View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #17161
    Legendary! Zelk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    They are not kicking the UK. The UK chose to have a referendum. The UK chose honor it. The UK triggered the articles and set the date of their departure. The UK took months after that to come to the negotiating table and months more to actually bring any concrete proposals to it. I honestly do not understand why you think there is any spite in the EU not granting ANOTHER extension to the UK if the UK can present no evidence that something might actually change at the end of that second extension.
    oh my god, again I'm not even talking about the EU doing it I'm talking about the people here saying they want it to happen because they're pissed off by the process. This is the 4th time I've said this now, please read it and try to understand.

  2. #17162
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    oh my god, again I'm not even talking about the EU doing it I'm talking about the people here saying they want it to happen because they're pissed off by the process. This is the 4th time I've said this now, please read it and try to understand.
    More people should have voted remain, more people should have opposed, look what happens in other nations when politics fuck up. We riot we don't cry that the other party is unfair.

    I mean this is just the world upside down, you have the EU constantly asking of the UK to get their house in order, constantly telling the UK that millions will suffer from the beginning, constantly people advocating for a deal exit on the highest levels, constantly coming back to the negotiation table while the UK was rarely to NEVER prepared.

    And now after 3 years, 3 years of putting the EU markets in an unstable position, putting the politics on important matters in the freezer for the brexit antics and even some are now considering risking the legality of an EU election to give the UK more time, now you have the balls to say the EU and its citizens are unjust, unfair in saying;

    "well guys you wanted out majority of you voted for it, it does not matter if majority of the nation didn't vote or abstained, it doesn't matter if we all found leave vote win to have a too small victory margin, it's your politics, it is your form of democracy, it's time to fuck off since you can't meet any consensus and we can't and aren't allowed to fix your politics even if we wanted to"
    .

    Also the brits like to make fun out of the French, but if this took place in France the government would have fallen a dozen of times by now.

    White flag raising much?
    Last edited by Acidbaron; 2019-04-02 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #17163
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    Because a no deal will lead to increased poverty and will be especially harmful to the disabled and people with long teerm illnesses.
    Tell that to the UK government that set everything in motion with no plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    They are not kicking the UK. The UK chose to have a referendum. The UK chose honor it. The UK triggered the articles and set the date of their departure. The UK took months after that to come to the negotiating table and months more to actually bring any concrete proposals to it. I honestly do not understand why you think there is any spite in the EU not granting ANOTHER extension to the UK if the UK can present no evidence that something might actually change at the end of that second extension.
    Lets not forget May holding back a vote for months on her deal because she KNEW it would lose, but we'll still have a go at the EU for not negotiating more. Or that May chose to do a snap election that fucked with her majority so put us in a position we were unlikely to ever get a deal through. We and we alone are at fault.
    Last edited by draykorinee; 2019-04-02 at 12:42 PM.

  4. #17164
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Very scary isn't it. Don't suppose it is anything to do with the EU is it? You know the polarisation and breakdown of society, the rise of extremists. I mean government, the EU, has no blame in that does it?

    I wouldn't be so presumptuous, unlike you, to call the AfD extremists, I don't know them well enough but look at their performance from nothing. 2013 they got what 5% in the vote, that'd be about 3 million extremist votes in your book? Then they poodle along doing not much other than watch the EU doing its worst. 5 years later in 2018 they got 13% of the vote so that's 6 million extremists now? A doubling in 5 years, well done the EU I guess. Any prediction for 5 years from now? 12 million extremists? Another 5 - 25 million, and so on and so on... very very scary.

    At some point todays extremists/main opposition will become mainstream in Germany no? And the tables turn with only a handful of EU supporters left, the new extremists...Well done the EU.

    And then there is Brexit. Well done to the EU for that?
    In the post I've quoted you wrote
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    All I ever hear here is the wonders of PR and yet it allows huge representation (94 MP'S) of extremists
    ... what are you smoking currently?

    The rest of your post is just your usual gibberish.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  5. #17165
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But there was no negotiation. A negotiation suggests that two parties bring proposals and then discuss them. The UK brought a proposal and then the EU discussed it among its members, NOT with the UK. In the same way the additional details offered in the second May's Deal were not a negotiation either. They were just clarifications in a legally binding form that were entirely drawn from the original agreement.

    The EU has been done negotiating since 2018.
    If May was to get rid of a red line or two you would see the EU be willing to continue negotiation. With May's current red lines though there is not much farther the EU can go without getting rid of one or more of their four main tenants. And if they do that for the UK the whole thing likely falls apart.

  6. #17166
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    People often forget pr are unaware why AfD or in my nation Vlaams Belang attract their voters, it often requires you to take a far deeper look than what is seen on the surface as simply racism. I mean it's an interesting topic and being right wing myself i often come in contact with such people but it would derail this topic far too much, so i will keep it rather short, behind every form of racism there's a story of, from abuse of to discontent of their current social status and opportunities, on top of that you have a society that is changing and were the balance isn't always equal or far from fair to the local residents. On top of that these parties as at times picked as the anti-establishment pick, to go in against the traditional parties, what is something you also see in the EU on the rise new parties or reformed new parties taking charge.
    I'm not really sure how you can justify your daily whining about Brexit with this apologia for neo-nazism in Germany. Brexit supporters and the Afd are very similar politically. Do you only like nationalist groups from places that regularly invade your country?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    In the post I've quoted you wrote ... what are you smoking currently?

    The rest of your post is just your usual gibberish.
    It was a very simple point. Proportional representation allowed a large number of neo-nazis into the German parliament.
    Last edited by blothmoth; 2019-04-02 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #17167
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    Why's it my fault that the UK government has acted in the way it has? I didn't vote for a fucking tory. I can throw the same back at you and blame all the ills of the European Union on you but I won't because that's ridiculous. You don't seem to realise that forcing the UK into a no deal brexit (by denying an extension which is the suggestion I was replying to) means the EU is also at fault.
    It is in no way the EU's fault. The EU has 4 founding pillars. They are never going to be taken away because to take away just one for anyone basically ends the EU. It's like telling the US to basically destroy their consitution for a breakaway state. They will not do it as it would basically destroy the US. The EU side of the situation was that this was a legal process and allow the UK to come up with something that would be acceptable to the EU (doesn't break the 4 pillars) and the UK (Also known as May's suicidal red lines).

    Things like the backstop came from whitehall not brussels, strasbourg, berlin, paris, whatever. It was something May brought up. Everything within the agreement basically came from the UK side of things and the EU basically made sure it doesn't break the 4 pillars. That was it. Since from their pov this is a legal process not a negotiation.

    The negotiation part comes next, regardless if there's a deal or not. Because everyone needs to know the state of where each country/region is before they begin true negotiations.

  8. #17168
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    It is in no way the EU's fault. The EU has 4 founding pillars. They are never going to be taken away because to take away just one for anyone basically ends the EU. It's like telling the US to basically destroy their consitution for a breakaway state. They will not do it as it would basically destroy the US. The EU side of the situation was that this was a legal process and allow the UK to come up with something that would be acceptable to the EU (doesn't break the 4 pillars) and the UK (Also known as May's suicidal red lines).

    Things like the backstop came from whitehall not brussels, strasbourg, berlin, paris, whatever. It was something May brought up. Everything within the agreement basically came from the UK side of things and the EU basically made sure it doesn't break the 4 pillars. That was it. Since from their pov this is a legal process not a negotiation.

    The negotiation part comes next, regardless if there's a deal or not. Because everyone needs to know the state of where each country/region is before they begin true negotiations.
    This is an adequate description and also correctly points out the misunderstandings of the EU that is prevalent in the UK. About all of it. About what the EU does, how it works, what the core of the EU is, what they plainly told the UK (yes, the UK didn't listen... and it shows).

    Without checking it... go to the UK parliament's Youtube channel, watch the latest debate (or live even), watch them pretend they're still in a negotiation. Watch them talk about trade deals when the EU hasn't even said one thing about future trade relations. Watch them act as if they can still go to the EU and change the terms that have been chiselled in stone back in November.

    I mean, let's assume for a freak second the HoC isn't full of clowns in a very bad comedy skit... let's assume they actually manage to agree to anything that isn't no-deal, no-Brexit or May's deal. Whatever it is they come up with, will get kicked back from Brussels. All the deals they have on the table, regardless of their political support, are so way not magic enough for the EU to reconsider anything.
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  9. #17169
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blothmoth View Post
    It was a very simple point. Proportional representation allowed a large number of neo-nazis into the German parliament.
    Good thing you're banned most of the time because you can't even follow a discussion containing only 4 posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  10. #17170
    So yet another extension it seems??

  11. #17171
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidz View Post
    So yet another extension it seems??
    Hasn't been granted yet. And she is not asking for a long extension. All I am reading is she thinks she can bully Corbyn into whipping Labour to sign her deal.

  12. #17172
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Hasn't been granted yet. And she is not asking for a long extension. All I am reading is she thinks she can bully Corbyn into whipping Labour to sign her deal.
    It's like she wasn't even listening when Bercow ruled on bringing the same piece of legislation up for vote repeatedly.

    Corbyn and May both need to be exiled to Belfast and replaced.

  13. #17173
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    It's like she wasn't even listening when Bercow ruled on bringing the same piece of legislation up for vote repeatedly.

    Corbyn and May both need to be exiled to Belfast and replaced.
    That's really mean to Belfast.

  14. #17174
    High Overlord Vermented's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidz View Post
    So yet another extension it seems??
    The UK will get 1 final extension until 22 may, the day before the EU elections.

  15. #17175
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    That's really mean to Belfast.
    NI inflicted us with the DUP so I'm none too happy with it at present.

  16. #17176
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Hasn't been granted yet. And she is not asking for a long extension. All I am reading is she thinks she can bully Corbyn into whipping Labour to sign her deal.
    She is just re-phrasing the trap that was there before - requesting an extension beyond April 12th and refusing to consider the UK participating in EU elections means that from April 13th onwards our choices are May's deal or no deal, and nothing else.

    Bringing the useful idiot Corbyn into the picture is just a means to legitimise locking the UK into those two choices, if Labour refuse to go along with it then she also has the option to blame them for the effects of no deal.

    Ideally the EU makes UK participation in the election (or at least preparation for participation) a condition of any second extension.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-04-02 at 05:47 PM.

  17. #17177
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    She is just re-phrasing the trap that was there before - requesting an extension beyond April 12th and refusing to consider the UK participating in EU elections means that from April 13th onwards our choices are May's deal or no deal, and nothing else.

    Bringing Corbyn into the picture is just a means to legitimise locking the UK into those two choices.

    Ideally the EU makes UK participation in the election (or at least preparation for participation) a condition of any second extension.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...KCN1RE0JB?il=0

    See I don't mind what May describes here except:
    a) I don't trust May at all
    b) This process won't be completed in time so they'd need the longer extension.

    Imo it's a trick to try and share more responsibility for this failure with Labour so when No Deal and the inevitable GE come they can point fingers at Corbyn.

  18. #17178
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    it's a trick to try and share more responsibility for this failure with Labour so when No Deal and the inevitable GE come they can point fingers at Corbyn.
    You anticipated my edit

  19. #17179
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Imo it's a trick to try and share more responsibility for this failure with Labour so when No Deal and the inevitable GE come they can point fingers at Corbyn.
    Probably. Both May and Corbyn by this stage should be persuing a CU but since May will just want to push her deal and Corbyn wouldn't mind a crash out then I have no doubt this will be unproductive politicing. When it comes to negotiating with anyone inside the HoC then May is about as bad faith as you can get.

  20. #17180
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Probably. Both May and Corbyn by this stage should be persuing a CU but since May will just want to push her deal and Corbyn wouldn't mind a crash out then I have no doubt this will be unproductive politicing. When it comes to negotiating with anyone inside the HoC then May is about as bad faith as you can get.
    Also there is the very critical failure of May NOT making this as a joint statement with Corbyn. She has shown zero interest so far with working with anyone, has completely sidelined the opposition and is now expecting to come to an agreement with Corbyn and presents that he will come to the table willing to work with her as fact to the EU? The utter arrogance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    You anticipated my edit
    It's probably because UK politics are so painfully transparent.

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