo of Maggie.

    That's my insightful read of Brexit: it's the dumbest WWE plotline to ever escape into real-life that can't end soon enough because everyone hates how it started, how it's going and how its going to end.

    Now that we've covered that, I''d also really like to see some Labour backbenchers heel turn during PMQs and hit Jeremy Corbyn with a folding chair when he's asking May a question, and then deliver the people's elbow for good measure.
    Last edited by Skroe; 2019-02-23 at 02:31 PM.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    Trumphadis, You're Never Getting Your Fucking Wall

  18. #14438
    Quote Originally Posted by gtyuiopa View Post
    This is the third time you have said "don't talk to the guy who disagrees with me". It gets tiresome. It isn't that difficult to refute his points, the "bendy bananas" is one of the oldest tropes in the UK, you'd think you could come up with a counter-argument in 40 years. It is a fair assumption that you, acidbaron and the other people who use this non-engagement strategy just aren't clever enough to do anything other than repeat stuff that you saw on the television.

    It seems like the centre-leftists/eurotrash favour a process of disengagement and procedural manipulation in general. So we get serial bans for any one not in favour of the neoliberal consensus, we get you people trying to overturn a democratic mandate. In the Labour party you get centre leftists trying to stab the leader in the back resoundingly rebuffed by the membership.

    You people are the most illiberal liberals in human history.

    Eventually you end up with < 10% of the vote talking to yourselves oblivious to what is happening in the world. Actually, that is already happening.
    But they refuted the bendy banana stupidity 10 posts ago and he will keep going. It's just shitposting, why is it a problem to tell people not to respond to the shitposter who is trying yet again to derail the thread?

  19. #14439
    Quote Originally Posted by ctd12345 View Post
    Go and read the regs again, all your answers are in it. wtf? stop trolling.
    Sorry, i did (re-read it again just now to be sure i haven't missed it), and it's not there.

    Maybe some language there references some obvious concept that would explain it?

    But no direct explanation to my question. No mention of how non-compliance is handled, nor how different classes are handled in practice.

    the classifications are for buyers so they know what they are getting as standard. You could stick the bananas up your arse and call yourself mary queen of scots for usage.
    Assuming it can get to me, that is.

    if it doesnt fit the minimum requirements its clearly not fit for human consumption or just waste so cant enter the market (because no one wants to buy it or it can be used for industrial purposes)
    Are you saying that if something doesn't fit for Class II by any part of marketing standard (like having "abnormal curvature"), it is banned from appearing on EU markets?
    Can you suggest me keywords i should use to get it in language of EU regulations rather then your guesswork?

    ------

    On another note, how does it get "not fit for human consumption" (and then becomes "Class II" when "we just want to protect EU farmers in difficult conditions") just by being shorter? :/

    14cm or longer is necessary minimum requirement in document separate from "broadly looking like being fit for human consumption" part; plus, marketing guidelines aren't supposed to define "fit for human consumption", that is part of health/safety/phitosanitary rules.

    Is there something i don't get that makes 10cm Cyprus bananas inherently inferior?
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-02-23 at 05:53 PM.

  20. #14440
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Sorry, i did (re-read it again just now to be sure i haven't missed it), and it's not there.

    Maybe some language there references some obvious concept that would explain it?

    But no direct explanation to my question. No mention of how non-compliance is handled, nor how different classes are handled in practice.

    Assuming it can get to me, that is.

    Are you saying that if something doesn't fit for Class II by any part of marketing standard (like having "abnormal curvature"), it is banned from appearing on EU markets?
    Can you suggest me keywords i should use to get it in language of EU regulations rather then your guesswork?

    ------

    On another note, how does it get "not fit for human consumption" (and then becomes "Class II" when "we just want to protect EU farmers in difficult conditions") just by being shorter? :/

    14cm or longer is necessary minimum requirement in document separate from "broadly looking like being fit for human consumption" part; plus, marketing guidelines aren't supposed to define "fit for human consumption", that is part of health/safety/phitosanitary rules.

    Is there something i don't get that makes 10cm Cyprus bananas inherently inferior?
    It's not that hard, Shalcker. An imbecile could understand it. If you want a label "Type I Banana" on the banana, you meet those requirements. If you don't meet those requirements, you don't get a label. That's all there is to it. This isn't about what is or is not allowed on the market. If your food is not edible, that'll be when it gets banned. So, good luck with your fucked up mutant banana that doesn't meet any requirements. You can still try to sell it, but chances are people are going to grab those Type I-III bananas they know and love.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •