View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #16861
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Apart from the fact that it was Sir John Kerr that decided to dismiss the Australian PM and he did not inform the Queen prior to doing so.
    Sir John Kerr was the Governor General at the time. I.E. her direct representative. What the GG in Australia says, is said in the name of the Queen. Anyway, you're pushing the thread OT so...

    The Motions being debated this evening are:


    • Motion C: Committing the government to negotiating "a permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union with the EU" as part of any Brexit deal - proposed by Tory former chancellor Ken Clarke
    • Motion D: Referred to as Common Market 2.0, this option would mean joining the European Free Trade Association and European Economic Area - proposed by Tory MP Nick Boles
    • Motion E: This is for a confirmatory referendum, giving the public a vote to approve any Brexit deal passed by Parliament before it can be implemented - proposed by Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson
    • Motion G: The motion aims to prevent the UK leaving without a deal, including a vote on whether to revoke Article 50 - stopping Brexit - if the EU does not agree to an extension - proposed by the SNP's Joanna Cherry

    The motions not being put to a vote are:

    • A unilateral exit to the backstop (presumably because the EU would simply say "no")
    • To leave on 12 April without a deal (rejected multiple times already)
    • To hold a referendum in the case of no-deal (Motion E would provide for a referendum)
    • To rejoin the European Free Trade Association (duplicate motion to Motion D).

    The Government is getting their full money's worth out of the DUP, which has confirmed they are abstaining on all votes this evening. Man, those 1.5 billion pounds were so well spent, it could have been Grayling's idea to bribe the DUP.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-04-01 at 07:05 PM.

  2. #16862
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    FPTP is on its way out, Mr D.

    This fiasco is a complete and utter sham.

    It all needs to change: our media, our politics, the whole fucking lot. Adversarial politics needs to be dispensed with and we need to embrace consensus politics.

    You, know - I'm a remainer; however, I'd go along with May's deal or a soft Brexit to avoid conflict. All I hear from you idealogues on the fringes is: conflict, conflict & more conflict.

    I will heartily cheer the Tories splitting and the right of her party (and indeed the country) disappearing off angrily into the good night.

    And you know what that will mean? The result of your inability to compromise? Corbyn and co. in Downing St. Personally, I can live with this. Can you?
    I don't believe FPTP is going anywhere, it is too cushty for the 2 main parties neither of whom want to see 50 UKIP/Lib Dems/Buckethead MP's in parliament.

    I think there is more chance of PM Johnson than that or a Corbyn led UK...

  3. #16863
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I don't believe FPTP is going anywhere, it is too cushty for the 2 main parties neither of whom want to see 50 UKIP/Lib Dems/Buckethead MP's in parliament.

    I think there is more chance of PM Johnson than that or a Corbyn led UK...
    Yes - but if the Tories split? Or do you think this isn't a serious possibility?

  4. #16864
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Imagine thinking one of the weakest PMs in history could bully Her Majesty.

    These results could be very close tonight, a lot of cross party support.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Yes - but if the Tories split? Or do you think this isn't a serious possibility?
    Labour aren't going to stay intact either under Corbyn.

  5. #16865
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Yes - but if the Tories split? Or do you think this isn't a serious possibility?
    Oh no sure they may split, but you think momentum led Corbyn and Labour is more unifying than a Boris Johnson led Tory party? Blair was right yesterday when he said in a face-off Johnson would win. There still won't be enough votes in either scenarios to get rid of FPTP.

  6. #16866
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Imagine thinking one of the weakest PMs in history could bully Her Majesty.

    These results could be very close tonight, a lot of cross party support.
    If I'm not mistaken, the selected motions all have cross-party signatories.


    Labour aren't going to stay intact either under Corbyn.
    Labour could do much worse than put Keir Starmer in charge of the party.

  7. #16867
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Sir John Kerr was the Governor General at the time. I.E. her direct representative. What the GG in Australia says, is said in the name of the Queen. Anyway, you're pushing the thread OT so...
    It still doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. Perhaps you should have thought about whether or not this was OT when you first posted your inaccurate information?

  8. #16868
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Labour aren't going to stay intact either under Corbyn.
    Great, even better...

    But the problem, though, is that the party that splits first will give incentive to the other party to maintain unity.

    Hence, Corbyn coming out *finally* in favour of BRINO to force the Tories' hand. Definitely a political move. Yet more party politics!

    I'm surprised there hasn't been more comment about this - it's monumental. He's literally telling his working class northern voters to fuck off. He's fannied around for god knows how long and now he's finally gone for it - three days too late.

    They need to split at exactly the same time!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh no sure they may split, but you think momentum led Corbyn and Labour is more unifying than a Boris Johnson led Tory party? Blair was right yesterday when he said in a face-off Johnson would win. There still won't be enough votes in either scenarios to get rid of FPTP.
    Fair enough - but that's a massive, massive gamble isn't it. No - I think Corbyn would win.

  9. #16869
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Perhaps you should have thought about whether or not this was OT when you first posted your inaccurate information?
    Perhaps you should read up about diplomatic representation before trying to be a pedant.

  10. #16870
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Fair enough - but that's a massive, massive gamble isn't it. No - I think Corbyn would win.
    I think the scenario were FPTP is removed is one of a minority Labour government that enters in a coalition with other parties that demand that FPTP is put to a referendum with an actual alternative.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  11. #16871
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Perhaps you should read up about diplomatic representation before trying to be a pedant.
    Just admit that you were wrong. But I will do. Whilst I'm at it perhaps you could look up the word pedant so as you can avoid this kind of unintentional irony in future.
    Last edited by Pann; 2019-04-01 at 07:23 PM.

  12. #16872
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the scenario were FPTP is removed is one of a minority Labour government that enters in a coalition with other parties that demand that FPTP is put to a referendum with an actual alternative.
    FPTP was put to the ballot not too long ago (2011 IIRC) and was rejected, I don't know if public opinion has changed enough to make that a headline topic for the election manifesto.

  13. #16873
    High Overlord Vermented's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    What Cameron asked was to remove Freedom of Movement. Which is the same thing the AfD asks for. So no, no one could have given them that and no one is going to give it to the AfD either.
    Indeed. Freedom of movement is a core foundation of the EU and cannot be separated from the other core foundations.

    It will blow over. Right-extremist parties across the EU are speaking less and less about leaving the EU, even France FN is silent about "Frexit". Russia, which is supporting many of the anti-EU parties across Europe, is under pressure b/c of the sanctions that are costing Putin votes. The sanctions will increase slowly at least until the next Russian elections in 2024.

  14. #16874
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    FPTP was put to the ballot not too long ago and was rejected, I don't know if public opinion has changed enough to make that a headline topic for the election manifesto.
    What was put to the ballot was a weak alternative that would do nothing because Lib Dems could not push for something bigger and the Tories set up the referendum to fail. I am talking about a referendum were the alternative option is PR, not just FPTP but you don't have to vote strategically.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  15. #16875
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I think the scenario were FPTP is removed is one of a minority Labour government that enters in a coalition with other parties that demand that FPTP is put to a referendum with an actual alternative.
    Hmmms... yes, I wonder if I'm barking up the wrong tree. It's a bit unlikely isn't it?

    Either way, it is - without a shadow of a doubt - the most important thing that could come about as a result of this.

    ---

    https://twitter.com/NickWhithorn/sta...34855805812736

    Umberto Eco identified 14 typical features of fascism. At least 10 of them have manifested themselves during the brexit process (use of lower case 'b' intentional)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    FPTP was put to the ballot not too long ago (2011 IIRC) and was rejected, I don't know if public opinion has changed enough to make that a headline topic for the election manifesto.
    Fuck public opinion, to be honest. The decision needs to be made above their heads.

    [Yes, I appreciate the irony]
    Last edited by LeGin Tufnel; 2019-04-01 at 07:28 PM.

  16. #16876
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Fuck public opinion, to be honest. The decision needs to be made above their heads.

    [Yes, I appreciate the irony]
    We could just cut out the middleman and get rid of elections altogether.

  17. #16877
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Labour could do much worse than put Keir Starmer in charge of the party.
    One constantly lives in hope for this outcome.

  18. #16878
    Apparently nearly 200 Tories have signed a letter to the PM begging for a "managed no-deal".

    I mean, what even is "managed no-deal"? I'm assuming it has something to do with geese that lay golden eggs riding unicorns across a rainbow, trailing sparkles.

  19. #16879
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Apparently nearly 200 Tories have signed a letter to the PM begging for a "managed no-deal".

    I mean, what even is "managed no-deal"? I'm assuming it has something to do with geese that lay golden eggs riding unicorns across a rainbow, trailing sparkles.
    It's trading with the EU under WTO where the EU will actually buckle and give them everything they want in small individual agreements instead.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #16880
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Apparently nearly 200 Tories have signed a letter to the PM begging for a "managed no-deal".

    I mean, what even is "managed no-deal"? I'm assuming it has something to do with geese that lay golden eggs riding unicorns across a rainbow, trailing sparkles.
    It's actually a trap, all the signatories are going to to be sequestered for the rest of the Brexit process because they are too fucking stupid to be trusted to take part anymore.

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