[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Dizzeeyooo]

Where would the difficulty in a custom union be though

Doesn't fix the Irish Border, will require the same withdrawal agreement as exists today.

[UnifiedDivide]

Honestly I only put someone on ignore if I believe that seeing their posts all the time may lead me to get infracted.

I just don't see it as healthy, personally. It's what people do to create echo chambers or to essentially silence those they disagree with.

It's even weirder on Twitter where people actually wear being ignored by someone as a badge of honour lol

[Fuiking]

I just don't see it as healthy, personally. It's what people do to create echo chambers or to essentially silence those they disagree with.

It's even weirder on Twitter where people actually wear being ignored by someone as a badge of honour lol

I rarely ignore people, you really have to go far to make me ignore someone. However, i did ignore a fella a few months ago after he became too much of a defender of nasty regimes (North Korea defending eh? dafuq?)

[Pann]

I've not seen the poll on which this article; https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...main-1-6031751 is based but it is interesting in so much as although the leave vote is split over two options it the first poll (that I've seen) where specifically remain and no-deal have been polled and remain is the clear favourite.

This may represent a shift in public opinion away from leaving the EU and, potentially, adds weight to the campaign for a 2nd ref.

[LeGin Tufnel]

I don't think she will get Labour support. They know full well that anything May is offering will be undone by whoever comes next, it is beyond obvious. Heck Tory Remainers know it as well.

There are x number of Eurosceptic Tory leavers who voted for MV3 but might now vote against MV4 depending on the exact nature of the 'concessions'. But, on the other hand, I'm sure there are plenty of Labour MPs who, as we approach the real cliff edge, are more concerned about keeping their seats and maintaining the two party system, and who voted against MV3 but will vote for MV4.

It's all a numbers game isn't it? If they do actually agree a deal I don't think it's clear it'd fail. I’m sure a larger number of Labour MPs would vote for it while a hardcore of remainers wouldn't. But the question is would the Labour leavers be balanced out by an equally large number of hardcore Eurosceptic Tory leavers voting against it.

You could end up with the (comical) scenario where both parties are split broadly in two. Entirely indicative of the country as a whole.

I've not seen the poll on which this article; https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...main-1-6031751 is based but it is interesting in so much as although the leave vote is split over two options it the first poll (that I've seen) where specifically remain and no-deal have been polled and remain is the clear favourite.

This may represent a shift in public opinion away from leaving the EU and, potentially, adds weight to the campaign for a 2nd ref.

https://www.kisbridgingloans.co.uk/f...ain-in-the-eu/ are the people who commissioned it but I can’t find the poll on the YouGov website.

[ranzino]

.....

This may represent a shift in public opinion away from leaving the EU and, potentially, adds weight to the campaign for a 2nd ref.

it may seem obvious to me, but if you dont know how to leave properly, the remain option is the best one.

[Bakis]

This thread reached as many pages as there has been debates in the parliament

[Huehuecoyotl]

I've not seen the poll on which this article; https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...main-1-6031751 is based but it is interesting in so much as although the leave vote is split over two options it the first poll (that I've seen) where specifically remain and no-deal have been polled and remain is the clear favourite.

This may represent a shift in public opinion away from leaving the EU and, potentially, adds weight to the campaign for a 2nd ref.

But May keeps telling us; we decided, and we aren't allowed to change our minds now. It wouldn't be "democratic". /s

We just need enough weight behind a second referendum that it becomes politically expedient to do it. Or rather, that the realisation dawns on them that it is going to be more politically damaging for them NOT to. The Tories are losing voters to both sides, the longer this goes on and isn't resolved. But whatever form of Brexit they actually push through will then actually crystalise further losses once people realise they haven't got the specific form of Brexit that they wanted (and were originally promised).

Just needs one final push, from where I'm sitting. Maybe the EU elections will show enough support swinging behind the Remain parties to make it inevitable?

[Pann]

61% sounds like a safe margin

I think it is this one:
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne..._updated_w.pdf

Edit: You know when I read those polls I wonder how many of the people who answer are just trolling, live in a cave or are brain damaged (probably the 1st). I mean look at this:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...t%20stance.pdf
There is a 3% and 5% respectively that believe the Brexit Party and UKIP to be anti-brexit and a 16% and 21% who don't know.

61% is a safe margin but you need to remember that is remain versus May's deal which has always polled poorly against both no deal and remain. What is key, for me at least, is that remain has been polled against both no-deal and May's deal and has come out the clear winner; 53% remain, 34% no-deal and remainder in favour of May's deal.

It is not the poll you've linked as fieldwork for that one was carried out on 19th March and the fieldwork for the KIS commissioned poll took place between 23rd - 24th April 2019.

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https://www.kisbridgingloans.co.uk/f...ain-in-the-eu/ are the people who commissioned it but I can’t find the poll on the YouGov website.

Yup, I read through that. It appears that the poll was commissioned to ascertain how Brexit has affected financial decision making therefore it's possible that Yougov will not publish the poll data as it may contain commercially sensitive data.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Edit: You know when I read those polls I wonder how many of the people who answer are just trolling, live in a cave or are brain damaged (probably the 1st). I mean look at this:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...t%20stance.pdf
There is a 3% and 5% respectively that believe the Brexit Party and UKIP to be anti-brexit and a 16% and 21% who don't know.

Yes, that is utterly bizarre and completely depressing.

A total of 19% of those polled either don't know that the Brexit Party is pro-Brexit or think that it's anti-Brexit.

19% who are that dumb? Literally, they shouldn't be allowed to vote. It brings out my inner fascist.

You notice that the Scots are more switched on / engaged?

[LeGin Tufnel]

19% of 1730 polled is 328 people!

I guess a certain percent will be trolling (most likely those who answered the Brexit party is anti-Brexit), but the rest of them?

edit

Sorry, looking at this in more detail.

Looking on page 2 - the crux of it is that 12% of those who are planning to vote in the EP elections think that either the Brexit Party is anti-Brexit, neither anti-Brexit or pro-Brexit, or don't know.

It's that 12% who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Or procreate.

Well, quite.

Literally, this is so completely fucking depressing.

Off the top of your head, is this level of disengagement / stupidity reflected in your own country (sorry, is it Greece?).

Anyone from another country want to chip in?

Or am I over-reacting? Is this sort of utter stupidity actually not unique to the British.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Fuck. This is addictive.

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...f-010cec185b0b

20% of Brits have a) not read a book in the last 12 months (17%) or b) do not know if they've read a book in the last 12 months (3%)

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https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...8-01e7f8f09add

I guess this was a Theresa May-orientated one... didn't she say something about eating mouldy jam?

If you opened a jar of jam and there was some mould on the top, what would you do?

Discard the mould, and eat the jam that was underneath 35%
Throw away the jam 60%
Don't know 5%

How is it possible for 5% of the population not to be able to formulate an opinion on this.

Burner will be along soon to tell me that 5% of the population can't afford jam.

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This is genuinely very funny

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...5-53e93fea2510

Do you think exercise gear is an acceptable or unacceptable Christmas gift for someone who has not specifically asked for it?

Don't know 30%

Really? I'm sure as hell glad I'm not related to them.

Here's my Xmas list, hubby. It doesn't include an exercise bike.

Here's an exercise bike.

Are you calling me fat?

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https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...7-0126291aebdb

3% of people don't know if they've watched the film "Withnail And I"

Now - this one, I can relate to. I've definitely started watching it pre/mid/post spliff but I can't swear to have finished watching it.

[dribbles]

19% of 1730 polled is 328 people!

I guess a certain percent will be trolling (most likely those who answered the Brexit party is anti-Brexit), but the rest of them?

edit

Sorry, looking at this in more detail.

Looking on page 2 - the crux of it is that 12% of those who are planning to vote in the EP elections think that either the Brexit Party is anti-Brexit, neither anti-Brexit or pro-Brexit, or don't know.

It's that 12% who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Well the Brexit party is a moderate centrist party who just have a desire to uphold democracy and it is quite possible that the clean brexit they want is not hard enough for some people. In fact compared to some others they may even see the BXP as a remain party. I know, I know no one believes me and you are itching to label them as extreme brexiteers, so let me try to help you all.

Here is a full list of candidate MEP's standing in the NW.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48081445

You still think Farage and the BXP are extreme? Not UKIP on the list more so? How about this guy on that list...

https://www.votetommy.co.uk/

So you still think the Brexit party, and people like me who support them are extreme? If so you and the EU deserve Tommy...

[LeGin Tufnel]

If so you and the EU deserve Tommy...

Care to expand?

I deserve Tommy. Ok.

---

Anyway, don't flip the argument. If you go back to the original quote, it was you calling Lib Dems, Greens extremists, not vice versa. Which is patently ridiculous.

But now you're at it: yes, Brexit Party supporters are both extremists and morons.

There you go.

[Pro-Violence]

You still think Farage and the BXP are extreme? Not UKIP on the list more so?

Farage is on the FBI and NATO watchlist as a russian asset apparently. It doesn't get more extreme than that.

[dribbles]

Care to expand?

I deserve Tommy. Ok.

---

Anyway, don't flip the argument. If you go back to the original quote, it was you calling Lib Dems, Greens extremists, not vice versa. Which is patently ridiculous.

But now you're at it: yes, Brexit Party supporters are both extremists and morons.

There you go.

Surely the centre ground moves according to where the majority vote share lies and is constantly malleable? If 1 in a 1000 people talk to plants and spend the weekend hugging trees like the greenies do, you don't think that one person is extreme? Of course it could be reversed and 999/1000do the tree hugging and 1 doesn't... see what I mean?

The centre ground, like it or not is occupied currently by the Brexit party. Those moving away from that centre ground are moving towards the extremities... the Lib Dems/Greenies are travelling along that path away from the centre.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Surely the centre ground moves according to where the majority vote share lies and is constantly malleable? If 1 in a 1000 people talk to plants and spend the weekend hugging trees like the greenies do, you don't think that one person is extreme? Of course it could be reversed and 999/1000do the tree hugging and 1 doesn't... see what I mean?

To go back to yougov: https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...e-1b0957da78b7

Climate change protesters have been disrupting roads and public transport, aiming to “shut down London” in order to bring attention the their cause. Do you support or oppose these actions?

35% strongly or somewhat support. This number will only grow larger while climate change-denying baby boomers die off (the sooner the better). So, not 1 in 1000 as you state above.

The centre ground, like it or not is occupied currently by the Brexit party. Those moving away from that centre ground are moving towards the extremities... the Lib Dems/Greenies are travelling along that path away from the centre.

No, this is untrue. Those supporting the Brexit party remain, thankfully, a minority.

Just because you lot can organise your vote / screech the loudest, does not necessarily mean you’ll end up winning. Thank heavens.

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C'mon Mr D, I'm up for an argument tonight.

Bad day in the office - couldn't get my fingers around the chords, as it were.

I genuinely don't know where you're coming from.

If you're trolling: you're doing a very good job, congratulations.

If you're not trolling: you're not doing a very good job because you're failing to convince me - a slightly eurosceptic Remainer (and by this I mean specifically I do not think further fiscal integration of any other than France / Germany / Benelux is a good idea) to get behind Leaving. I still think we should be in the EU benefitting from social integration e.g., Macron's open letter, but opposing fiscal integration

Edit...

And, before you refer to the 1st referendum e.g., teh will of the peoplez, you should look no further than the genuine & likely prospect of a 2nd referendum.

Which you would prefer I voted for on a three way ballot: Remain or Leave with May's deal or Leave with no deal?

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I can't even post coherently, so I'm done.

Going to listen to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and seduce my other half. GN...

[Dizzeeyooo]

Well the Brexit party is a moderate centrist party who just have a desire to uphold democracy

Also a desire to relax negative attitudes to pedophilia in society apparently, unless Claire Fox is an anomaly in the party?

[dribbles]

To go back to yougov: https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...e-1b0957da78b7

Climate change protesters have been disrupting roads and public transport, aiming to “shut down London” in order to bring attention the their cause. Do you support or oppose these actions?

35% strongly or somewhat support. This number will only grow larger while climate change-denying baby boomers die off (the sooner the better). So, not 1 in 1000 as you state above.



No, this is untrue. Those supporting the Brexit party remain, thankfully, a minority.

Just because you lot can organise your vote / screech the loudest, does not necessarily mean you’ll end up winning. Thank heavens.

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C'mon Mr D, I'm up for an argument tonight.

Bad day in the office - couldn't get my fingers around the chords, as it were.

I genuinely don't know where you're coming from.

If you're trolling: you're doing a very good job, congratulations.

If you're not trolling: you're not doing a very good job because you're failing to convince me - a slightly eurosceptic Remainer (and by this I mean specifically I do not think further fiscal integration of any other than France / Germany / Benelux is a good idea) to get behind Leaving. I still think we should be in the EU benefitting from social integration e.g., Macron's open letter, but opposing fiscal integration

Edit...

And, before you refer to the 1st referendum e.g., teh will of the peoplez, you should look no further than the genuine & likely prospect of a 2nd referendum.

Which you would prefer I voted for on a three way ballot: Remain or Leave with May's deal or Leave with no deal?

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I can't even post coherently, so I'm done.

Going to listen to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and seduce my other half. GN...

Apologies Nigel I was playing catch up on Game of Thrones...but

Hasn't Le Pen in the last day or two overtaken Macron in EU election polling? I'm not sure Macron's open letter has much legitimacy considering the weekly riots he presides over and the likely coming election results...

And Remain is equal to May's deal, the only Brexit option in that 3 way is to leave with no deal. Are you happy to split the remain vote?

And Beethoven? As you might understand I'm more an Elgar fan for obvious reasons...

Also a desire to relax negative attitudes to pedophilia in society apparently, unless Claire Fox is an anomaly in the party?

If true, and not a silly quote taken out of context, that's disgraceful. But a party, not a month from launch, is highly likely within the millions and millions drawn to it to have ended up with 1 or 2 bad apples. Contrast that with the Labour and Tory party who have had decades to sort it and yet have failed. What's their excuse?

Are you telling me my vote would be better placed with UKIP? Or if I were in the NW Tommy Robinson? Please advise...