View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #17601
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Which would violate the EU treaties.
    Not really, the Lisbon treaty foresees that the number of commissioners need to be set by unanimous council decision, so the number could be reduced, or increased in theory.
    That's my understanding at least.

  2. #17602
    Dreadlord Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Not really, the Lisbon treaty foresees that the number of commissioners need to be set by unanimous council decision, so the number could be reduced, or increased in theory.
    That's my understanding at least.
    Right, so if one country says no to this then I guess France will veto the delay, putting the UK on a collision course with reality the 12th. we'll see how it plays out. Of course, even if all countries agree, does the HoC still need to agree with this condition?

  3. #17603
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Right, so if one country says no to this then I guess France will veto the delay, putting the UK on a collision course with reality the 12th. we'll see how it plays out. Of course, even if all countries agree, does the HoC still need to agree with this condition?
    I don't really see France vetoing the delay. I wonder if May would refuse such a condition however … I guess we'll find out tonight

    It looks like the treaties only mention that there should be less commissioners than member states. Under the current model there is the president, 26 commissioners and the country that is not represented gets the high representative post, but they could potentially reduce the number.

  4. #17604
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Of course, even if all countries agree, does the HoC still need to agree with this condition?
    If all countries (including Theresa May) agree, the extension will happen at an international level. The HoC could vote against it (the ERG tried and failed to do this with the last extension), but that would just lead to domestic UK legal issues - a disconnect between UK law saying we have left and international law saying we have not left.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-04-10 at 10:43 AM.

  5. #17605
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Not really, the Lisbon treaty foresees that the number of commissioners need to be set by unanimous council decision, so the number could be reduced, or increased in theory.
    That's my understanding at least.
    Ah, I think you're right. After 2014, it is no longer required to have each member state contribute members. Having said that, they still sit in the Council and the EP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    If all countries (including Theresa May) agree, the extension will happen at an international level. The HoC could vote against it (the ERG tried and failed to do this with the last extension), but that would just lead to domestic UK legal issues - a disconnect between UK law saying we have left and international law saying we have not left.
    It's not just international law, it's EU law. International law is... flexible, it can be bent and ignored. EU law takes legal precedence. That's hardcoded and whatever the legal problems in the UK are, they become void if they contradict EU law.

    See, the UK agreed to this when they helped create the EU. Before anyone comes up with oppression again.
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  6. #17606
    Dreadlord Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    If all countries (including Theresa May) agree, the extension will happen at an international level. The HoC could vote against it (the ERG tried and failed to do this with the last extension), but that would just lead to domestic UK legal issues - a disconnect between UK law saying we have left and international law saying we have not left.
    I don't particularly care about domestic UK issues, I just want this lunacy done with. I would prefer no delay and the UK gone Friday as this has gone on long enough and I'm saying that as a true EU-believer.

  7. #17607
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Ah, I think you're right. After 2014, it is no longer required to have each member state contribute members. Having said that, they still sit in the Council and the EP.
    Sure, although there were talks to have meetings with the 27 for all matters related to the EU's future, and keep the UK out of them. The actual votes would then happen once the UK left if they think it's something that could be opposed. (which could work with a short extension).
    As for the EP I expect them to show up to collect their paychecks and head home at the first opportunity. I'd be surprised if any British MEP get serious roles in committees.

  8. #17608
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Sure, although there were talks to have meetings with the 27 for all matters related to the EU's future, and keep the UK out of them. The actual votes would then happen once the UK left if they think it's something that could be opposed. (which could work with a short extension).
    As for the EP I expect them to show up to collect their paychecks and head home at the first opportunity. I'd be surprised if any British MEP get serious roles in committees.
    Have you not heard Farage talk? He loves being a cunt. He'll spent every minute he doesn't have to be in a committee in parliament insulting the fuck out of everybody until someone mans up and punches his frogface in. And even then you'll hear him insult the paramedics on the way to the hospital...
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  9. #17609
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Which would violate the EU treaties.
    Just like some of the outlandish Brexit proposals. They're just bargaining positions.

  10. #17610
    The EP election could actually become a rather interesting test of the state of mind of the UK. Remainers - if they have any sense - ought to do everything they could to send their people in order to show a serious interest in good relations with and participation in the EU. If the UK sends us Nigel Farage clones or worse I will seriously consider joining the "Fuck off UK - Deal or no deal" crowd.

    Of course we also have the ever present option of utter apathy, miserable voter turn-out and disinterested second-rate candidates.

  11. #17611
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibblewink View Post
    Of course we also have the ever present option of utter apathy, miserable voter turn-out and disinterested second-rate candidates.
    I put my money on this one. Whoever runs for the EP elections in the UK has little chance of actually having a job in the end, unless there is a long extension. And if they do it might be only for a few months. I'd expect only third-rate wankers and UKIP wannabes to run.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Have you not heard Farage talk? He loves being a cunt. He'll spent every minute he doesn't have to be in a committee in parliament insulting the fuck out of everybody until someone mans up and punches his frogface in. And even then you'll hear him insult the paramedics on the way to the hospital...
    Oh I have, but he has tabled about 2 motions in all his career, and has worked basically in the fish committee and not much else. He is loud, and he is a cunt, but that does not make him influential in the EP, nor particularly useful or threatening either way. He is just a waste of money and oxygen.
    He sits in the EP because he has no chance at home, just like Le Pen.
    edit: Look at his voting record … https://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-vo...tatistics.html he is ranking 747 out of 749 with 40% participation in votes.
    Last edited by Demolitia; 2019-04-10 at 02:13 PM.

  12. #17612
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Tell me why you believe that the backstop isn't a legitimate threat to UK sovereignty then? Geoffrey Cox couldn't sign off on it and he's the AG.
    It isn't though.
    For one simple reason: The GFA.
    There is no way for the UK to get out of the GFA short of breaking it, thus the backstop makes no difference--unless the UK thinks agreements with the RoI do not matter to begin with.

    The backstop is onle a threat to UK sovereignty if one assumes that the UK will break the GFA no matter what, that it negotiates in bad faith.

  13. #17613
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    It isn't though.
    For one simple reason: The GFA.
    There is no way for the UK to get out of the GFA short of breaking it, thus the backstop makes no difference--unless the UK thinks agreements with the RoI do not matter to begin with.

    The backstop is onle a threat to UK sovereignty if one assumes that the UK will break the GFA no matter what, that it negotiates in bad faith.
    I don't think the UK government and most of the voters give a fuck about the GFA. So what if some Irish blood is spilled? It is a price worth paying if it means less Poles and Moozies.
    Quote Originally Posted by FurryFoxWolf View Post
    crazy people gonna have there dog put down for rape after they hump there leg
    Quote Originally Posted by FurryFoxWolf View Post
    feminists they always look like a hippo thats rolled in dogshit and then hit with a nuclear weapon and lived

  14. #17614
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    I don't think the UK government and most of the voters give a fuck about the GFA. So what if some Irish blood is spilled? It is a price worth paying if it means less Poles and Moozies.
    That's what I think, too, thus there is no reason for them not to accept the backstop, really.
    If they really want they can break it, too. If they have no honour to begin with then no agreement ever will limit their "sovereignty".
    (Because someone who cannot enter binding agreements does not have any.)

  15. #17615
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    That's what I think, too, thus there is no reason for them not to accept the backstop, really.
    If they really want they can break it, too. If they have no honour to begin with then no agreement ever will limit their "sovereignty".
    (Because someone who cannot enter binding agreements does not have any.)
    A good point.
    Quote Originally Posted by FurryFoxWolf View Post
    crazy people gonna have there dog put down for rape after they hump there leg
    Quote Originally Posted by FurryFoxWolf View Post
    feminists they always look like a hippo thats rolled in dogshit and then hit with a nuclear weapon and lived

  16. #17616
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    That's what I think, too, thus there is no reason for them not to accept the backstop, really.
    If they really want they can break it, too. If they have no honour to begin with then no agreement ever will limit their "sovereignty".
    (Because someone who cannot enter binding agreements does not have any.)
    It is a good point, but the people arguing that the backstop will "trap" the UK are not arguing in good faith to begin with, so logic does not really change the situation.

  17. #17617
    Quote Originally Posted by tehealadin View Post
    I don't think the UK government and most of the voters give a fuck about the GFA. So what if some Irish blood is spilled? It is a price worth paying if it means less Poles and Moozies.
    Except that a fair amount of the bombings went on in london and other parts of the UK as well. I think people have just stupidly forgot how ugly and dangerous shit was getting before the GFA took hold. Although honestly I think if a hard border or a hard bexit go up the push for irish unification would be pretty strong and there is a good chance that northern ireland votes to reunify.

  18. #17618
    off topic about the banking system

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    That's a load of bollocks. You can change the system properly without burning everything down.
    You kinda have to burn it down to change, tho. Our banking system is a fractional reserve system, to change the system you'd have to get rid of it which pretty much means burning the system down. Look up "Giralgeldschöpfung", but a bit deeper than the wikipedia article. Try something like this book.

  19. #17619
    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    Except that a fair amount of the bombings went on in london and other parts of the UK as well. I think people have just stupidly forgot how ugly and dangerous shit was getting before the GFA took hold. Although honestly I think if a hard border or a hard bexit go up the push for irish unification would be pretty strong and there is a good chance that northern ireland votes to reunify.
    I think a lot of people don't even know about the bombings in England. I live maybe 20 mins from Guildford and I would say the majority of people I have spoken to about these sorts of things don't know there was an IRA bomb there.

  20. #17620
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    off topic about the banking system



    You kinda have to burn it down to change, tho. Our banking system is a fractional reserve system, to change the system you'd have to get rid of it which pretty much means burning the system down. Look up "Giralgeldschöpfung", but a bit deeper than the wikipedia article. Try something like this book.
    I didn't say it was easy. But the alternative would be people dying. No, that's not an option.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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