View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #16301
    A few weeks ago I would have gone with no brexit and eventually revoking article 50.

    Now? Now I don't know. Depends on Bruxelles if they are patient enough for that to happen, and it will happen I feel, or if they want to make a point by having Britain crash and burn. I don't know the EU has surprised me in that past as to how far they are willing to go, maybe they will again.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

    Retired <Dreamstate> Gehennas

  2. #16302
    Ah, finally, a British paper that puts it on the table. Or at least pays someone to do it.

    https://www.ft.com/content/5f3df8bc-...6-79eaea5acb64

    The Brexit farce is about to turn to tragedy

    Britain is paying for its ignorance of how the EU actually works

    ROBERT COOPER

    Welcome to Disneyland. Leading Brexiter Jacob Rees-Mogg is playing Mickey Mouse as the sorcerer’s apprentice from Fantasia; Theresa May is the wicked witch from Snow White — though she is short on magic. Across the pond, an evil ogre known as Donald Trump is waiting to eat us all up.

    It’s grim; but it’s a great learning experience. Has anyone learnt? Has former Brexit secretary David Davis worked out that his plan to leave the EU while retaining “the exact same benefits” as staying in the single market, was a little ambitious? Or that the Germans actually care more about the integrity of the EU than about selling Brits BMWs? Has Michael Gove finally noticed that we did not after all “hold all the cards” the day after we voted to leave? Has anyone worked out that frictionless trade is quite complicated, and that the dreary Brussels machinery does a good job for us?

    We shouldn’t count on it. It is easier to blame others. Britain triggered Article 50 without having a clue what we wanted or how we were going to get it. The European Commission, by contrast, knew exactly what it was doing: the diplomats in Brussels are masters of negotiation. After all, they have been doing it for years — for us, and for the rest of the EU. Notice that they take direction from their political masters at the start, consult them as they go along, and return to them at the end. The commission is dealing with sovereign states. Our government might consider doing the same with its sovereign parliament.

    Another lesson: the EU is bigger than Britain. If we leave without an agreement, that is a nuisance for the EU — about 10 per cent of their trade is with us. For us, they represent 49 per cent and no deal risks being a catastrophe. The idea that this is an important bargaining chip is ridiculous. One day — we cannot ignore our neighbours forever — we will be back at the table, helpless on our side, furious on theirs.

    Why is the EU being so nasty? We thought we were friends. So we were: in the EU you do business with each other every day, no matter what. In the days when we were hardly speaking to the Germans about Iraq, we still worked together to stop other members cheating on milk quotas. You never break up completely. The EU is a system of compulsory friendships.

    But, with apologies to Shakespeare, take that bond away, “untune that string, and hark, what discord follows”. When you choose to be an outsider, you are treated as one. The smallest insiders (Dublin in the case of Brexit) matter more than the biggest outsider (us). The systems we have helped build up over the years must be defended against outsiders seeking special privileges. There is no way of being half in and half out, no having cake and eating it. The dish turns out to be humble pie, anyway.

    It is late to be learning lessons. Why did the UK not bring in those who learnt them long ago? John Major, Chris Patten and Jonathan Hill, for example. What foolishness to lose Ivan Rogers, who presumably resigned as the UK’s permanent representative to the EU because he told the truth. Why did the government not make use of John Kerr, who drafted Article 50 and Stephen Wall who wrote the history of Britain and the EU? Now a new volume is needed. The ignorance of Westminster about Europe is appalling — we have some good MEPs who could help, but they don’t have security passes for the House of Commons.

    How remarkable that 27 sovereign states have worked so well together when the UK is so divided. Mrs May talks about delivering for the 17m who voted to Leave. What about the others? Wouldn’t the government be in a stronger position if it had built a bipartisan consensus?

    There are two big lessons. First we are paying the price of our failure for years to explain the EU. What is it for? Security. It delivers good political relations among neighbours — the best guarantee of security you can get. We have benefited very directly from this. Being in the EU together meant that for the first time we worked with Dublin as equals. That, and the open border, enabled peace in Ireland. In Britain, no one noticed. The EU is a political project: the customs union and the single market are means to an end. Why did no one tell us?

    The second lesson is that we are governed by the parties for the parties. The system would never get past a decent competition regulator. Most people know that it makes no difference how they vote. We are the oldest parliamentary democracy, and it shows.

    Government by slogan does not work. Are we taking back control or handing it over to Brussels? By the time we find out, it will be too late. If the UK prime minister had a sense of humour, she would set up the committee of inquiry now, so it could take evidence in real time, as the tragedy unfolds.

    The writer is a former diplomat for the UK and the EU
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  3. #16303
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    It's kind of fitting Vladimir Putin's two major strategic attacks on the Western World come to some sort of climax within a couple of weeks of each other.

    Brexit and Trump are basically two edges of the same sword.
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  4. #16304
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    What a load of bollocks. One of the defining feature of extremists is that they always turn up. They're extremists. They go to extreme length to win. What swung these votes is an undecided and confused centre that swings one way or the other. And guess what, the centre is full of people that don't have a whole lot of interest in politics. But they do get scared easily. That's why extremists can swing the vote by just lying to the centre. We dropped the ball on this one, but rest assured, it won't happen again. So enjoy this little episode of empowerment. Once this is over, we'll stomp hard on extremists. They can fuck right off.
    Blah blah blah. I bet this stuff I know what's going on, you don't, end of story. You are welcome to put down six figures on betfair if you are confident and I'll be happy to take your money.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    It's kind of fitting Vladimir Putin's two major strategic attacks on the Western World come to some sort of climax within a couple of weeks of each other.

    Brexit and Trump are basically two edges of the same sword.
    Yeah must be that. Russians. Not the increasing divergence between worker and executive pay and the dislocation and alienation that comes with disenfranchising an entire generation. Definitely Russians. That's not a fantasy concocted by corporate Democrats or anything.

  5. #16305
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    It's kind of fitting Vladimir Putin's two major strategic attacks on the Western World come to some sort of climax within a couple of weeks of each other.

    Brexit and Trump are basically two edges of the same sword.
    Agreed. But he should've made sure he got killing blows with that sword, cos this was always going to be the one hit he got. I expect this to pass, for both sides and then some serious pushing back. The Russian Government, whoever it is, will wish sanctions back once we're done with this.
    Last edited by Slant; 2019-03-23 at 12:06 AM.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  6. #16306
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    He's only allowed one account, multiple accounts is against forum rules.
    Hahahahaha... I consider some of you being alt accounts by the same guy arguing with himself... just kidding.
    "Every country has the government it deserves."
    Joseph de Maistre (1753 – 1821)


  7. #16307
    Quote Originally Posted by walthplath View Post
    Blah blah blah. I bet this stuff I know what's going on, you don't, end of story. You are welcome to put down six figures on betfair if you are confident and I'll be happy to take your money.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah must be that. Russians. Not the increasing divergence between worker and executive pay and the dislocation and alienation that comes with disenfranchising an entire generation. Definitely Russians. That's not a fantasy concocted by corporate Democrats or anything.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/20/b...ets/index.html

    London (CNN Business)Banks and other financial companies are shifting more assets and jobs out of the United Kingdom as the country lurches towards Brexit.

    Financial services companies in Britain have announced plans to move £1 trillion ($1.3 trillion) into the European Union, according to consultancy EY. That's up from an earlier estimate of £800 billion ($1.1 trillion).
    Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. You were saying something about alienating a generation? Which one? The young ones that overwhelmingly voted to remain?

    Don't let that news article disturb you, I just found it randomly. They seem to increase in frequency...
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  8. #16308
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    A few weeks ago I would have gone with no brexit and eventually revoking article 50.

    Now? Now I don't know. Depends on Bruxelles if they are patient enough for that to happen, and it will happen I feel, or if they want to make a point by having Britain crash and burn. I don't know the EU has surprised me in that past as to how far they are willing to go, maybe they will again.
    I would say in this 3 year ongoing clown fiesta that Brussels has been more than patient enough, if Britain actually had a clear cut plan for leaving after Leave won we wouldn't be in this mess but no one had a clue.

    The more I see those votes going on in Parliament the more it looks like a 3th grade preschool where no one knows if they want apple juice or need a shit on the potty.

  9. #16309
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post



    You were saying?
    You posted that before. As I responded before, that's a vote-winner for Dribbles and his friends. A lot of the resentment of the EU was mixed up with banking, particulary foreign bankers. You really understand nothing do you?

  10. #16310
    Quote Originally Posted by walthplath View Post
    You posted that before. As I responded before, that's a vote-winner for Dribbles and his friends. A lot of the resentment of the EU was mixed up with banking, particulary foreign bankers. You really understand nothing do you?
    https://www.bma.org.uk/news/media-ce...hic-for-health

    No deal Brexit could be catastrophic for health
    The British Medical Association (BMA) is today warning that a no deal Brexit could have could have potentially catastrophic consequences for patients, the health workforce, services and the nation’s health.
    I'm sorry, what? I was distracted by this statement from the BMA that no-deal would be catastrophic. Please, protect the tender little snowflakes like Dribbles from getting their touchy feelings hurt by talking some more about your anti-globalist dream. I'm sure that'll convince people not to get sick anymore.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  11. #16311
    Quote Originally Posted by Amalaric View Post
    Hahahahaha... I consider some of you being alt accounts by the same guy arguing with himself... just kidding.
    Calamari!

    You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!

  12. #16312
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Snip meaningless rant [/url]
    Bankers are not popular in the UK. Most people would like to see them leave. I'd venture that it is you, not the 90% of the population that despises the banking industry, that has mental health problems if you cannot understand that.

  13. #16313
    Quote Originally Posted by walthplath View Post
    Bankers are not popular in the UK. Most people would like to see them leave. I'd venture that it is you, not the 90% of the population that despises the banking industry, that has mental health problems if you cannot understand that.
    The problem is they are a very significant part of your tax flows, so what would you replace them with?
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  14. #16314
    Quote Originally Posted by walthplath View Post
    Bankers are not popular in the UK. Most people would like to see them leave. I'd venture that it is you, not the 90% of the population that despises the banking industry, that has mental health problems if you cannot understand that.
    They would like to see them leave, but they wouldn't like it when the NHS and education budgets get cut because of the significant tax revenue drop.

  15. #16315
    Quote Originally Posted by walthplath View Post
    Bankers are not popular in the UK. Most people would like to see them leave. I'd venture that it is you, not the 90% of the population that despises the banking industry, that has mental health problems if you cannot understand that.
    Oh, you're gone... it's okay, I couldn't read what you said anyway, see I was busy listening to this leaver explain why he switched sides. See, as it turns out, he was wrong but has the character to talk about it!



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The problem is they are a very significant part of your tax flows, so what would you replace them with?
    You talk as if it even makes sense what he said. "90% of the population despises the banking industry"

    Yes, so apparently 90% of the population are retarded sheep that couldn't put an original thought together if you held a gun to their head. I wager his number is just slightly exaggerated and we're really talking about comparable numbers to the pitiful blockupy movement... I saw them in my cities, 20 people or or so, making an ass of themselves in the city.

    Funnily, I'd bet money, those bored kids are the same idiots that now votes Brexit and that are very, very excited about A13. And I also bet none of them ever read a law, but they absolutely have every blogshitpage in their bubble memorized by heart.

    Hey, be an activist... BUT DON'T FUCK UP YOUR COUNTRY JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE BORED AND WANT THE ATTENTION!
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  16. #16316
    Interesting hear, the young man is right on so many fronts its scary.
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  17. #16317
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You talk as if it even makes sense what he said. "90% of the population despises the banking industry"

    Yes, so apparently 90% of the population are retarded sheep that couldn't put an original thought together if you held a gun to their head. I wager his number is just slightly exaggerated and we're really talking about comparable numbers to the pitiful blockupy movement... I saw them in my cities, 20 people or or so, making an ass of themselves in the city.

    Funnily, I'd bet money, those bored kids are the same idiots that now votes Brexit and that are very, very excited about A13. And I also bet none of them ever read a law, but they absolutely have every blogshitpage in their bubble memorized by heart.

    Hey, be an activist... BUT DON'T FUCK UP YOUR COUNTRY JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE BORED AND WANT THE ATTENTION!
    While certainly you are right that 90% is laughable, it is probably a fairly large number still. The UK banking sector receives a lot of special treatment and is also broadly corrupt.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  18. #16318
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Oh, you're gone... it's okay, I couldn't read what you said anyway, see I was busy listening to this leaver explain why he switched sides. See, as it turns out, he was wrong but has the character to talk about it!
    That was a really interesting discussion. And the point he made that the extremes on both sides are getting all the air time is absolutely correct. What are we going to achieve if all our debates are between JRM and Blair (or their human equivalents)? The debate should be had (and will be won) in the centre, where there is a greater chance of people like this young man changing their mind.

    Thanks for the link.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  19. #16319
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    While certainly you are right that 90% is laughable, it is probably a fairly large number still. The UK banking sector receives a lot of special treatment and is also broadly corrupt.
    And yet, they are a necessity. Hating them doesn't make them go away. Unless Brexiteers want to go back to trading pigs for bread again. A wonderful time in history, I heard...

    But, you are right about banking corruption. That's why we need proper banking regulations. Something the US really, really despises us for, by the way. Guess which country is now leaving the EU and it's emerging bubble of protecting regulations? Guess who's going to be dominated by US banks if Brexiteers could have their way?

    Way to improve corruption in the banking sector... just turn it into a wild west movie and see who comes out alive. Surely that'll improve matters.
    Last edited by Slant; 2019-03-23 at 01:16 PM.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  20. #16320
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    While certainly you are right that 90% is laughable, it is probably a fairly large number still. The UK banking sector receives a lot of special treatment and is also broadly corrupt.
    It's certainly not popular. The financial crisis under Labour and the Tory imposed austerity that was brought in to solve it were the responsibility of bankers in the public eye. Some can blame the government for regulation failings or w/e but most people blame bankers. And that was only a decade ago.

    "Wanker banker" is an expression that's been around for a looong ass time. For most people in the UK (albeit 90% aren't foaming at the mouth about it) it is considered a bit of a scummy profession, a lot like lawyer is. Yes they may be envied for being rich; but it's viewed that the money is in someway generated through nefarious means.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Unless Brexiteers want to go back to trading pigs for bread again. A wonderful time in history, I heard...
    Something something manufacturing sector something "We used to make STEEL" something something.

    I mean, you're right; but I *think* that's the proposed replacement idk.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

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