View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18581
    https://twitter.com/DavidHeadViews/s...48807038844934

    Liam Fox tells @BBCr4today that he is off to Washington DC for #Brexit-related talks with (wait for it) Ivanka. And you thought things couldn't get any worse.

    01:36 - 8. Juli 2019
    Apparently, Ivanka is handling Brexit stuff for the USA now. I don't even know what to say...
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  2. #18582

  3. #18583
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    And they don't win a GE in the meantime.

    Still sticking to his caveats.


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  4. #18584
    Britain Elects have released the latest Yougov Westminster voting intention poll results. In the scenario where Johnson is PM and GE is called before Brexit the Cons would be equal with the LDs on 23% of the vote this jumps to 28% for the Cons if the election was held after Brexit, weirdly 14% would still vote the BXP in this scenario.

    In both scenarios Lab would only receive 17% of the vote - will Corbyn's support of remain in the event of a 2nd ref. be enough to reverse Lab's fortunes or will it be too little, too late? Or worse will this alienate leave Lab voters?

    It will be interesting to see the next the Yougov Westminster poll to see what difference Lab's new policy and tonight's Con leadership debate make.

    Whilst all polls are somewhat all over the place they all show that neither the Cons or Lab would be likely to form a majority in the event of a GE - has the two party stranglehold finally been broken? Or will it all return to normal post Brexit?

    https://mailchi.mp/f7643146f4aa/bori...-poll-suggests

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    And they don't win a GE in the meantime.

    Still sticking to his caveats.
    They haven't said what would happen in the event of an early GE so I can only assume that they would stick with the rumoured plan of somehow negotiating a better deal with the EU than the Tories and then campaigning against it in a ref.

    Still at least Lab supporters can take heart that no doubt Hunt or Johnson will say something more bonkers in tonight's leadership debate. Perhaps one of them will suggest that post Brexit the upper class will be able to use packs of dogs to chase EU officials around the countryside whilst they follow on horse back, all dressed in red.

  5. #18585
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Perhaps one of them will suggest that post Brexit the upper class will be able to use packs of dogs to chase EU officials around the countryside whilst they follow on horse back, all dressed in red.
    IIRC, Hunt has actually mentioned that he'd try to get the ban on fox hunting reversed (what a garbage thing to do!) so he could very well do something along the lines of what you suggest, just perhaps not with EU officials lol

  6. #18586
    Quote Originally Posted by pswathal View Post
    I'm not sure what your issue is with that. Ivanka is politically liberal and relatively intelligent. It makes sense for one of a few relatively reasonable to conduct negotiations-I can't honestly think of a better candidate that could represent Trump.
    The sad truth is, you say this unironically... and that makes it even more sad, because it's true.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  7. #18587
    Quote Originally Posted by pswathal View Post
    I'm not sure what your issue is with that. Ivanka is politically liberal and relatively intelligent. It makes sense for one of a few relatively reasonable to conduct negotiations-I can't honestly think of a better candidate that could represent Trump.
    I'd prefer someone actually qualified.

  8. #18588
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    IIRC, Hunt has actually mentioned that he'd try to get the ban on fox hunting reversed (what a garbage thing to do!) so he could very well do something along the lines of what you suggest, just perhaps not with EU officials lol
    Hmm, a leaked internal Tory memo suggests that using EU officials would be popular with Green voters, who would rather that Basil Brush was not torn apart by some toffs' dogs, as well as BXP voters, who aren't too fussed about dogs tearing things apart.

    I should add that the dogs would not be allowed to tear apart actual EU officials, only chase them, and when the toffs eventually catch them, they will hand over piece of EU legislation that will then ceremoniously be torn to shreds by a braying mob of Nigel Farage supporters.
    Last edited by Pann; 2019-07-09 at 01:22 PM.

  9. #18589
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Corbyn needs to go asap for us to stand any chance, his reversal means nothing to me. Voting Lib Dem next election.

  10. #18590
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    One wonders just how uncomfortable bottoming out on a fencepost for that long actually is, but hey. Finally.
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  11. #18591
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Corbyn needs to go asap for us to stand any chance, his reversal means nothing to me. Voting Lib Dem next election.
    I could see this being a reasonable position if Brexit is absolutely the only thing you care about.

    As far as I can tell LibDem policy is just as thin on substance as BXP's; as long as we avoid Brexit everything will be fine.

    That's clearly fucking nonsense.

    Last time the Lib Dems were presented with a power vs policy/principal decision they decided to prop up a Tory government without a second d thought. What makes you sure they won't do the same again?

  12. #18592
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    I could see this being a reasonable position if Brexit is absolutely the only thing you care about.

    As far as I can tell LibDem policy is just as thin on substance as BXP's; as long as we avoid Brexit everything will be fine.

    That's clearly fucking nonsense.

    Last time the Lib Dems were presented with a power vs policy/principal decision they decided to prop up a Tory government without a second d thought. What makes you sure they won't do the same again?
    Its not just that, in my constituency labour got 8% of the vote so I'll tactically vote for lib dems as well. I have thrown my vote away by voting Labour before knowing the candidate wouldn't win but I didn't want to support lib dems after they went with the tories.

  13. #18593
    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    Last time the Lib Dems were presented with a power vs policy/principal decision they decided to prop up a Tory government without a second d thought. What makes you sure they won't do the same again?
    For one they would want an implosion of votes.

    Secondly with how things are going they'd have higher percentage of MPs.

    Thirdly look at coalition and post coalition governments and tell me the tories didn't get more stupud, insane and borderline evil in the post coalition era showing that the LDs held them back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Britain Elects have released the latest Yougov Westminster voting intention poll results. In the scenario where Johnson is PM and GE is called before Brexit the Cons would be equal with the LDs on 23% of the vote this jumps to 28% for the Cons if the election was held after Brexit, weirdly 14% would still vote the BXP in this scenario.

    In both scenarios Lab would only receive 17% of the vote - will Corbyn's support of remain in the event of a 2nd ref. be enough to reverse Lab's fortunes or will it be too little, too late? Or worse will this alienate leave Lab voters?

    It will be interesting to see the next the Yougov Westminster poll to see what difference Lab's new policy and tonight's Con leadership debate make.

    Whilst all polls are somewhat all over the place they all show that neither the Cons or Lab would be likely to form a majority in the event of a GE - has the two party stranglehold finally been broken? Or will it all return to normal post Brexit?

    https://mailchi.mp/f7643146f4aa/bori...-poll-suggests

    - - - Updated - - -



    They haven't said what would happen in the event of an early GE so I can only assume that they would stick with the rumoured plan of somehow negotiating a better deal with the EU than the Tories and then campaigning against it in a ref.

    Still at least Lab supporters can take heart that no doubt Hunt or Johnson will say something more bonkers in tonight's leadership debate. Perhaps one of them will suggest that post Brexit the upper class will be able to use packs of dogs to chase EU officials around the countryside whilst they follow on horse back, all dressed in red.
    On phone so hard to delete the non relevant parts but while we have FPTP any druft away from two party politics us temporary at best. Only question is will it return to cons/lab or will brexit party or LD replace either of them

  14. #18594
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Its not just that, in my constituency labour got 8% of the vote so I'll tactically vote for lib dems as well. I have thrown my vote away by voting Labour before knowing the candidate wouldn't win but I didn't want to support lib dems after they went with the tories.
    I mean, I live ina constituency that has been a Conservative held position for all but 1 year since 1868 (before that there was more than one MP for this constiuency). I get the wasted vote feeling, for me, it's not worth voting for something I hate to prevent something I hate slightly less when I know it isn't going to make a difference anyway. I'd rather just not bother.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But because of FPTP it has nothing to do with policy, it has to do with your best chance to keep the Tories and BXP out and that may likely be Lib Dem in many constituencies, no?
    Im kind of sick of us having to accept this stupid FPTP shit. The more we argue about how to game a stupid system the longer that system will sustain itself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    For one they would want an implosion of votes.

    Secondly with how things are going they'd have higher percentage of MPs.

    Thirdly look at coalition and post coalition governments and tell me the tories didn't get more stupud, insane and borderline evil in the post coalition era showing that the LDs held them back.

    - - - Updated - - -
    - Didn't make a difference last time.

    - They'd still remain the minority partner in any coalition.

    - Just because what came after was worse, doesn't mean the coalition was anything but a total shit show.

  15. #18595
    I’m glad that the other unions have brought pressure to bear on McCluskey / Unite & Corbyn. But I’m not sure exactly what it is that people think will change.

    Assuming that a) BJ doesn’t find a way of bypassing parliament and forcing a no deal through and b) the EU grant another extension, the outcome of a snap GE with Brexit as the central issue is going to be either a Tory / BXP coalition or a Lab-dominated rainbow coalition.

    As a remainer the hope would be that a) Tory rebels bring down the government, b) the EU grants an extension to accommodate a snap election, c) a Lab-rainbow coalition take government, d) EU refuse to renegotiate with Corbyn e) 2nd ref and remain wins.

    However, given the vagueries of FPTP and the balance of votes in constituencies that have never seen serious competition between four / five / six “major” parties, it might be more likely there’d be a Tory / BXP coalition. In which case, the UK will be completely and utterly fucked beyond comprehension. Tory / BXP government and no deal.

    I am sceptical of anyone suggesting they can predict the result of a snap election. Popular vote polls are completely irrelevant and I don't know why you're arguing about them.

    Separately:

    a) Fuck Trump. Fucking fuck him up the arse with a pineapple. Criticising a diplomat for truthful analysis written in confidence as part of his job description and then humiliating May in the way he did. I despise May. But fuck Trump. Seriously, he brings shame on the US. I’d rather do business with China. Fuck the Americans. Literally, fuck them.

    b) Hunt vs BJ tonight. Delighted that Hunt flagged up the very real possibility of civil war. The UK is teetering on the brink now. If we do not find a compromise, there will be hell to pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    Im kind of sick of us having to accept this stupid FPTP shit. The more we argue about how to game a stupid system the longer that system will sustain itself.
    Yes. So, if there is a snap GE and because I live in a [edit] Little Englander safe seat, for the first time ever, I will spoil my vote. I’d rather count as an expression of dissatisfaction than I would contribute to the Lib Dem’s non-meaningful popular vote share.
    Last edited by LeGin Tufnel; 2019-07-09 at 11:59 PM.

  16. #18596
    I seriously doubt there will be another extention. Whatever scenario you cook up, it's probably most realistic in a non-extension situation. Juncker's last day is 31st of October. They didn't pick that date randomly. He wants to finish it in in his term. They want a fresh start with the new term. Either it's with the UK having a deal and outside, or the UK without a deal and outside. But what the EU doesn't seem to want is to begin another term of the Commission that's dominated by a country that is so disorganised, it's becoming a global spectacle.

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...o-deal-brexit/

    The Council today adopted contingency measures on the implementation and financing of the 2019 EU budget in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

    The aim of the measures is to mitigate the impact of a no-deal scenario for funding in a wide range of areas such as research and agriculture.

    They will enable the EU to continue making payments to UK beneficiaries for contracts signed and decisions made before the withdrawal date, as long as the UK continues paying its contribution agreed in the EU budget for 2019.
    The EU is considering no-deal certain enough to adopt action on it already. They haven't done this the last time around. We're begining bracing procedures. I suggest you do the same.

    And just because I'd like to stick it to anyone saying Germany is running the EU... if we were, we wouldn't do it like this:



    Notice that white bit in the middle not getting near as much investments as the surrounding bits? That's Germany. For realsies. Pick a map of Europe and compare. It's amazing how we are supposed to run this show and don't give ourselves the money.
    Last edited by Slant; 2019-07-10 at 10:11 AM.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  17. #18597
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I seriously doubt there will be another extention. Whatever scenario you cook up, it's probably most realistic in a non-extension situation.
    Yes, this is what I would assume too.

    Instead of using this extra time to gain consensus in parliament, the Conservatives have chosen to replace their leader. As a consequence the most likely outcomes are now no deal or revoke. Both of which will foment civil unrest.

  18. #18598
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    There was this case a decade or so ago in Greece were someone slipped something really greasy in his envelope and into the ballot which slowly just oiled up half the ballot and spoiled all those votes.
    Please don't tell me it was Olive oil, that would be blasphemous waste of good olive oil.

  19. #18599
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Most likely some form of cured meat.
    This is inspiring.

    I will sabotage some Little Englander votes with a couple of slices of Genoa salami.

  20. #18600
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Anyone see the Panorama documentary last night?

    I'm not sure what's more horrific, the treatment of Jewish Labour party members, staff being driven to breakdowns and contemplating suicide, or the deflect, derail and denial campaign the Labour Party began before the episode aired.


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