View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18461
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And the original wasn't too? How do you know? Or are you assuming because?
    I think his point was, that it is telling that your sort is willing to decontextualize a picture to pretend your narrative is even close to correct.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...sales-15596141

  2. #18462
    I see people still take The Dribbling Joke as a serious poster.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Separate issue but doesn’t everyone find ignore a complete waste of time? You’d have to be permanently signed in. Half the time I browse, I’m not signed in.
    I'm always signed in, but I find putting people on ignore kinda pathetic, personally.

  3. #18463
    Quote Originally Posted by rathwathar View Post
    Disgusting as that poster is, it isn't really much to do with Brexit.

    First, Farage was completely sidelined during the Brexit campaign, to the extent that when one of the networks allowed him to speak in a debate for Leave the official leave campaign protested. Even Brexiteers mostly viewed him as an embarrassment.

    Second, the campaign didn't really focus on racism, it did mention immigration but it was very subtle by right-wing standards. It was dishonest, "350 million for the US" etc, but mostly focused on economics and sovereignity.

    Third I do question how much remainers are less racist than their right-wing counterparts. They might not want to close the borders, but I do wonder how much of that is down to the fact that it keeps the price of their m&s strawberries down when they are picked by Polish laborers on a pound an hour sleeping 12 to a room. Their interest in the subject seems to wane when you talk about things like exploitation of foreign workers where doing something about it isn't in their direct economic interest.

    Additionally, no one seemed to give a shit about our friends in the commonwealth - which virtually stopped while EU migration was thriving. I do believe we have a duty to those people after our ancestors messed up their countries.
    So your theory is that not only are the Brexit supporters racist and full of hatred, but so are the Remain supporters. Are people in the UK that bad off these days? Before Brexit, I was under the impression that the UK was doing fairly well. But this complete and total trashing of UK citizens, combined with May's recent speech and the comments to it, has me thinking otherwise.

  4. #18464
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh the racism card, I never saw that one coming, you are reflecting upon the colour of their skin? Ok, not being racist, I hadn't noticed that bit, telling that you did though. Is there something you have to admit to us?

    On reflection perhaps it would have been better to have used a picture like this to refer to uncontrolled immigration because of the EU. The message would have been the same and just as effective without handing ammunition to remainers who have a problem with brown people.
    Where do you get this fantasy that after Brexit there'll be less immigration?

    Are you telling me that after Brexit your corporations suddenly aren't going to be in need of cheap labor anymore to reach their goal of maximized profits?

    Are you trying to argue that the EU is so altruistic that it would allow immigration to happen even if it would harm the corporations and businesses that keep shoving money in the pockets of politicians? Why would you think so highly of the EU?
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
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  5. #18465
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I'm always signed in, but I find putting people on ignore kinda pathetic, personally.
    Honestly I only put someone on ignore if I believe that seeing their posts all the time may lead me to get infracted.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  6. #18466
    Dreadlord Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Yeah, further can-kicking until the end of October, when the EU will grant the UK another 6 month extension.
    I know I've said it before but I don't think the EU will give another extension if this time there's no progress. Because at that point the EU will also realise that the UK is just acting in bad faith.

  7. #18467
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    the fog seems to lift and the charade of May's Brexit 2.0 should fail soon: Labour demands second ref or forget it

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...a-peoples-vote

    Jeremy Corbyn will not be able to get enough of his MPs to back a Brexit deal without the promise of a second referendum, even if Theresa May makes a big offer on a customs union and workers’ rights this week, senior Labour figures believe.
    Senior party sources said they believe two-thirds of Labour MPs, including several shadow cabinet ministers and many more frontbenchers, would refuse to back a deal without a people’s vote attached.


    this should explode nicely in the cross-party-talks ....

  8. #18468
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I know I've said it before but I don't think the EU will give another extension if this time there's no progress. Because at that point the EU will also realise that the UK is just acting in bad faith.
    I don't think that's the case.

    The longer the can keeps getting kicked down the road, the more likely it is that Brexit will never happen. The Brexiter talking heads know this, which is why they howl like wounded animals every time this happens.

    Every passing week, more geriatric voters die and more young voters reach voting age. The original result was tight; with buyer's remorse kicking in and the slow effect of demographic changes due to aging at both ends of the scale, every passing week makes it more likely that Brexit will be cancelled if there is every another referendum.

    I think it's just a matter of time at this point. If we were going to leave, we'd have done so already. Now the EU just needs to be patient and let inevitability take its course.

  9. #18469
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    I don't think that's the case.

    The longer the can keeps getting kicked down the road, the more likely it is that Brexit will never happen. The Brexiter talking heads know this, which is why they howl like wounded animals every time this happens.

    Every passing week, more geriatric voters die and more young voters reach voting age. The original result was tight; with buyer's remorse kicking in and the slow effect of demographic changes due to aging at both ends of the scale, every passing week makes it more likely that Brexit will be cancelled if there is every another referendum.

    I think it's just a matter of time at this point. If we were going to leave, we'd have done so already. Now the EU just needs to be patient and let inevitability take its course.
    Yeah, every day that passes without the UK leaving the EU makes it less likely to happen. The EU knows this and it is why they give the UK more time, again and again.

    Now that Labour is basically saying "no referendum, no deal. As you witnessed last month when Letwin-Cooper passed, Prime Minister: No deal, no Brexit" it really is nailing Brexit's coffin together (Brexit isn't in the coffin yet, but it's getting close). Right now, Brexit is on life-support. Unless a miracle happens (and no, the Brexit Party taking UKIP's 26% in the European Elections isn't a miracle) it won't survive.

    There is no majority in the House for leaving without a deal. There is no majority for leaving with May's Deal (the only one on the table) either. There are quite a few MPs that don't want to leave the EU too. The only thing they have in common, is that whatever is happening, none of them are happy about it.

    If (and this is a big if) May and Corbyn can push the WA with a legally binding customs union tacked on to it through Parliament, then that would mean the EU would have to agree on the new text, it would mean new negotiations and at the end of the negotiations another vote in the Commons to ratify the treaty if it wasn't adopted as-is.

    May's Deal + CU + citizens' rights could pass and be acceptable to the EU. But I don't see it happening this year (the Commons have something like 8 weeks of holiday between now and October), and passng it would likely split both Labour and the Conservatives.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-05-05 at 10:59 PM.

  10. #18470
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Is that Ally Pally?
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  11. #18471
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Yeah, every day that passes without the UK leaving the EU makes it less likely to happen. The EU knows this and it is why they give the UK more time, again and again.

    Now that Labour is basically saying "no referendum, no deal. As you witnessed last month when Letwin-Cooper passed, Prime Minister: No deal, no Brexit" it really is nailing Brexit's coffin together (Brexit isn't in the coffin yet, but it's getting close). Right now, Brexit is on life-support. Unless a miracle happens (and no, the Brexit Party taking UKIP's 26% in the European Elections isn't a miracle) it won't survive.

    There is no majority in the House for leaving without a deal. There is no majority for leaving with May's Deal (the only one on the table) either. There are quite a few MPs that don't want to leave the EU too. The only thing they have in common, is that whatever is happening, none of them are happy about it.

    If (and this is a big if) May and Corbyn can push the WA with a legally binding customs union tacked on to it through Parliament, then that would mean the EU would have to agree on the new text, it would mean new negotiations and at the end of the negotiations another vote in the Commons to ratify the treaty if it wasn't adopted as-is.

    May's Deal + CU + citizens' rights could pass and be acceptable to the EU. But I don't see it happening this year (the Commons have something like 8 weeks of holiday between now and October), and passng it would likely split both Labour and the Conservatives.
    Not to rain on your parade here, but there's a detail wrong. The customs union? Not part of leaving. It's part of a new arrangement. The EU won't touch the customs union (or any other "new arrangement" deal) until the UK is out of the EU. I'm not even surprised that that detail still hasn't actually been understood. Whatever May and Corbyn are cooking up, it is on a premise that doesn't exist. It is another unicorn. An ugly one, too.

    So no, the EU won't do new negotiations. Not through the backdoor like this. But... this won't enter their thick skulls until the EU reminds them of what they said 2 years ago. And then they'll be all shocked and surprised that the EU actually meant it and blame Brussels once more, because that's how it's always been.
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  12. #18472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Not to rain on your parade here, but there's a detail wrong. The customs union? Not part of leaving. It's part of a new arrangement. The EU won't touch the customs union (or any other "new arrangement" deal) until the UK is out of the EU. I'm not even surprised that that detail still hasn't actually been understood. Whatever May and Corbyn are cooking up, it is on a premise that doesn't exist. It is another unicorn. An ugly one, too.

    So no, the EU won't do new negotiations. Not through the backdoor like this. But... this won't enter their thick skulls until the EU reminds them of what they said 2 years ago. And then they'll be all shocked and surprised that the EU actually meant it and blame Brussels once more, because that's how it's always been.
    Where would the difficulty in a custom union be though

    Take the norway deal as a document, seach and replace norway with united kingdom, hit print, done

    Sure it gives a lot of bonus deals

    But they would get all that and not be in the EU, is that not what they want?

  13. #18473
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    Take the norway deal as a document, seach and replace norway with united kingdom, hit print, done
    So you think the brexit idiots are interested in joining the Schengen Area? Because that search&replace deal would require that.

    Furthermore, the UK joining the EFTA would require the consent of the current members of the EFTA (Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, and Iceland). And Norway in particular isn't interested.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  14. #18474
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    So you think the brexit idiots are interested in joining the Schengen Area? Because that search&replace deal would require that.

    Furthermore, the UK joining the EFTA would require the consent of the current members of the EFTA (Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein, and Iceland). And Norway in particular isn't interested.
    I suddenly like Heidi Nordby Lunde a bit more now.

  15. #18475
    Quote Originally Posted by Riversong View Post
    Haha it's like she knows how childish the Brexit politicians are and doesn't want that headache, good on her also its lovely over here in Norway atm.
    It's mostly that the UK's economy would completely crowd out the rest of the members of the EFTA when it comes to lobbying the EU for trade policies. They do not want the competition.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  16. #18476
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    Where would the difficulty in a custom union be though

    Take the norway deal as a document, seach and replace norway with united kingdom, hit print, done

    Sure it gives a lot of bonus deals

    But they would get all that and not be in the EU, is that not what they want?
    There is no difficulty in a customs union on the side of the EU. However, the EU is well aware of the UK a) not knowing what they're doing, b) procastrinating the fuck out of this shitshow because of the previous point, and c) absolutely willing to abuse the goodwill of the EU for their own egoistical gain, going as far as destroying the EU if they could do it in the process.

    So yes, the EU would do wise to handle this as they have done so far, in an orderly fashion. First they get out, then we'll see what the situation is and what can be salvaged and then the UK can request a new arrangement, like any other third country would.

    Also, a customs union would immediately put any dreams of negotiating trade deals on their own into a deep grave. Despite what they probably believe right now, the UK cannot join the customs union and just go ahead and make trade deals on their own with whoever they want in whatever fashion they want.

    If that's done. What the hell was the point of Brexit in the first place? They always had control over their border, they are already in the customs union, they got to keep their precious money... so really Brexit is just about the UK giving up its vote in the most dramatic fashion conceivable, just to spite the EU?

    "I DETEST THESE PROCEEDINGS! I SHALL NOW LAY DOWN MY VOTE AND NEVER AGREE OR DISAGREE TO ANYTHING. Please let us stay, we dig your rules and want to continue being a member of everything, just really... it's the voting, it breaks our brains. We just can't do it."

    Is that it? :P
    Last edited by Slant; 2019-05-06 at 09:15 AM.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  17. #18477
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...KCN1SC0OK?il=0

    So now May is realising that the People's Vote may not be avoidable after all.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  18. #18478
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...KCN1SC0OK?il=0

    So now May is realising that the People's Vote may not be avoidable after all.
    I'm not going to get my hopes up. They'll fuck it up somehow. Half-arse the campaign again or something... or not campaign in it at all, because that would mean taking a position. Imagine a Remain campaign that had no official backing other than the SNP and Libdems... And Tories and Labor both going "we'll see who wins first..."
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  19. #18479
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I'm not going to get my hopes up. They'll fuck it up somehow. Half-arse the campaign again or something... or not campaign in it at all, because that would mean taking a position. Imagine a Remain campaign that had no official backing other than the SNP and Libdems... And Tories and Labor both going "we'll see who wins first..."
    I'd just feel greater moral clarity in not giving a shit about what happens to the UK after.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #18480
    She's just stating the obvious in the knowledge that it will apply pressure to Leave-inclined waiverers on both sides to get behind her deal.

    I’m sure this is going to be the outcome: her deal (with token / fudgey amendments, stuff that can be unpicked in the future) will pass with Labour support.

    All we’re seeing is a desperate attempt by her and Corbyn to keep their parties intact, maintaining the two party system that is breaking this country. Corbyn thinks he can beat her but he can't and we'll just end up with endless Tory governments outside of the EU.

    Cheery, cheery.

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