View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19021
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I am not purporting to speak only for all British people but share the same view as 100's of millions of EU citizens continent wide. Please don't belittle that many people. Ask the ordinary impoverished Greek people, ask the debt ridden for life average Italian people, ask the EE nations/the Visegrad group, and so on what they really think of and those who hold the true power in the EU.

    This fallacy of EU unity as it falls apart before our eyes is quite ridiculous.

    And as for WW2 I'll give you an anecdote as to why a few mad men anointed somewhere in Europe will never succeed in ruling a continent.

    I lived in France for a few years on and off and I asked a now life long French friend why the English are only tolerated there rather than welcomed with open arms. His response was that it is hard to be 100% comfortable, even now, with countrymen whose ancestors participated in the 100 year war. That finished between England and France in 1453 ffs. The idea that, in comparison, recent events and those responsible for WW2 and their descendents will ever be totally forgiven in my lifetime, my children's lifetimes and my childrens childrens lifetime is total nonsense. Perhaps in 500 years as in my French/English example and memories fade through many generations we will tolerate each other once again.
    Quite the irrelevant word salad. I'll be sure not engage the crazy with 2 whole sentences in future.
    Often updated... ?

  2. #19022
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I think it was the late great Tony Benn who once said that if ordinary people don't have the power to remove and elect their leader they don't live in a democracy.

    I am glad I do. Can you say the same eurochums?
    After Cameron stood down, May took over. Nobody voted for her as leader. Then after the last election the Tories didn't get a majority, yet here we are with May as leader. Once again your personal definition of what democracy means is highly amusing for the rest of us.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  3. #19023
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    Each new President is nominated by the European Council and formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presid...ean_Commission

    in this case PM Cameron was part of nomination (last election of Juncker was before PM May took office) and MEPs agreed. if Cameron was against it and Farage too: sucks to be british, you were overruled by democracy.
    and by the way: nobody elected PM Cameron or May directly; happens in other countries too with their heads of government.
    Doesn't it make you feel bad that you have no voice in who is nominated? Do you even know without looking who the candidates are on the list of nominations to be our next great leader? So when does Junker leave and the new as yet unknown get anoninted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    The President of the EU is recommended by the European Council (i.e. the heads of member states - for example you voted for Theresa May's voice on the Council) and voted on by the European Parliament (i.e. the people the you will be voting for next week). The nomination and confirmatory vote happens after the European Elections.
    What can you do if you don't like who is recommended? You just have to accept that?

    When is all this happening is it soon, surely not this Thursday? Are we just going to wake up on Friday and some new bod that nobody currently knows will appear on TV and say "hello eurochums, just to let you know I am your new great leader now bend the knee to my wishes for the next 5 years until my best mate takes over from me"

    You know that doesn't sound very democratic to me.

  4. #19024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    The President of the EU is recommended by the European Council (i.e. the heads of member states - for example you voted for Theresa May's voice on the Council) and voted on by the European Parliament (i.e. the people the you will be voting for next week). The nomination and confirmatory vote happens after the European Elections.
    Council and EP vote by majority, so it is perfect possible none of UK's candidates will become next President. in 2014 Cameron objected to Juncker, but as he and Orban (from Hungary) were the only ones, Juncker was nominated.

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    ....

    You know that doesn't sound very democratic to me.
    nobody likes PM May, but she is still there (for some weeks) ?
    Last edited by ranzino; 2019-05-19 at 12:05 PM.

  5. #19025
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    What can you do if you don't like who is recommended? You just have to accept that?

    When is all this happening is it soon, surely not this Thursday? Are we just going to wake up on Friday and some new bod that nobody currently knows will appear on TV and say "hello eurochums, just to let you know I am your new great leader now bend the knee to my wishes for the next 5 years until my best mate takes over from me"

    You know that doesn't sound very democratic to me.
    If the representatives you elect next weekend do not approve, then they tell the commission to find another candidate.

  6. #19026
    Oh - Now that we have you Dribbles, would you care to explain the democratic process by which members of the House of Lords are elected? Or the mechanisms in place to remove them should their views stray from that of the populace? I mean there surely cannot be an undemocratic institution in place in the UK.

  7. #19027
    Quote Originally Posted by Gibblewink View Post
    Oh - Now that we have you Dribbles, would you care to explain the democratic process by which members of the House of Lords are elected? Or the mechanisms in place to remove them should their views stray from that of the populace? I mean there surely cannot be an undemocratic institution in place in the UK.
    Or how Theresa May became a democratically elected PM in 2016

  8. #19028
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    If the representatives you elect next weekend do not approve, then they tell the commission to find another candidate.
    Can I stand as a candidate? I'm not besties with the outgoing Juncker, will that be a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibblewink View Post
    Oh - Now that we have you Dribbles, would you care to explain the democratic process by which members of the House of Lords are elected? Or the mechanisms in place to remove them should their views stray from that of the populace? I mean there surely cannot be an undemocratic institution in place in the UK.
    The Lords are advisory only, a group with centuries of life and political experience who offer opinions. Nothing more or less.
    Last edited by dribbles; 2019-05-19 at 12:11 PM.

  9. #19029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    If the representatives you elect next weekend do not approve, then they tell the commission to find another candidate.
    also means UK will have to lift their collective butts and vote next week or their influence is zilch. and btw: UK even in case of later Brexit will still be faced with the next President, as he/she is EU's representant to them.
    and Tories will vote PM and nominate the next President and do so without GE; they do not face any democracy until then. so what ?

  10. #19030
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Can I stand as a candidate? I'm not besties with the outgoing Juncker, will that be a problem?
    Gain decades of experience dealing with international negotiations and policy decisions at the highest levels of government and yes, you could be selected.

  11. #19031
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Gain decades of experience dealing with international negotiations and policy decisions at the highest levels of government and yes, you could be selected.
    Oh goodie I'll set to it straight away. Do you think my time on this board will count? I mean it probably has a population equal to Luxembourg where the existing great leader came from...

  12. #19032
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Do you think my time on this board will count?
    No. Indeed, when they come to read what you write here it may even count against you. It's probably best that you just stop. Accusations of being nazis might work for a low-level functionary such as Farage, but they are more than counter-productive for those with real responsibilities.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-05-19 at 12:23 PM.

  13. #19033
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Oh goodie I'll set to it straight away. Do you think my time on this board will count? I mean it probably has a population equal to Luxembourg where the existing great leader came from...
    Brexit means Brexit, you will never rise to the occasion; per your own volition.

  14. #19034
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I am not purporting to speak only for all British people but share the same view as 100's of millions of EU citizens continent wide. Please don't belittle that many people. Ask the ordinary impoverished Greek people, ask the debt ridden for life average Italian people, ask the EE nations/the Visegrad group, and so on what they really think of and those who hold the true power in the EU.

    This fallacy of EU unity as it falls apart before our eyes is quite ridiculous.

    And as for WW2 I'll give you an anecdote as to why a few mad men anointed somewhere in Europe will never succeed in ruling a continent.

    I lived in France for a few years on and off and I asked a now life long French friend why the English are only tolerated there rather than welcomed with open arms. His response was that it is hard to be 100% comfortable, even now, with countrymen whose ancestors participated in the 100 year war. That finished between England and France in 1453 ffs. The idea that, in comparison, recent events and those responsible for WW2 and their descendents will ever be totally forgiven in my lifetime, my children's lifetimes and my childrens childrens lifetime is total nonsense. Perhaps in 500 years as in my French/English example and memories fade through many generations we will tolerate each other once again.

    Just as an aside from all that perhaps you can help me out here. I hear rumours Juncker is on his way out as our EU President, is that true? Who is the new one, has that even been decided yet and by who? Will we find out before he or her addresses the continent from a podium as the anointed EU leader? Does anyone get to vote for the new President?

    I think it was the late great Tony Benn who once said that if ordinary people don't have the power to remove and elect their leader they don't live in a democracy.

    I am glad I do. Can you say the same eurochums?
    Your abit wrong, you and the french were concurrents up until the WW2, Napoleon, American War for Independance were either direct or proxy wars between france and the uk.
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  15. #19035
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Your abit wrong, you and the french were concurrents up until the WW2, Napoleon, American War for Independance were either direct or proxy wars between france and the uk.
    Your time line is a bit off on that, it's rather up until a while before WW1.

    Things started to change roughly after Bismarck died, and Willhelm II got put in charge, and the then unified Germany started adopting a much more aggressive foreign policy stance, especially the naval arms race with Britain that began at a time when the British view on things were essentially "have as many ships as the second and third strongest naval powers combined".

  16. #19036
    In previous years only people who really hated the EU bothered to vote in the European elections but this year is turning out to be a proxy for a 2nd referendum with leave and remain parties polling strongly whilst the main two flounder, with Lab falling behind the LDs and the Cons now polling worse than the Greens.

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/sta...78004161757184

    It will be very interesting to see what the turnout is this year.

  17. #19037
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    In previous years only people who really hated the EU bothered to vote in the European elections but this year is turning out to be a proxy for a 2nd referendum with leave and remain parties polling strongly whilst the main two flounder, with Lab falling behind the LDs and the Cons now polling worse than the Greens.

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/sta...78004161757184

    It will be very interesting to see what the turnout is this year.
    Not just for the UK, but for the whole of the EU. Brexit has rattled quite a few people and I wouldn't be surprised if voter turnout has increased after this election.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  18. #19038
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I am not purporting to speak only for all British people but share the same view as 100's of millions of EU citizens continent wide. Please don't belittle that many people. Ask the ordinary impoverished Greek people, ask the debt ridden for life average Italian people, ask the EE nations/the Visegrad group, and so on what they really think of and those who hold the true power in the EU.
    The rich do, the multinationals do.
    And they also hold the power in Italy and they hold the power in Hungary and the rest of the Visegrad.
    Don't, for a second, think that just because you've left the EU you now have put the power back in the hands of the people.

    Just as an aside from all that perhaps you can help me out here. I hear rumours Juncker is on his way out as our EU President, is that true? Who is the new one, has that even been decided yet and by who? Will we find out before he or her addresses the continent from a podium as the anointed EU leader? Does anyone get to vote for the new President?
    Most likely Frans Timmermans, worst possible person for this position if you ask me.

    I think it was the late great Tony Benn who once said that if ordinary people don't have the power to remove and elect their leader they don't live in a democracy.
    I am glad I do. Can you say the same eurochums?
    Then tell me why May is still in power.
    Don't talk to me about living in a democracy, you're one of the few European nations that literally has the aristocracy in power.
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    This is our planet. You just live here.

  19. #19039
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Most likely Frans Timmermans, worst possible person for this position if you ask me.
    Who? Never heard of the man, probably like 99/100 ordinary EU folk. How many on this board had heard of him prior to you mentioning him? Very odd isn't it for a supposed democracy. When will he stand up and introduce himself as the new head EU bossman to the ordinary joes like me who are expected to pay his extravagant salary, or we just get to hear of him through the grapevine? At the least it's just a bit rude that he can't be bothered prior to his appointment. Im not expecting an EU equivalent of "My fellow Americans" but a "wotcha eurochums" wouldn't go amiss. It is just uncivilised...

    Then tell me why May is still in power.
    Don't talk to me about living in a democracy, you're one of the few European nations that literally has the aristocracy in power.
    May is in place but not in power and she'll be gone by summer. Everyone in the UK is well aware of who the likely replacement will be and soon after his appointment he must face the electorate for confirmation, or not, of that.

    And at least eventually we get a say in that process and will have a good idea of the measure of the man, unlike the new EU nobody that nobody knows yet.

  20. #19040
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Who? Never heard of the man, probably like 99/100 ordinary EU folk. How many on this board had heard of him prior to you mentioning him? Very odd isn't it for a supposed democracy.
    You are mistaken a democracy for a mediacracy. In a democracy if you want to be informed you have to read, another thing low-iq brexiteers don't understand. In a mediacracy tv-stars become president...

    https://www.politico.eu/article/fran...ness-brussels/
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-b...-idUSKCN1RF2QR
    Last edited by Software; 2019-05-19 at 09:34 PM.

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