[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Pannonian]

I don't know if a second vote is a good idea.

Imagine Remain would win: How many decades would we have to listen to the snark about "EU lets people vote until they are happy with the results!!!!11111". Let's leave them in their misery. Maybe they'll learn and be an example to other countries.

[Mayhem]

They already are an example to other countries.

[Pannonian]

It's true that enthusiasm for the anti-EU sentiment has died down somewhat at least in the countries i'm more familiar with, but i don't think it is enough. People tend to forget pretty fast (e.g. it took only 12 years for people to forget how disastrous the FPÖ behaves as part of the government) unless it hurts them. Let the british have their Brexit for a few years and afterwards the can come back, and we will all have learned a valuable lesson, which hopefully holds for longer than a decade.

Of course i could be wrong and Brexit is all rainbows and unicorn glitters, but i doubt that

[Noradin]

I get it. It's just I've never understood this sensitivity towards it. Almost feels like it's the British version of the race debate across the pond. Why do middle class people seem so afraid to be middle class, the upper class don't have this problem, the working class sure as shit don't have this problem and neither do our criminal class.

It's not a modern phenomenon either. I can't/won't go into detail but I recently began to care for a client who was quite middle class, had a middle class name and now goes by "Bill" because he knew he'd get his arse kicked during his National Service for being middle class.

Why do we as Brits hate our middle class so?

It is.

The upper class made them into a target for the working class as a distraction.
The investor class kept it this way out of convenience.

[Slant]

It's true that enthusiasm for the anti-EU sentiment has died down somewhat at least in the countries i'm more familiar with, but i don't think it is enough. People tend to forget pretty fast (e.g. it took only 12 years for people to forget how disastrous the FPÖ behaves as part of the government) unless it hurts them. Let the british have their Brexit for a few years and afterwards the can come back, and we will all have learned a valuable lesson, which hopefully holds for longer than a decade.

Of course i could be wrong and Brexit is all rainbows and unicorn glitters, but i doubt that

To be honest, I'm not quite happy with this solution. I don't like to use the stick to teach people a lesson. If the British do this, I don't care if they learn a lesson anymore. a few years? I wouldn't want them back for at least 10 years, and by then I'd like them to really, really want t his. Including a 1000 page essay of their PM explaining what the EU is, why it exists, how it works and what the UK wants to get out of EU membership and.. perhaps more importantly, how the UK thinks it can contribute to the project.

They need to want to be part of the team and be okay with the idea that nobody will blow sugar up their ass anymore and they don't get special treatment.

[tehealadin]

I wonder how likely we are to have a GE in November, a few papers are suggesting that Johnson plans one very soon after the exit date. Will be interesting to see what happens.

Also:



I got a giggle. Reminds me of someone.

[dribbles]

And another £0.5bn (wages alone, not counting the infrastructure) of UK charity coming back home from the EU. Good Job!

Army pulls thousands of troops out of Germany in major plan to base armed forces in UK

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...hdrawal-troops

US next? Are we all still sleeping soundly on the EU eastern borders?

US threatens to withdraw troops from Germany

https://www.dw.com/en/us-threatens-t...any/a-49959555

Just what the EU economy needs right now...

[Mayhem]

And another £0.5bn (wages alone, not counting the infrastructure) of UK charity coming back home from the EU. Good Job!

Army pulls thousands of troops out of Germany in major plan to base armed forces in UK

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...hdrawal-troops

US next? Are we all still sleeping soundly on the EU eastern borders?

US threatens to withdraw troops from Germany

https://www.dw.com/en/us-threatens-t...any/a-49959555

Just what the EU economy needs right now...

You're a little late to the story dribbs, that troop relocation started in 2010 and was planned to end in 2020.

[Kronik85]

It makes sense for him to do one immediately after. It kills BXP since he will have passed No Deal and they have no reason to exist and as fast as he can do it after, the less time people will have to understand what has happened. Or at least I think that'd be the reasoning. Plus his opposition would probably be fucked. Lib Dems message has been all about Brexit and after No Deal there is nothing they can do about it. Corbyn is pretty damn unpopular. It makes sense for them to do this to try and secure a decent majority.

It's been interesting watching BoJo using his time as PM to essentially campaign for a GE before the other parties are allowed to even lay out a manifesto. I have no idea what Labour are even going to fight BoJo with when he's throwing out money so fast it's going to make Labour spending pledges look tame.

Labour managed to do OK last election fighting a leader with no charisma who was promising to take their houses or their inheritance off them when they or a family member got sick. This time they are going up against a man who has spent years crafting a persona people at the very least find interesting if not outright like who is role playing as Oprah Winfrey on a give away spree. If he executes his No Deal agenda then he will have cut the legs out from everyone of his political opponents.

[dribbles]

You're a little late to the story dribbs, that troop relocation started in 2010 and was planned to end in 2020.

Far more pertinent today with Macron and Ursula's renewed commitment to an EU army, those lying remainers said it wouldn't ever happen at the referendum, remember?

Don't want the UK getting dragged into that nightmare.

[Pann]

Far more pertinent today with Macron and Ursula's renewed commitment to an EU army, those lying remainers said it wouldn't ever happen at the referendum, remember?

Don't want the UK getting dragged into that nightmare.

I honestly don't get all problems Brexiteers seem to have with the potential of an EU army. The majority of military deployments we are involved with are already multi-national (although apparently we are not fit to lace US boots) and besides this we have/had a veto that would stop the formation of an EU army.

[Mayhem]

Far more pertinent today with Macron and Ursula's renewed commitment to an EU army, those lying remainers said it wouldn't ever happen at the referendum, remember?

Don't want the UK getting dragged into that nightmare.

Ok, so nothing has to do with nothing but you keep combining them anyways.

Project believe in full force.

[Pannonian]

To be honest, I'm not quite happy with this solution. I don't like to use the stick to teach people a lesson. If the British do this, I don't care if they learn a lesson anymore. a few years? I wouldn't want them back for at least 10 years, and by then I'd like them to really, really want t his. Including a 1000 page essay of their PM explaining what the EU is, why it exists, how it works and what the UK wants to get out of EU membership and.. perhaps more importantly, how the UK thinks it can contribute to the project.

They need to want to be part of the team and be okay with the idea that nobody will blow sugar up their ass anymore and they don't get special treatment.

Oh i fully agree on that sentiment. They need to want to come back and commit themselves for real this time.

The lesson though, is for all of the EU. For all the stupid populist movements that blame the EU for everything and want to destroy it/get out. Maybe if the first thunder dome is constructed in London they'll realize that the EU is probably a good idea. These are the people that need to learn a lesson. For the british it is too late anyway.

[dribbles]

I honestly don't get all problems Brexiteers seem to have with the potential of an EU army. The majority of military deployments we are involved with are already multi-national (although apparently we are not fit to lace US boots) and besides this we have/had a veto that would stop the formation of an EU army.

It's never going to work. Procurement will favour those nations who grease the EU Reichs palm the most. Again deployment will favour pet vanity projects e.g. French adventurism in Africa.

And that's all before pan-EU communication issues can be resolved. Forgetting language, some places in the EU you shake your head to mean yes, in others no, can you imagine the potential confusion on the battlefield?

Nah better off out of the EU army, in fact better off out of the corrupt EU as a whole.

[Pann]

It's never going to work. Procurement will favour those nations who grease the EU Reichs palm the most. Again deployment will favour pet vanity projects e.g. French adventurism in Africa.

And that's all before pan-EU communication issues can be resolved. Forgetting language, some places in the EU you shake your head to mean yes, in others no, can you imagine the potential confusion on the battlefield?

Nah better off out of the EU army, in fact better off out of the corrupt EU as a whole.

The Tornado and the Typhoon are result of European development and procurement. Has PESCO resulted in any EU member states' troops being deployed in Africa?

UK troops are currently deployed in a number of UN peace keeping missions with nations from across the globe and they have fought along side many more nations, who do not have English as a first language, (including a several EU member states) in a number of conflicts without issue. So I am not convinced that this was ever an issue.

All members states have a veto on military policy, even if the EU did decide to create an army we could not be forced to join.

As I said I do not understand why people have such a problem with the potential EU army and quite frankly you've done little to shed any light on the issue.

[Kallisto]

I honestly don't get all problems Brexiteers seem to have with the potential of an EU army. The majority of military deployments we are involved with are already multi-national (although apparently we are not fit to lace US boots) and besides this we have/had a veto that would stop the formation of an EU army.

From most brexiteers that seem to post on other areas when push comes to shove it just comes down to "something something THE GERMANS ARE AT IT AGAIN!" conspiracy they believe because they read it in their nationalist newspaper.

[Fuiking]

From most brexiteers that seem to post on other areas when push comes to shove it just comes down to "something something THE GERMANS ARE AT IT AGAIN!" conspiracy they believe because they read it in their nationalist newspaper.

*psssst* Dont blow my cover... let them think its zeh Germans!!!!11!!11 ... We, the Dutch are the true evil behind the EU army. We need England back.. England, colony of the Dutch + some world domination on the side... nutmegs here we come!

[tehealadin]

In regards to the EU army, it would have been nice for the UK to have access to a functional military force, instead of the one we have just now that isn't fit for purpose.

[Pann]

From most brexiteers that seem to post on other areas when push comes to shove it just comes down to "something something THE GERMANS ARE AT IT AGAIN!" conspiracy they believe because they read it in their nationalist newspaper.

What do you think is accomplished by these continued attacks of people who voted differently to you?

[Kallisto]

What do you think is accomplished by these continued attacks of people who voted differently to you?

Just stating what they are saying or posting on social media about the Eu army. Not my fault you still think they're sane and not as much a danger to us through politics than anything else this country has faced.