View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18541
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Who are the two big parties in your constituency? Or are you in a safe seat?
    It's a Tory safe seat. Literally, there is no point me voting other than to boost the popular vote of x party, which I'm not going to do anymore. I will now be spoiling my vote in GEs until we get a form of PR. And not AV or AV+. Proper PR. STV or Additional Member System or Party List - I'd accept either.

  2. #18542
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    It's a Tory safe seat. Literally, there is no point me voting other than to boost the popular vote of x party, which I'm not going to do anymore. I will now be spoiling my vote in GEs until we get a form of PR. And not AV or AV+. Proper PR. STV or Additional Member System or Party List - I'd accept either.
    Yeah thinking about doing the same. Where I live both before and after the border changes 2010 has been super safe Tory. Except the two Blair landslides it's been Tory or Tory allied party since 1930s. Although if there's a hint of a chance though I'll be voting for whoever has that chance. Labour, LD, Change, Whoever (not UKIP, Brexit Party or BNP types) they'll get my vote if it means getting rid of ERG member MP.

    I still go by the AV/AV+ vote was a trap by the Tories to shut up LD on reform during the coalition knowing that voters could tell it wasn't really a change and got them to stay home while saying "See people don't want reform.".

  3. #18543
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    I still go by the AV/AV+ vote was a trap by the Tories to shut up LD on reform during the coalition knowing that voters could tell it wasn't really a change and got them to stay home while saying "See people don't want reform.".
    Yep, absolutely. I was always surprised the Lib Dems agreed to it.

    I mean - I voted for AV on the basis that "at least it was a step in the right direction". In retrospect, I wonder if that was a mistake.

  4. #18544
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Yea it would be great, shame ChangeUK decided to shit all over this idea
    The Lib Dems and Greens are not exactly blameless either - the Lib Dems choosing to pre-submit all their candidates for all regions before even raising the issue of working with other remain parties especially.

  5. #18545
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    It will be interesting to see how Labour's non-committal commitment to a 2nd ref affects the polls in the coming days. Social media is, as always, going mental but so far they seem to have weathered the storm much better than the Tories and this may well turn out to be a shrewd move as remain voters don't appear to be convinced that parties like the Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK are the answer whereas leavers seem to be embracing the Brexit party in large numbers.
    I've been saying this for some time. I don't like all the political games, but the fact is that Corbyn and Labour have managed to tread that line of somehow keeping all of their supporters satisfied WAY better than the Tories have. And if you look at what's happening to the Tories, you can see what could have happened to Labour (and indeed still could) if they get it wrong.

    It's a dangerous and narrow line to walk, but they've managed it so far.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  6. #18546
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    The Lib Dems and Greens are not exactly blameless either - the Lib Dems choosing to pre-submit all their candidates for all regions before even raising the issue of working with other remain parties especially.
    Fair I suppose. Been poking round and found this. New politics indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leaked Change UK memo on "Cooperation Strategy with the Lib Dems"
    Objectives

    Single party, brand, entity and leadership team for progressive politics at the next General Election including all progressive traditions (centre-left, One Nation and Liberal).

    No mergers, pacts or alliances.

    Strategy

    1. Win over LD activist and members to the TIG/NP cause – to win over as supporters;
    2. Attract support and resources from LD backers – to win over and help provide resources.

    Tactics

    1. Grow TIG so HoC numbers exceed LDs
    2. Illustrate TIG exceeds the support base of the LD
    a. Grow supporter list to byond 100,000 (current number of LD members)
    b. Grow twitter followers beyond 244,00 (LDs currently on 244,100).

    3. Connect with key LD backers
    a. Approach top 6 individually by May
    b. Secure public support of previous LD backers

    4. Show bona fides on key LD issues
    a. Interventions on Electoral Reform
    i. Westminster Hall or Adjornment debate led by a TIG member
    ii.Op-Ed on a LD online platform
    iii TIG EDM
    b. Highlight interventions of TIG members on civil liberties issues
    i. Example – Shaminma Begum

    5. Advertise public pledges of support by LD members/activists
    a. Highlight any LD councillors supporting TIG/NP
    b. Draw attention to any ex-LD PPCs joining TIG/NP
    c. Encourage LD public figures to advocate transferring to TIG/NP

    6. Where appropriate, TIG and LD MPs to co-operate publicly on certain issues
    a. Brexit – CU/AS/GS fortnightly working group?
    b. Mental Health – LB and NL etc

  7. #18547
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    the fact is that Corbyn and Labour have managed to tread that line of saying absolutely nothing with meaning and getting away with it until now.
    Fixed that for you Labour at this point deserve the response they will get in the EU elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    New politics indeed.
    Depends if you think the Lib Dem's have a future in UK politics, I guess - for that to happen people need to start getting over the coalition government and tuition fees.

    Sad but true
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-04-30 at 09:31 PM.

  8. #18548
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Sad but true
    Yep. At the moment, 2nd ref is not in a particularly happy place.

  9. #18549
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Fixed that for you Labour at this point deserve the response they will get in the EU elections.


    Depends if you think the Lib Dem's have a future in UK politics, I guess - for that to happen people need to start getting over the coalition government and tuition fees.


    Sad but true
    Labour have been more than consistent with their message over decades.

    Here's Tony in 1983.



    And here's Labour again before the referendum in 2016



    And now how many times has Corbyn got to hint at it? Remainers have the option of voting Greens or Lib Dems. How they doing in election polls btw, any good? Perhaps people still just want to leave? Everyone all set for the Peterborough by election that we find out if it's happening tomorrow? I hear our Nigel might be fielding a candidate for his first Brexit party MP if it does...

  10. #18550
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    I've been saying this for some time. I don't like all the political games, but the fact is that Corbyn and Labour have managed to tread that line of somehow keeping all of their supporters satisfied WAY better than the Tories have. And if you look at what's happening to the Tories, you can see what could have happened to Labour (and indeed still could) if they get it wrong.

    It's a dangerous and narrow line to walk, but they've managed it so far.
    And it has achieved nothing for the nation, too. So it's a pretty good policy, as far as British politics go, innit?
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.

  11. #18551
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    interesting times ahead in next week; will they just "agree to disagree" or what will come around ?

    source

    "Theresa May has set a one-week deadline for cross-party Brexit talks to make progress or be brought “towards a conclusion”, with a crunch meeting likely to be scheduled with key players early next week.
    Downing Street believes the middle of next week is the deadline by which the negotiations must show progress, if they are to have a hope of passing the withdrawal agreement and implementation bill (WAB), in time to prevent the European elections.

  12. #18552
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And now how many times has Corbyn got to hint at it?
    For once, we agree with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    interesting times ahead in next week; will they just "agree to disagree" or what will come around ?
    With that pathetic EU election manifesto, Corbyn has established his position as "If May amends her deal (in a currently unspecified way that is acceptable to me) Labour will back her deal", so there's every chance that next week will see him lining up with May to try and deliver a Tory Brexit, over the wishes of his voters/MPs/MEPs.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-04-30 at 11:14 PM.

  13. #18553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    ....


    With that pathetic EU election manifesto, Corbyn has established his position as "If May amends her deal (in a currently unspecified way that is acceptable to me) Labour will back her deal", so there's every chance that next week will see him lining up with May to try and deliver a Tory Brexit, over the wishes of his voters/MPs/MEPs.
    for sure he could try, but will enough MPs fall in line or gladly revolt against their glorious leader ?

  14. #18554
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    No, I said they had nothing to offer in the EP election.

    - - - Updated - - -

    He's not suggesting that the EP election is anything other than a single issue election is he?

    Fuck me, really?

    Please explain why anyone would possibly vote for Labour in the forthcoming EP elections other than out of partisanship and tribalism.
    To represent workers interest in Europe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post

    No doubt burner will be back to tell me he doesn't actually want my vote.
    I am not actually the Labour party. I'm not even a member.

    Vote how you wish. However, if you expect any prospect of a more centrist Labour party in the future then you need to understand the left of the party is not very likely to go along with it, as it did in the Blair years, against a historical backdrop of backstabbing and desertion by the middle class when things didn't go their way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post

    With that pathetic EU election manifesto
    Once again, Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the Labour Party. The Labour party is meant to represent the interests of labour. Not your hostility to Brexit.

    Corbyn's views accurately represent the view of workers on this issue, whether you or I like it or not.

    If you do not support the interests of workers, and place a higher priority on a binary anti-brexit position, then you should support another party, as you seem to be doing. However, you shouldn't express any surprise that the Labour party does not reflect your personal views.

    I just mention this because people like you seem to have enormous difficulty understanding what the point of Labour is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    for sure he could try, but will enough MPs fall in line or gladly revolt against their glorious leader ?
    They've been bitching, pissing and moaning about him for years, what would you call a "revolt"?

  15. #18555
    Quote Originally Posted by cathwath View Post
    To represent workers interest in Europe.
    That would be the first labour oriented party in Europe actually doing something for workers in the past 50 years, I reckon. But you keep on believing...
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.

  16. #18556
    Quote Originally Posted by cathwath View Post
    Once again, Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the Labour Party. The Labour party is meant to represent the interests of labour. Not your hostility to Brexit.

    Corbyn's views accurately represent the view of workers on this issue, whether you or I like it or not.
    Still waiting for you to explain how Labour helping to deliver a right wing Tory wet dream project is in the interests of workers.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-01 at 06:56 AM.

  17. #18557
    Quote Originally Posted by cathwath View Post
    To represent workers interest in Europe.
    See @Dizzeeyooo's response above.

    The UK is, in theory, leaving the EU by the 31/10/19 at the latest.

    More likely, the UK will leave before May's self-imposed 30/06/19 deadline. I'm guessing as a result of MV4 passing with Labour support.

    This election is not about what Labour MEPs can accomplish in Europe as part of S&D for workers' rights. You are either deluding yourself or you are being entirely disingenuous.

  18. #18558
    Quote Originally Posted by cathwath View Post
    If you do not support the interests of workers, and place a higher priority on a binary anti-brexit position, then you should support another party, as you seem to be doing. However, you shouldn't express any surprise that the Labour party does not reflect your personal views.
    And if you support the rights and interests of workers, and believe that these will be harmed significantly by leaving the EU, opening the way to US-style "at-will" employment contracts and the expansion of zero-hour contracts to formerly salaried positions, the sale of the NHS to private companies at a devalued cost which will lead to higher costs for those seeking healthcare (like they did with the Royal Mail a few years ago and the train network 20-odd years ago) and the sacrifice of the social security safety net to reduce corporation tax and a lowered tax-bill for the rich? Who should you vote for then?

  19. #18559
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    And if you support the rights and interests of workers, and believe that these will be harmed significantly by leaving the EU, opening the way to US-style "at-will" employment contracts and the expansion of zero-hour contracts to formerly salaried positions, the sale of the NHS to private companies at a devalued cost which will lead to higher costs for those seeking healthcare (like they did with the Royal Mail a few years ago and the train network 20-odd years ago) and the sacrifice of the social security safety net to reduce corporation tax and a lowered tax-bill for the rich? Who should you vote for then?
    How does leaving automatically opens way to US-style working conditions?

    Don't you need to have appropriate legislation passed first?

  20. #18560
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathwath View Post

    They've been bitching, pissing and moaning about him for years, what would you call a "revolt"?
    as MPs they can vote his deal with May down. it is also a speculation even Labour support cannot offset the nays by Conservatives, so it would still fail.

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