View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18701
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Your first point is a contributing factor, albeit a minor one, as to why cross-party negotiations are going nowhere but largely irrelevant when it comes to voting for the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. Once passed the Act would become law and could not be revoked without a further act of Parliament.

    May revoking A50 because she has nothing to lose is for want of a better word - bonkers.
    Can she even do that unilaterally? Does it require no act of parliament?
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  2. #18702
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Can she even do that unilaterally? Does it require no act of parliament?
    The ECJ demands that a revocation is in line with the national requirements for such things, aka it must be constitutional (if one wants to use that word for the UK).
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  3. #18703
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The ECJ demands that a revocation is in line with the national requirements for such things, aka it must be constitutional (if one wants to use that word for the UK).
    Which is why I am asking a British poster; what would it take for her to do that per UK law?
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  4. #18704
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Which is why I am asking a British poster; what would it take for her to do that per UK law?
    What you said, an Act of Parliament. Mostly, because it was an Act of Parliament to invoke A50 in the first place. But we'll see what the British have to say about that.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  5. #18705
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Can she even do that unilaterally? Does it require no act of parliament?
    I am unsure of the legalities regarding A50 revocation, triggering A50 was passed with a vote in Parliament so I would guess that it is a safe assumption that it would require a vote to revoke it but British law is often complex and not altogether straight forward especially to layman. However I am sure that if May was to announce that she intended unilaterally revoke A50 the Tories would find a way to remove her as PM before her plane landed in Brussels.

  6. #18706
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Your first point is a contributing factor, albeit a minor one, as to why cross-party negotiations are going nowhere but largely irrelevant when it comes to voting for the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. Once passed the Bill would become law and could not be revoked without a further act of Parliament.

    May revoking A50 because she has nothing to lose is for want of a better word - bonkers.
    Why would it be bonkers?

  7. #18707
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Why would it be bonkers?
    Really? Are you being serious?

    You don't think a PM who not only has lost the backing the house but her own party deciding to essentially tear up the results of two democratic votes (the ref. and subsequent GE) and in the process riding roughshod over her party, the HoC and our political systems and laws because she is being ousted and therefore has nothing to lose is bonkers?

    Assuming it was even possible for this to happen it would destroy not only the Tory party but our democracy with it.

  8. #18708
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    deciding to essentially tear up the results of two democratic votes
    Lets examine that, shall we.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    the ref.
    If it was not advisory, the result would have been declared invalid already due to the actions of the leave side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    and subsequent GE
    Where the Conservatives lost their majority, implying the public did not agree with the direction they were taking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Assuming it was even possible for this to happen it would destroy not only the Tory party
    At this point, a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    but our democracy with it.
    And now you sound like Farage.

    In other, more cheerful news - elements of the Brexit party manifesto are finally being published.



    God bless ByDonkeys
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-16 at 01:40 PM.

  9. #18709
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Really? Are you being serious?

    You don't think a PM who not only has lost the backing the house but her own party deciding to essentially tear up the results of two democratic votes (the ref. and subsequent GE) and in the process riding roughshod over her party, the HoC and our political systems and laws because she is being ousted and therefore has nothing to lose is bonkers?

    Assuming it was even possible for this to happen it would destroy not only the Tory party but our democracy with it.
    The GE was not in support of Brexit don't fall into the myth that just because someone put an x to labour or Tory they're flag waiving anti europe. That will put you in the Dribbles camp of stupid. As for the the ref. can we also stop pretending that wasn't hyjacked and had one side confirmed to be cheating while the remain side stuck to the laws of the land? (Confirmed by court cased which the leave groups aren't even appealing)

  10. #18710
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Really? Are you being serious?

    You don't think a PM who not only has lost the backing the house but her own party deciding to essentially tear up the results of two democratic votes (the ref. and subsequent GE) and in the process riding roughshod over her party, the HoC and our political systems and laws because she is being ousted and therefore has nothing to lose is bonkers?

    Assuming it was even possible for this to happen it would destroy not only the Tory party but our democracy with it.
    If your democracy is fragile enough to be destroyed by a PM acting against an advisory referendum with an almost 50-50 split, then maybe it deserves to be destroyed, tbh.

  11. #18711
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    The GE was not in support of Brexit don't fall into the myth that just because someone put an x to labour or Tory they're flag waiving anti europe. That will put you in the Dribbles camp of stupid. As for the the ref. can we also stop pretending that wasn't hyjacked and had one side confirmed to be cheating while the remain side stuck to the laws of the land? (Confirmed by court cased which the leave groups aren't even appealing)
    You've failed to address my point and unsurprisingly seem to have missed it altogether. But to address your little strawman, the Cons ran on a manifesto of delivering Brexit and were subsequently elected, Labour votes have absolutely nothing to do with it, and the ref, flawed as it was, returned the result to leave the EU, you whining that it was not fair over and over and over again and calling others stupid will not change this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    If your democracy is fragile enough to be destroyed by a PM acting against an advisory referendum with an almost 50-50 split, then maybe it deserves to be destroyed, tbh.
    Yeah, and perhaps afterwards we could do away with the title Prime Minister altogether and go with something like... Lady Protector?!?

  12. #18712
    Weren't the brexiteers the ones claiming the EU was costing 350M a week which could be injected into the NHS ?

  13. #18713
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    the Cons ran on a manifesto of delivering Brexit and were subsequently elected
    They formed a government by throwing money at the DUP, they lost their majority in the actual election.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    you whining that it was not fair over and over and over again and calling others stupid will not change this.
    When did he call leave voters stupid?

    Hint - you feeling stupid about voting for Brexit does not mean others are calling you stupid when they say that the people you voted for lied
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-16 at 03:28 PM.

  14. #18714
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrundi View Post
    Weren't the brexiteers the ones claiming the EU was costing 350M a week which could be injected into the NHS ?
    They also said that they'd get a Norway deal and make quickest and easiest deals in history. None of them ran on no deal at all. No deal as a term basically first came up with May's insane "No deal better than bad deal." comment

  15. #18715
    I think the point I was getting at is... you think there's a limit on how 'bonkers' the situation can become, Pann? After all that's come to pass?

    I agree, in so much as, May will never do it. Her entire priority from the outset has been to try and stop the Tories from splitting. So, yes, I think the idea's bonkers because she will never do it.

    However, if she were to do it... absolutely fantastic! Our 'democracy' is already a complete joke. The referendum was a complete joke. The events leading up to this point have been a complete joke.

    Article 50 is revoked: lots of angry Brexiteers... great!

    Basically, it'll either be them on the streets or Remainers if we hard Brexit. So, we'll just have to see how it plays out. I sincerely hope it's them getting stomped on.

    I would have accepted a soft Brexit / Brexit in increments. I will never accept a hard Brexit.

  16. #18716
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    I think the point I was getting at is... you think there's a limit on how 'bonkers' the situation can become, Pann? After all that's come to pass?

    I agree, in so much as, May will never do it. Her entire priority from the outset has been to try and stop the Tories from splitting. So, yes, I think the idea's bonkers because she will never do it.

    However, if she were to do it... absolutely fantastic! Our 'democracy' is already a complete joke. The referendum was a complete joke. The events leading up to this point have been a complete joke.

    Article 50 is revoked: lots of angry Brexiteers... great!

    Basically, it'll either be them on the streets or Remainers if we hard Brexit. So, we'll just have to see how it plays out. I sincerely hope it's them getting stomped on.

    I would have accepted a soft Brexit / Brexit in increments. I will never accept a hard Brexit.
    That's a fair comment to be honest.

    Fortunately we do not live in a dictatorship therefore it would not be possible for May to stop Brexit on her own, but just to put the concept to the test - how would you feel about May deciding she has nothing to lose and that we will leave immediately on WTO terms?

    Why must people be angry? Isn't it due to people being angry and refusing to listen to each other that we are in this mess?

  17. #18717
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Why must people be angry? Isn't it due to people being angry and refusing to listen to each other that we are in this mess?
    No one was angry really until the backpeddling began which iirc was about 9am the day after the referrendum.

    So I wouldn't say it was "angrily refusing to listen" that got us here; but yeah I guess since then it hasn't improved because of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  18. #18718
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    No one was angry really until the backpeddling began which iirc was about 9am the day after the referrendum.

    So I wouldn't say it was "angrily refusing to listen" that got us here; but yeah I guess since then it hasn't improved because of it.
    Without digging over the past too much I think that the leave campaign did a very effective job of harnessing the anger that many leave voters felt and it was instrumental in leave securing the victory.

    I disagree, leave refused to listened to experts and remain refused to what leavers were saying during the run up to the ref. perhaps if either side had been just a little more willing to listen to each other things would have been different?

    - - - Updated - - -

    May is going soon and will most likely announce her resignation when the withdrawal bill is defeated again.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1129022177288904705


    ------

    Labour seem to be moving towards backing a confirmatory ref.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1129071598047256577
    Last edited by Pann; 2019-05-16 at 05:27 PM.

  19. #18719
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    May is going soon and will most likely announce her resignation when the withdrawal bill is defeated again.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1129022177288904705
    Top-voted BBC comment:

    3. Posted by surfingsharka on
    9 hours ago
    May has put Chris Grayling in charge of naming her departure date.

    I have it on good authority that he is busy arranging it for September 31st.


    Hmmms

    The interesting question is what will Tory Remainers do if a grassroots type replaces her. Will they actually put their money where their mouths are and quit the party if e.g., BoJo is elected.

    Would their votes (with the opposition) be enough to bring down the government? Would they have the proverbial cojones their counterparts on the right of the party claim to have?

    In a way, although I dislike May and her nauseating patronising primary school teacher attitude, I think it's probably better she stayed until Labour's hand is finally forced.

    I wonder if BoJo's gamble is: lose vote of no confidence, GE, coalition with Brexit Party, hard Brexit. BoJo as PM, Farage as Minister without Portfolio.

    ---

    You think I'm pissed now, Pann? The above occurs, you ain't seen nuttin.
    Last edited by LeGin Tufnel; 2019-05-16 at 08:04 PM.

  20. #18720
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Top-voted BBC comment:

    3. Posted by surfingsharka on
    9 hours ago
    May has put Chris Grayling in charge of naming her departure date.

    I have it on good authority that he is busy arranging it for September 31st.


    Hmmms

    The interesting question is what will Tory Remainers do if a grassroots type replaces her. Will they actually put their money where their mouths are and quit the party if e.g., BoJo is elected.

    Would their votes (with the opposition) be enough to bring down the government? Would they have the proverbial cojones their counterparts on the right of the party claim to have?

    In a way, although I dislike May and her nauseating patronising primary school teacher attitude, I think it's probably better she stayed until Labour's hand is finally forced.

    I wonder if BoJo's gamble is: lose vote of no confidence, GE, coalition with Brexit Party, hard Brexit. BoJo as PM, Farage as Minister without Portfolio.

    ---

    You think I'm pissed now, Pann? The above occurs, you ain't seen nuttin.
    Peston blogged about this kind of situation earlier today: https://www.itv.com/news/2019-05-16/...he-tory-party/

    Maybe you shouldn't read it...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •