View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18841
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Rather, they'll be happy you are finally out.
    You think so?

    See if I were a business with 28 customers - the EU, who lost one of its top 3 to a competitor - the USA/Rest of the World, I wouldn't be very happy at all.

    In fact I'd be doing all I could to keep one of my major customers, offering them cake and cherries, accommodating their wishes to the best of my ability. My business would be far weaker to just watch them walk out the door...

  2. #18842
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You think so?

    See if I were a business with 28 customers - the EU, who lost one of its top 3 to a competitor - the USA/Rest of the World, I wouldn't be very happy at all.

    In fact I'd be doing all I could to keep one of my major customers, offering them cake and cherries, accommodating their wishes to the best of my ability. My business would be far weaker to just watch them walk out the door...
    Fair point, it will hurt the EU. And yes, good customers should get special treatment, exactly like the UK has now.

    It becomes a problem when the customer starts to demand more and more and more. At some point you have to draw a line or you go bankrupt accomodating that one customer. It hurts, but it's necessary.

    Meanwhile, customers tending to leverage their position, can often overestimate their reception at a new business.

  3. #18843
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You think so?

    See if I were a business with 28 customers - the EU, who lost one of its top 3 to a competitor - the USA/Rest of the World, I wouldn't be very happy at all.

    In fact I'd be doing all I could to keep one of my major customers, offering them cake and cherries, accommodating their wishes to the best of my ability. My business would be far weaker to just watch them walk out the door...
    Bring it on.

    If the UK wants to shoot themselves in the foot, we should let them.

  4. #18844
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Either way the result will be a remain victory and this time the margin will be so wide it will leave no doubt.
    I highly doubt that. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if leave won by a greater margin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gelannerai View Post


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  5. #18845
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    They are not customers. They are trade partners. They sell to the EU quite a fair bit too. And what they mostly sell (services) is not something they will be able to sell anywhere else because service trade agreements are non-existent. The EU is one of the few places that afford some limited freedom in service trade.
    You are absolutely right, of course. But in Dribbles limited viewing of this matter, they are, in part, also customers, because they buy things from the EU.

    That the UK basically has 1 customer responsible for 80% of their business, and they pissed them off... Well that's a different discussion entirely.

  6. #18846
    Farage on Radio 2 questioning Johnson's patchy policy record...

    Less than an hour after getting elected he's already setting up BoJo as not a pure enough Brexiteer...

  7. #18847
    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    Farage on Radio 2 questioning Johnson's patchy policy record...

    Less than an hour after getting elected he's already setting up BoJo as not a pure enough Brexiteer...
    Johnson supporters are on the radio right now saying his aim is to add detail to the political declaration only, not to re-open the withdrawal agreement - so you can't blame Brexit true believer lunatics for a little bit of immediate buyer's remorse (presumably Johnson's ex-wives felt the same ).
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-07-23 at 12:40 PM.

  8. #18848
    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    Farage on Radio 2 questioning Johnson's patchy policy record...

    Less than an hour after getting elected he's already setting up BoJo as not a pure enough Brexiteer...
    That's because unlike when he was in UKIP which doesn't have a view on becoming a party that forms governments. The Brexit Party has the funding behind it from some dubious backers east of Poland that want the Brexit party to be the government in this country. So essentially Farage is now playing party politics, trying to win support from people that voted brexit party in the euro election that will jump back to conservatives because of Bojo.

    Painting him as not brexit enough is the only way to do it.

  9. #18849
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You think so?

    See if I were a business with 28 customers - the EU, who lost one of its top 3 to a competitor - the USA/Rest of the World, I wouldn't be very happy at all.

    In fact I'd be doing all I could to keep one of my major customers, offering them cake and cherries, accommodating their wishes to the best of my ability. My business would be far weaker to just watch them walk out the door...
    And your business would go broke rather quickly. See, no business enslaves itself to the customer. That's a myth they feed you. If the customer starts costing too much money to be profitable, they're shown the door. And honestly, nobody gives a fuck about you being a customer if you don't pay up your debt. Good luck in the real world.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  10. #18850
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    potentially avoiding austerity altogether.
    The only way that would have happened in 2010 is if the Green party won.

    Labour's austerity plan called for more cuts than we actually took between 2010 and 2015. Austerity wasn't just some Tory fantasy plan.


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  11. #18851
    So, the UK is still wondering what BoJo is doing, you guys are already discussing party politics and electorates and how the BXP will play into it all...

    While the EU, single-minded, just reiterates the only thing that actually matters. Within seconds of BoJo's PM announcement. I think they're trying to make a point here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9016911.html

    The EU has shot down Boris Johnson’s Brexit plan within moments of his appointment as Tory leader, in the latest sign that the bloc has no plans to make concessions.

    In an intervention timed to coincide with Mr Johnson’s election announcement, Frans Timmermans, the European Commission’s first vice president, told reporters in Brussels that the EU would not renegotiate.
    Just to make sure that everyone gets the message. Once more, one side has a plan and a strategy, the other side doesn't.
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  12. #18852
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojojojo202 View Post
    They failed to bring about either voting reform or Lords reform they had promised.
    Except that one isn't their fault.

    We voted that down in a referendum.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Johnson still can't resolve the Irish border, he won't be able to do shit.

    Call his bluff and only offer an extension in exchange for a 2nd ref and watch Trump's younger brother sweat.


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  13. #18853
    I vote to call his bluff and see the country vanish over the cliff's edge. Sometimes children need to feel the pain to learn the lesson.

    Also, for no particular reason, I'd like to show this:



    The real victims in all of this.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  14. #18854
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I vote to call his bluff and see the country vanish over the cliff's edge. Sometimes children need to feel the pain to learn the lesson.
    Sure punish the rest of us for a minority

    Step back on the rhetoric, leave that to dribbles and his ilk.

    The country won't go over the cliff edge, no matter how much you are baying for blood.


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  15. #18855
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    So, the UK is still wondering what BoJo is doing, you guys are already discussing party politics and electorates and how the BXP will play into it all...

    While the EU, single-minded, just reiterates the only thing that actually matters. Within seconds of BoJo's PM announcement. I think they're trying to make a point here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9016911.html



    Just to make sure that everyone gets the message. Once more, one side has a plan and a strategy, the other side doesn't.

    It took what almost two years to get the last deal hammered out I seriously doubt the EU wants to drag this out another 2 years only to get to the exact same point they are at now.

  16. #18856
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    The deal isn't for renegotiation, nor should it be. May wasted precious time with her redlines, and anyone claiming they can renegotiate it is talking out of their arses.


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  17. #18857
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Sure punish the rest of us for a minority

    Step back on the rhetoric, leave that to dribbles and his ilk.

    The country won't go over the cliff edge, no matter how much you are baying for blood.
    Well it is either the UK that crashes and burns or Brexit fails and anti-EU rhetoric gets louder in the rest of the EU.

    Better the UK than the rest of us buddy.

  18. #18858
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Well it is either the UK that crashes and burns or Brexit fails and anti-EU rhetoric gets louder in the rest of the EU.

    Better the UK than the rest of us buddy.
    You think the UK leaving is going to quieten down the likes of Le Pen?

    Short of us devolving into a third world country it'll empower them that it's possible.


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  19. #18859
    Elemental Lord zealo's Avatar
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    Cancelling Brexit at this point would just kick the can down the road for a bit, while the root cause of what even brought us to this point in the first place would still fester in the background.

    No matter what happens, the UK needs to confront that issue head-on.

  20. #18860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    Sure punish the rest of us for a minority

    Step back on the rhetoric, leave that to dribbles and his ilk.

    The country won't go over the cliff edge, no matter how much you are baying for blood.
    People are just frustrated is all. The EU clearly doesn't want the UK to fail out, or they wouldn't have given extensions to begin with. Nobody (sane) really WANTS to see decent people hurt because of the poor faith actions of a minority of individuals.

    But just look at this thread. It was made almost 2 years ago, and is the 3rd most viewed/posted thread in that time (behind the Trump Shitshow and Mueller Investigation threads). But the discussion and arguments going back and forth in this thread are pretty much the exact same ones that were going on in it at the start, because the situation really hasn't changed fundamentally in the past two years. That's exhausting. People do still actually want the best outcome if it's possible. But if we can't get the best outcome, then we do need SOME outcome. And the longer this circus goes on, the lower the bar for 'what is an acceptable outcome' gets, because there are fewer and fewer people who still have hope that even a good outcome is possible anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    You think the UK leaving is going to quieten down the likes of Le Pen?

    Short of us devolving into a third world country it'll empower them that it's possible.
    This is very true. Does anyone really think Le Pen cares if the UK is harmed by leaving? Hell, does anyone think that Le Pen cares if France would be harmed if it left? These are a type of person who is extremely happy to see someone else sacrificed for the 'greater good'. Always someone else, of course. And the 'greater good' always ends up being suspiciously like the person hawking it getting all the benefits and everyone else paying for them. Hmm.

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