[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[draykorinee]

Corbyn needs to go asap for us to stand any chance, his reversal means nothing to me. Voting Lib Dem next election.

[Elegiac]

Looks like Corbyn has confirmed Labour will back a 2nd referendum and campaign for the remain side, should one happen.

One wonders just how uncomfortable bottoming out on a fencepost for that long actually is, but hey. Finally.

[mojojojo202]

Corbyn needs to go asap for us to stand any chance, his reversal means nothing to me. Voting Lib Dem next election.

I could see this being a reasonable position if Brexit is absolutely the only thing you care about.

As far as I can tell LibDem policy is just as thin on substance as BXP's; as long as we avoid Brexit everything will be fine.

That's clearly fucking nonsense.

Last time the Lib Dems were presented with a power vs policy/principal decision they decided to prop up a Tory government without a second d thought. What makes you sure they won't do the same again?

[draykorinee]

I could see this being a reasonable position if Brexit is absolutely the only thing you care about.

As far as I can tell LibDem policy is just as thin on substance as BXP's; as long as we avoid Brexit everything will be fine.

That's clearly fucking nonsense.

Last time the Lib Dems were presented with a power vs policy/principal decision they decided to prop up a Tory government without a second d thought. What makes you sure they won't do the same again?

Its not just that, in my constituency labour got 8% of the vote so I'll tactically vote for lib dems as well. I have thrown my vote away by voting Labour before knowing the candidate wouldn't win but I didn't want to support lib dems after they went with the tories.

[Kallisto]

Last time the Lib Dems were presented with a power vs policy/principal decision they decided to prop up a Tory government without a second d thought. What makes you sure they won't do the same again?

For one they would want an implosion of votes.

Secondly with how things are going they'd have higher percentage of MPs.

Thirdly look at coalition and post coalition governments and tell me the tories didn't get more stupud, insane and borderline evil in the post coalition era showing that the LDs held them back.

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Britain Elects have released the latest Yougov Westminster voting intention poll results. In the scenario where Johnson is PM and GE is called before Brexit the Cons would be equal with the LDs on 23% of the vote this jumps to 28% for the Cons if the election was held after Brexit, weirdly 14% would still vote the BXP in this scenario.

In both scenarios Lab would only receive 17% of the vote - will Corbyn's support of remain in the event of a 2nd ref. be enough to reverse Lab's fortunes or will it be too little, too late? Or worse will this alienate leave Lab voters?

It will be interesting to see the next the Yougov Westminster poll to see what difference Lab's new policy and tonight's Con leadership debate make.

Whilst all polls are somewhat all over the place they all show that neither the Cons or Lab would be likely to form a majority in the event of a GE - has the two party stranglehold finally been broken? Or will it all return to normal post Brexit?

https://mailchi.mp/f7643146f4aa/bori...-poll-suggests

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They haven't said what would happen in the event of an early GE so I can only assume that they would stick with the rumoured plan of somehow negotiating a better deal with the EU than the Tories and then campaigning against it in a ref.

Still at least Lab supporters can take heart that no doubt Hunt or Johnson will say something more bonkers in tonight's leadership debate. Perhaps one of them will suggest that post Brexit the upper class will be able to use packs of dogs to chase EU officials around the countryside whilst they follow on horse back, all dressed in red.

On phone so hard to delete the non relevant parts but while we have FPTP any druft away from two party politics us temporary at best. Only question is will it return to cons/lab or will brexit party or LD replace either of them

[mojojojo202]

Its not just that, in my constituency labour got 8% of the vote so I'll tactically vote for lib dems as well. I have thrown my vote away by voting Labour before knowing the candidate wouldn't win but I didn't want to support lib dems after they went with the tories.

I mean, I live ina constituency that has been a Conservative held position for all but 1 year since 1868 (before that there was more than one MP for this constiuency). I get the wasted vote feeling, for me, it's not worth voting for something I hate to prevent something I hate slightly less when I know it isn't going to make a difference anyway. I'd rather just not bother.

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But because of FPTP it has nothing to do with policy, it has to do with your best chance to keep the Tories and BXP out and that may likely be Lib Dem in many constituencies, no?

Im kind of sick of us having to accept this stupid FPTP shit. The more we argue about how to game a stupid system the longer that system will sustain itself.

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For one they would want an implosion of votes.

Secondly with how things are going they'd have higher percentage of MPs.

Thirdly look at coalition and post coalition governments and tell me the tories didn't get more stupud, insane and borderline evil in the post coalition era showing that the LDs held them back.

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- Didn't make a difference last time.

- They'd still remain the minority partner in any coalition.

- Just because what came after was worse, doesn't mean the coalition was anything but a total shit show.

[LeGin Tufnel]

I’m glad that the other unions have brought pressure to bear on McCluskey / Unite & Corbyn. But I’m not sure exactly what it is that people think will change.

Assuming that a) BJ doesn’t find a way of bypassing parliament and forcing a no deal through and b) the EU grant another extension, the outcome of a snap GE with Brexit as the central issue is going to be either a Tory / BXP coalition or a Lab-dominated rainbow coalition.

As a remainer the hope would be that a) Tory rebels bring down the government, b) the EU grants an extension to accommodate a snap election, c) a Lab-rainbow coalition take government, d) EU refuse to renegotiate with Corbyn e) 2nd ref and remain wins.

However, given the vagueries of FPTP and the balance of votes in constituencies that have never seen serious competition between four / five / six “major” parties, it might be more likely there’d be a Tory / BXP coalition. In which case, the UK will be completely and utterly fucked beyond comprehension. Tory / BXP government and no deal.

I am sceptical of anyone suggesting they can predict the result of a snap election. Popular vote polls are completely irrelevant and I don't know why you're arguing about them.

Separately:

a) Fuck Trump. Fucking fuck him up the arse with a pineapple. Criticising a diplomat for truthful analysis written in confidence as part of his job description and then humiliating May in the way he did. I despise May. But fuck Trump. Seriously, he brings shame on the US. I’d rather do business with China. Fuck the Americans. Literally, fuck them.

b) Hunt vs BJ tonight. Delighted that Hunt flagged up the very real possibility of civil war. The UK is teetering on the brink now. If we do not find a compromise, there will be hell to pay.

Im kind of sick of us having to accept this stupid FPTP shit. The more we argue about how to game a stupid system the longer that system will sustain itself.

Yes. So, if there is a snap GE and because I live in a [edit] Little Englander safe seat, for the first time ever, I will spoil my vote. I’d rather count as an expression of dissatisfaction than I would contribute to the Lib Dem’s non-meaningful popular vote share.

[Slant]

I seriously doubt there will be another extention. Whatever scenario you cook up, it's probably most realistic in a non-extension situation. Juncker's last day is 31st of October. They didn't pick that date randomly. He wants to finish it in in his term. They want a fresh start with the new term. Either it's with the UK having a deal and outside, or the UK without a deal and outside. But what the EU doesn't seem to want is to begin another term of the Commission that's dominated by a country that is so disorganised, it's becoming a global spectacle.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...o-deal-brexit/

The Council today adopted contingency measures on the implementation and financing of the 2019 EU budget in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

The aim of the measures is to mitigate the impact of a no-deal scenario for funding in a wide range of areas such as research and agriculture.

They will enable the EU to continue making payments to UK beneficiaries for contracts signed and decisions made before the withdrawal date, as long as the UK continues paying its contribution agreed in the EU budget for 2019.

The EU is considering no-deal certain enough to adopt action on it already. They haven't done this the last time around. We're begining bracing procedures. I suggest you do the same.

And just because I'd like to stick it to anyone saying Germany is running the EU... if we were, we wouldn't do it like this:



Notice that white bit in the middle not getting near as much investments as the surrounding bits? That's Germany. For realsies. Pick a map of Europe and compare. It's amazing how we are supposed to run this show and don't give ourselves the money.

[LeGin Tufnel]

I seriously doubt there will be another extention. Whatever scenario you cook up, it's probably most realistic in a non-extension situation.

Yes, this is what I would assume too.

Instead of using this extra time to gain consensus in parliament, the Conservatives have chosen to replace their leader. As a consequence the most likely outcomes are now no deal or revoke. Both of which will foment civil unrest.

[Kallisto]

There was this case a decade or so ago in Greece were someone slipped something really greasy in his envelope and into the ballot which slowly just oiled up half the ballot and spoiled all those votes.

Please don't tell me it was Olive oil, that would be blasphemous waste of good olive oil.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Most likely some form of cured meat.

This is inspiring.

I will sabotage some Little Englander votes with a couple of slices of Genoa salami.

[Northern Goblin]

Anyone see the Panorama documentary last night?

I'm not sure what's more horrific, the treatment of Jewish Labour party members, staff being driven to breakdowns and contemplating suicide, or the deflect, derail and denial campaign the Labour Party began before the episode aired.

[Kallisto]

Anyone see the Panorama documentary last night?

I'm not sure what's more horrific, the treatment of Jewish Labour party members, staff being driven to breakdowns and contemplating suicide, or the deflect, derail and denial campaign the Labour Party began before the episode aired.

All of the above.

The fact this could win the election that may come up next to the conservatives

The fact that Sir Dupesalot will come in and scream "NO EVIDENCE NO EVIDENCE NO EVIDENCE!"

[Slant]

Oh, you thought I'd forgotten this?

Let's look at this weeks comedy show... oh look, two PM candidates being clowns on public television!



I like how Boris just... pretends the EU would agree to anything he says, because he claims it's in the EU's "best interest". He hasn't followed the negotiations at all, has he? The EU knows very well what's in its interest, and it's quite capable of putting that into action. Much better than the UK at this point, in fact. I like the interviewer's incredulity at the comical situation. He knows the trainwreck he's interviewing...

[Acidbaron]

Oh, you thought I'd forgotten this?

Let's look at this weeks comedy show... oh look, two PM candidates being clowns on public television!



I like how Boris just... pretends the EU would agree to anything he says, because he claims it's in the EU's "best interest". He hasn't followed the negotiations at all, has he? The EU knows very well what's in its interest, and it's quite capable of putting that into action. Much better than the UK at this point, in fact. I like the interviewer's incredulity at the comical situation. He knows the trainwreck he's interviewing...

Boris is talking to his base when he says such things, same like all of them before they are still stuck in catering to his base boris like trump is a con man who's only interest is to obtain the highest possible office to screw over his own nation for the sake of personal gain and validation because they are weak insecure men, hence their history with abuse towards women.

Businesses now have had more time to prepare to leave the UK permanently, EU nations have now had more time to prepare for a hard brexit and so it's time for the EU to pull the plug and let that island really become something on their own, even if that something means, weak, isolated and easy to be preyed on by global players.

[Vankrys]

I like how Boris just... pretends the EU would agree to anything he says, because he claims it's in the EU's "best interest". He hasn't followed the negotiations at all, has he? The EU knows very well what's in its interest, and it's quite capable of putting that into action. Much better than the UK at this point, in fact. I like the interviewer's incredulity at the comical situation. He knows the trainwreck he's interviewing...

But of course it's gonna work. Because, if the EU doesn't yield to UK's demands, Boris will send the royal navy to blockade EU ports and shelling EU coastal cities until the EU caves.
What? That strategy did work fine in the past centuries.

[Slant]

Boris is talking to his base when he says such things, same like all of them before they are still stuck in catering to his base boris like trump is a con man who's only interest is to obtain the highest possible office to screw over his own nation for the sake of personal gain and validation because they are weak insecure men, hence their history with abuse towards women.

Businesses now have had more time to prepare to leave the UK permanently, EU nations have now had more time to prepare for a hard brexit and so it's time for the EU to pull the plug and let that island really become something on their own, even if that something means, weak, isolated and easy to be preyed on by global players.

At least they're so nice and let us have first dibs at the preying. I vote we show no mercy and get everything we want. I'm done playing nice. Let them have the full third country experience. See what Boris thinks about that.

[Acidbaron]

At least they're so nice and let us have first dibs at the preying. I vote we show no mercy and get everything we want. I'm done playing nice. Let them have the full third country experience. See what Boris thinks about that.

Further play the blame game, create even more an enemy of the EU. Do what every good undemocratic populist does, and so capitalize on it further build out base.

With enough influence start pushing things through like privatizing the NHS, take a nice big pay check from the insurance companies let the country go further down the hill, continue blaming outside forces for everything still have enough of a base and eventually retire to somewhere outside of the UK.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

At least they're so nice and let us have first dibs at the preying. I vote we show no mercy and get everything we want. I'm done playing nice. Let them have the full third country experience. See what Boris thinks about that.

I still think that the EU will most likely, when the UK comes asking for a trade deal, hand them a strangely familiar 599 page document with the words "Withdrawal Agreement" tippexed out, and replaced with "Precursory Agreement to Trade Negotiations". Which the UK will sign, because they have to.

[Slant]

I still think that the EU will most likely, when the UK comes asking for a trade deal, hand them a strangely familiar 599 page document with the words "Withdrawal Agreement" tippexed out, and replaced with "Precursory Agreement to Trade Negotiations". Which the UK will sign, because they have to.

Well, that is a given. EU officials, starting from Junckers going down to middle-level civil servants have repeatedly said if the UK crashes out without a deal and then asks for trade negotiations, the WA would make a comeback. The 39bn and the backstop/any other actual solution to the "Irish Problem" would be preconditions before trade talks begin.

But that hasn't permeated through the collective UK understanding, yet. So, the EU will keep on saying their mantra and people on reddit will continue to wonder why the EU keeps saying the same thing over and over again.