View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18261
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    We are 17.4 million
    Prove it. Prove that, right now, as you read this, there are 17.4m people in the UK Leave camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibblewink View Post
    Good Lord the amount of stupidity on that forum is staggering...
    I read 2 pages of a thread and had to leave, I could actually feel my brain start melting at the delusions of the posters there.

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    Farage and Extinction Rebellion: two politics of protest, only one has a future

    Pretty decent opinion piece.
    Often updated... ?

  2. #18262
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    only 17million, wasnt the combined UK population like 66million?
    While I agree it's not right to say 17m is the majority of people in the UK, it's still the majority of people who gave a fuck and actually voted. Anyone not voting is basically saying "whatever dude, I am behind the option that wins".

  3. #18263
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    While I agree it's not right to say 17m is the majority of people in the UK, it's still the majority of people who gave a fuck and actually voted. Anyone not voting is basically saying "whatever dude, I am behind the option that wins".
    The real question is how many of those 17 million believe in leaving at any cost now it has become so obvious that the Leave campaign was so full of lies. Would they all still be pro-Brexit even if it was a no-deal disaster, a bad deal capitulation or a Brexit-In-Name-Only pointless endeavour?

  4. #18264
    You can think about Farage what you like (I think he is a giant twat) but he saw that things are not going how he wants it and made a new party.

    Where is The Remain Party if people changed their minds? I don't think any of the existing parties is pro-brexit, so if you want to remain you have to make your own. An anti-brexit-march is nice and all, but doesn't change a thing.

  5. #18265
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    You can think about Farage what you like (I think he is a giant twat) but he saw that things are not going how he wants it and made a new party.

    Where is The Remain Party if people changed their minds? I don't think any of the existing parties is pro-brexit, so if you want to remain you have to make your own. An anti-brexit-march is nice and all, but doesn't change a thing.
    The Remain Party is currently ChangeUK and the Lib Dems. Between those 2 and potentially Labour I don't see any merit in creating a "Remain Party".

  6. #18266
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    The Remain Party is currently ChangeUK and the Lib Dems. Between those 2 and potentially Labour I don't see any merit in creating a "Remain Party".
    I guess the problem, though, is that they're fielding candidates against each other. Vince Cabal was bemoaning this last night on Question Time

  7. #18267
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Vince Cabal

    Intentional?
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  8. #18268
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    I guess the problem, though, is that they're fielding candidates against each other. Vince Cabal was bemoaning this last night on Question Time
    That's why I'm not exactly happy with ChangeUK being a thing really with them essentially being the Lib Dems but wanting to and jump to the senior roles they thought they had earned in their previous lives but knew they would never get.

    If Labour are going to be too chickenshit to come out for Remain then they can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned. If that's the future then I'd rather Remainers were able to focus their support rather than have it splintered.

  9. #18269
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    You can think about Farage what you like (I think he is a giant twat) but he saw that things are not going how he wants it and made a new party.
    You say that like its a difficult thing to do in his position?

  10. #18270
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Ahh, oops. Yep - Freudian slip?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    That's why I'm not exactly happy with ChangeUK being a thing really with them essentially being the Lib Dems but wanting to and jump to the senior roles they thought they had earned in their previous lives but knew they would never get.
    Definitely for the EP elections, yep. I think D’Hondt still favours larger shares of the vote? So, if the Greens, CHUK and Lib Dems get 27% of the vote between them, they’ll end up with less seats than they would have done had they run under one banner.

    But in the long term, and looking to domestic elections, I hope the splintering leads to serious pressure to ditch FPTP.

    Will be interesting to see what happens with the manifestos. I think Labour are deciding on Tuesday.

  11. #18271
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    But in the long term, and looking to domestic elections, I hope the splintering leads to serious pressure to ditch FPTP.

    Will be interesting to see what happens with the manifestos. I think Labour are deciding on Tuesday.
    I'm sort of with you. Just again, I don't think ChangeUK helps with that as much as it hinders unless it's going to start doing serious damage to the Cons and Lab rather than just splitting Lib Dem voters like it looks set to do atm.

    Looking to future elections then the Lib Dems and ChangeUK are well positioned providing Sturgeon makes the cost of SNP support impossible to pay because it's Indyref2. That leaves minority governments being propped up by both the centre parties who will be demanding electoral reform as their price.

    Not sure what I'll be doing if Labour back PV in the manifesto we are about to see. Labour by their own rhetoric should already be demanding a PV but Corbyn won't come out for it so even if does become official policy I don't believe Corbyn will implement even if he gets the chance, zero trust in the man.

    So I think I'm pretty decided on Lib Dem for the EU elections and the locals. So I lied. I do know what I'm doing lol.

  12. #18272
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I'm sort of with you. Just again, I don't think ChangeUK helps with that as much as it hinders unless it's going to start doing serious damage to the Cons and Lab rather than just splitting Lib Dem voters like it looks set to do atm.

    Looking to future elections then the Lib Dems and ChangeUK are well positioned providing Sturgeon makes the cost of SNP support impossible to pay because it's Indyref2. That leaves minority governments being propped up by both the centre parties who will be demanding electoral reform as their price.

    Not sure what I'll be doing if Labour back PV in the manifesto we are about to see. Labour by their own rhetoric should already be demanding a PV but Corbyn won't come out for it so even if does become official policy I don't believe Corbyn will implement even if he gets the chance, zero trust in the man.

    So I think I'm pretty decided on Lib Dem for the EU elections and the locals. So I lied. I do know what I'm doing lol.
    I've said on this thread before that they will have to be sensible about PV. They can't put it to a referendum, because there are still too many people with vested interests in the big two that will want to vote against it. It has to be imposed as an improvement to the massively unrepresentative FPTP system, not put forward as an option if people want it. This is too important to get wrong; a proper PV system should mean that we can recognise movements in peoples ideologies (rather than masking them as we do at the moment) while ensuring that people believe their voice is being heard, which should stop the movement to towards extremes at either end of the political spectrum.

    I would still be happy if we ended up with a soft Brexit and we get a proper PV system for our General Elections as a result. That would be a trade-off I would be happy to swallow. Sure, it means we end up with parties like UKIP getting more MPs than they do at the moment. But it would also mean we get more Greens and the like. And the end result will be politics that is forced to be collaborative rather than confrontational; the parties that aren't prepared to work with others would simply be sidelined. Politics in the long run should end up being a more grown-up environment. Or at least it will once we get rid of the children that infect it at the moment.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  13. #18273
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    So I think I'm pretty decided on Lib Dem for the EU elections and the locals. So I lied. I do know what I'm doing lol.
    lol ok

    Whereas I'm now a bit less sure. Pretty much definitely vote independent for locals. Then either Green, Lib Dem or CHUK for EP elections. Will see what they say in their manifestos. I think even if Labour came out in favour of a 2nd ref, it wouldn't be enough to stop me voting for one of the other three.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I would still be happy if we ended up with a soft Brexit and we get a proper PV system for our General Elections as a result. That would be a trade-off I would be happy to swallow. Sure, it means we end up with parties like UKIP getting more MPs than they do at the moment. But it would also mean we get more Greens and the like. And the end result will be politics that is forced to be collaborative rather than confrontational; the parties that aren't prepared to work with others would simply be sidelined. Politics in the long run should end up being a more grown-up environment. Or at least it will once we get rid of the children that infect it at the moment.
    Yes, exactly this.

    AV was always a weak and lacklustre nod in the right direction but actually still just favoured the larger parties. It would have got rid of tactical voting, but that's it. I quite like the Additional Member System as an alternative to STV, assuming people can't get their heads round STV.
    Last edited by LeGin Tufnel; 2019-04-27 at 03:14 PM.

  14. #18274
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I've said on this thread before that they will have to be sensible about PV. They can't put it to a referendum, because there are still too many people with vested interests in the big two that will want to vote against it. It has to be imposed as an improvement to the massively unrepresentative FPTP system, not put forward as an option if people want it. This is too important to get wrong; a proper PV system should mean that we can recognise movements in peoples ideologies (rather than masking them as we do at the moment) while ensuring that people believe their voice is being heard, which should stop the movement to towards extremes at either end of the political spectrum.

    I would still be happy if we ended up with a soft Brexit and we get a proper PV system for our General Elections as a result. That would be a trade-off I would be happy to swallow. Sure, it means we end up with parties like UKIP getting more MPs than they do at the moment. But it would also mean we get more Greens and the like. And the end result will be politics that is forced to be collaborative rather than confrontational; the parties that aren't prepared to work with others would simply be sidelined. Politics in the long run should end up being a more grown-up environment. Or at least it will once we get rid of the children that infect it at the moment.
    I agree with everything you've written there but when I wrote "PV" I meant People's Vote not Proportional Vote lol. Hence the stuff about Labour and Corbyn. In the future I'll write in full what I mean before leaping straight to the acronyms!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    lol ok

    Whereas I'm now a bit less sure. Pretty much definitely vote independent for locals. Then either Green, Lib Dem or CHUK for EP elections. Will see what they say in their manifestos. I think even if Labour came out in favour of a 2nd ref, it wouldn't be enough to stop me voting for one of the other three.
    Alright I might go Green....with the planet being doomed and all that. Just I'm already practically spoiling my ballot in the locals and like you I'm a bit worried about the value of my vote being diminished because of the area I live in and it seems likely the Lib Dems will outperform Green up here.

  15. #18275
    Latest Survation Poll puts the Brexit Party on 27% of the vote (EP elections), equal with Lab.

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/sta...71777399042048

    Opinium has both Lab and Brex on 28%

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/st...77790701445121
    Last edited by Pann; 2019-04-27 at 05:09 PM.

  16. #18276
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I'

    Looking to future elections then the Lib Dems and ChangeUK are well positioned
    Is this the ChangeUK polling at 3% of the vote?

    Did you send them money like Dizzeyroo did? I hear Chukka invests it all in a gambling syndicate.

  17. #18277

    Looking to future elections then the Lib Dems and ChangeUK are well positioned
    You know they are on 3% right now? Jesus, give it up already. No one wants a bunch of backstabbing careerist filth that would sell their own grandmothers to get into power, that's the Lib Dems job.

  18. #18278
    Quote Originally Posted by trathworthas View Post
    You know they are on 3% right now? Jesus, give it up already. No one wants a bunch of backstabbing careerist filth that would sell their own grandmothers to get into power, that's the Lib Dems job.
    I'm not voting for 'em so give what up?

    If we keep getting hung Parliament's then yeah, them and the Lib Dems will be the king makers yeah. Although thinking on it if we had a GE with the Brexit Party in the mix then I'd put money on a Cons/Brexit coalition Govt as sickening as it would be.

  19. #18279
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I'm not voting for 'em so give what up?

    If we keep getting hung Parliament's then yeah, them and the Lib Dems will be the king makers yeah. Although thinking on it if we had a GE with the Brexit Party in the mix then I'd put money on a Cons/Brexit coalition Govt as sickening as it would be.
    Currently Brex are polling at a higher share of the vote than Lib Dem, CHUK and Green combined! I would expect Brexit to have happened (one way or the other) before the next GE and it's possible that support for Brex will fall away once this has happened but if a GE is held before Brexit is completed I think that you're right and a coalition with the Cons is a very real possibility.

  20. #18280
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Currently Brex are polling at a higher share of the vote than Lib Dem, CHUK and Green combined! I would expect Brexit to have happened (one way or the other) before the next GE and it's possible that support for Brex will fall away once this has happened but if a GE is held before Brexit is completed I think that you're right and a coalition with the Cons is a very real possibility.
    Yeah I'd imagine if Brexit was delivered then the Cons should stabilise and you would hope the Brexit Party would disband. But delivering Brexit before the next GE? I really don't know. Will have to see how the Cons react to being crushed in the local and the EU elections.

    If May goes and they put BoJo the clown in charge I think we will see a GE with the Cons coming out on a No Deal platform and taking us out before the extension expires.

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