View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19221
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Okay, given I'm in the US I have no ideas how these went. I know there was a projection of anti-EU forces winning big in these elections so can someone who isn't dribbles who IS following all this give me a quick summary of what happened here?
    There were losses for the two big Pro-EU parties (Center-left and Center-right) that were almost entirely matched by gains from the Liberals and Greens. The Eurosceptic Right did win a few more seats but none of the three parties in it polled better than the Greens. The Eurosceptic Left lost a lot of seats as well.
    Keep in mind that not all of ECR (Conservative Eurosceptics) and GUE (Left-wing Eurosceptics) are Hard Eurosceptics either (many just call for reforms). The top four are all staunchly Pro-Eu Parties, and hold more than 500 out of 751 seats giving them a supermajority; all four parties were in talks already yesterday about a broad coalition.

    What can be expected is for the EU Parliament to keep on at the same pace with a few policy shifts to satisfy the Greens and Liberals (e.g. expect future trade agreements from the EU to have an environmental focus as well). The eurosceptics are too few and too fractious to matter. What WILL matter is how the EuroGroup will influence the Commission with its nominations and I will not be surprised at all if the first picks by several countries do NOT get confirmed by the Parliament.

    Also participation across the block increased by 8%

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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    And that is the "point" of Brexit - a tax haven with nukes and a UN veto; now, there are certainly other interests working to make it happen - the alt-right (that hates the EU), the nascent facists and would-be 21st Century Nazis, and the Russians, but while they're all putting weight behind Brexit for their own reasons, the clear motive seems to be what I've outlined above. (And before you judge, please note I'm not suggesting that this is an good plan for the hyperwealthy, just that that the controlling impulses seem clear.)
    I think we've said this several times earlier in this thread; ultimately what led to panic mode and started Brexit was when the EU started really discussing further tax regulation back in 2013-4. The EU Black List has been stamping tax havens left and right around the globe and its primary fault is its own blind spot for countries within the EU (Luxemburg, Malta, Cyprus and maybe even Ireland should all have been hit by the Black List as well but good luck with that).
    And the most hilarious part is, Brexit anti-globalism in the UK is significantly fueled by their hatred for their bankers especially after the financial crisis. Amazing how often the masses manage to vote against their very own interests.
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  2. #19222
    Stood in the Fire steristumpie's Avatar
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    The youtuber shitlord collective played their role brilliantly. Stayed out of the newly formed Brexit party. Disavowed any association with said Brexit party. Kept the media focused on their trolling, jokes and shitposts. Became the focus of the smear campaigns. UKIP took to the streets and shouted and screamed just as loud as the lefties did.

    Meanwhile Farage quietly and unopposed in the realm of public opinion slid in and claimed an easy effortless victory. This was masterfully planned and executed. Bravo.
    “The best way to win an argument is to begin by being right.” -Jill Ruckelshaus

  3. #19223
    Quote Originally Posted by steristumpie View Post
    The youtuber shitlord collective played their role brilliantly. Stayed out of the newly formed Brexit party. Disavowed any association with said Brexit party. Kept the media focused on their trolling, jokes and shitposts. Became the focus of the smear campaigns. UKIP took to the streets and shouted and screamed just as loud as the lefties did.

    Meanwhile Farage quietly and unopposed in the realm of public opinion slid in and claimed an easy effortless victory. This was masterfully planned and executed. Bravo.
    Farage underperformed. He ate up UKIP but it's looking like he hasn't done aswell as expected amongst Conservative and Labour voters.

    Don't get me wrong, the Brexit Party has done well but they haven't surprised anyone. They got 32% of the vote, we already knew that around a third of the country were Brexiteers so nothing has changed there. What has changed is that the vote share for parties trying to leave with a deal has collapsed, shifting the narrative to Revoke Vs WTO in a second referendum.

    All in all it was a much better night for Remain than it was for Leave no matter how many headlines you read today about a Farage victory.

  4. #19224
    Quote Originally Posted by steristumpie View Post
    The youtuber shitlord collective played their role brilliantly. Stayed out of the newly formed Brexit party. Disavowed any association with said Brexit party. Kept the media focused on their trolling, jokes and shitposts. Became the focus of the smear campaigns. UKIP took to the streets and shouted and screamed just as loud as the lefties did.

    Meanwhile Farage quietly and unopposed in the realm of public opinion slid in and claimed an easy effortless victory. This was masterfully planned and executed. Bravo.
    Brexit Party has polled below LibDem+Greens. I just don't see it as much of a victory. Greens are staunchly pro-EU.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  5. #19225

  6. #19226
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    So it looks like Labour might have finally got the message.

    McDonnell backing a public vote is huge.
    The issue is, can they force an election in any way? I assume they can wait for BoJo to be made PM and then go for a vote of no confidence and dare Tory remainers to choose.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  7. #19227
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The issue is, can they force an election in any way? I assume they can wait for BoJo to be made PM and then go for a vote of no confidence and dare Tory remainers to choose.
    The Tory MPs are already saying that they will take drastic action if anyone gets the Tory leadership and tries to force through a no-deal Brexit. That means voting against them in a no-confidence vote, and they only need a handful to do that and the government falls.

    You then get a general election with the Tories and Brexit party both standing for a no-deal, which should split the vote nicely. Labour will probably come out officially as a party of a second vote, and shore up their vote that way. Libs, Greens and Change UK will gather together a good set of votes, mainly from the centrist Tories that don't feel at home in their party anymore. But some from Labour as well, where people might not trust the message they put out (or it's still messy enough that they don't know what it is).

    Chances are nobody gets a majority, and you end up with a coalition of centrist parties and Labour. They come together on the basis of a second vote, and hopefully a move away from FPTP at the same time. Remain wins the second vote, Farage and dribbles call it a traitorous act and start ranting and raving. Nobody cares. In 5 years time we wonder how we ever got ourselves in this mess.
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  8. #19228
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The issue is, can they force an election in any way? I assume they can wait for BoJo to be made PM and then go for a vote of no confidence and dare Tory remainers to choose.
    It doesn't matter anyway, his office just clarified he was speaking in Labours Double Speak so he meant a GE whilst hoping people like me who haven't had any coffee yet and barely any sleep might mistake him for saying second ref.

    That aside I think what you outline is the only way to get a GE unless BoJo wants to pull a May, but you know, this time it will work because he's BoJo and she wasn't and he really is so monumentally arrogant to think that way

  9. #19229
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    The Tory MPs are already saying that they will take drastic action if anyone gets the Tory leadership and tries to force through a no-deal Brexit. That means voting against them in a no-confidence vote, and they only need a handful to do that and the government falls.
    Here is the thing. BoJo or whoever wins can just go through the motions of negotiation. No Deal after all is not an active choice; it is the default that happens by just kicking the can down the road until Macron tells Merkel to stuff it and votes against an extension. So I think that yes they might vote against their own party but if they do, they will only do so at the last hour.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  10. #19230
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Here is the thing. BoJo or whoever wins can just go through the motions of negotiation. No Deal after all is not an active choice; it is the default that happens by just kicking the can down the road until Macron tells Merkel to stuff it and votes against an extension. So I think that yes they might vote against their own party but if they do, they will only do so at the last hour.
    An extension is not the default, crashing out is the default. The line is going to be "reopen negotiations or we crash out" and our spineless MPs will be sit around hoping the EU swings in to rescue them from having to make a difficult choice, then we crash out because you didn't and we never asked for the extension.

    Brexit achieved, EU blamed, life goes on.

  11. #19231
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    An extension is not the default, crashing out is the default. The line is going to be "reopen negotiations or we crash out" and our spineless MPs will be sit around hoping the EU swings in to rescue them from having to make a difficult choice, then we crash out because you didn't and we never asked for the extension.

    Brexit achieved, EU blamed, life goes on.
    Yup that's what I said. No Deal happens by default when the extension ends. Heck BoJo can make half-hearted attempts at negotiations and even ask for an extension in October which will be denied (on account of it being a sham) and can then say he "tried". Would the Tory Remainers call him on that? Unless he tries for an unequivocal act to push for No Deal such as cutting the extension short, I don't see it.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  12. #19232
    Stood in the Fire steristumpie's Avatar
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    Look. I’m not British. Or even European.

    But if I were a Brexiteer, and seeing the results of the newest election, and knowing that voter turnout was dismally low in pro-Brexit areas, I would, against my principles (since a people’s vote already happened) welcome a second referendum and put an end to this once and for all. I’m pretty confident that results will again be, not an overwhelming, but a definitive leave.
    “The best way to win an argument is to begin by being right.” -Jill Ruckelshaus

  13. #19233
    Quote Originally Posted by steristumpie View Post
    Look. I’m not British. Or even European.

    But if I were a Brexiteer, and seeing the results of the newest election, and knowing that voter turnout was dismally low in pro-Brexit areas, I would, against my principles (since a people’s vote already happened) welcome a second referendum and put an end to this once and for all. I’m pretty confident that results will again be, not an overwhelming, but a definitive leave.
    I find it hilarious how Farage is demanding a seat at the negotiating table but NOT General Elections. This tells me he knows a GE would not go his way.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  14. #19234
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by steristumpie View Post
    But if I were a Brexiteer, and seeing the results of the newest election, and knowing that voter turnout was dismally low in pro-Brexit areas, I would, against my principles (since a people’s vote already happened) welcome a second referendum and put an end to this once and for all. I’m pretty confident that results will again be, not an overwhelming, but a definitive leave.
    And assuming it would happen, it would change nothing without deciding what kind of Brexit it's supposed to be. Britain is fucking around for over two years and have rejected every single idea they had. Saying "we want Brexit" again doesn't magically fix that, unless they immediately go for "no deal".

  15. #19235
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    And assuming it would happen, it would change nothing without deciding what kind of Brexit it's supposed to be. Britain is fucking around for over two years and have rejected every single idea they had. Saying "we want Brexit" again doesn't magically fix that, unless they immediately go for "no deal".
    I half expected May to pull out a referendum between No Deal and her deal (with no Remain option).
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  16. #19236
    Stood in the Fire steristumpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I find it hilarious how Farage is demanding a seat at the negotiating table but NOT General Elections. This tells me he knows a GE would not go his way.
    Well, for example, if a court awarded you $17 million in an inheritance dispute, and You now have a cool 17mil going into your bank account, and the losers want to appeal, wouldn’t you oppose that appeal?
    “The best way to win an argument is to begin by being right.” -Jill Ruckelshaus

  17. #19237
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Except even with the lack of permanent speed limits, your traffic fatalities are lower than the USA's by population or mileage. Also lower than Canada's, though to a lesser extent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate
    Which has probably more to do with a driving license costing about 2-2.5 grand in professional training before you're allowd to drive on your own than a lack of a speed limit.
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  18. #19238
    Quote Originally Posted by steristumpie View Post
    Well, for example, if a court awarded you $17 million in an inheritance dispute, and You now have a cool 17mil going into your bank account, and the losers want to appeal, wouldn’t you oppose that appeal?
    But that analogy is faulty. The European Elections are elections for the European parliament, not for government or for how the state itself interacts with the EU. It's a separate institution. It can be used as a gauge of the local state of governance but if it is to have an effect it can only have an effect through a GE. The Brexit party has won exactly no right yet for representation in UK politics because it has yet to compete in any UK election.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  19. #19239
    Quote Originally Posted by mythalworp, the burner View Post
    Kronik, the idiot, wrote

    He is just repeating the Labour party policy, which is to push for a GE then consider a second referendum in the event of a NO-deal scenario.

    Btw I am not sure how you think a massive victory for the Brexit party is somehow a vindication of an anti-brexit stance.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Did it not occur to you that he was just restating Labour's position, and the fault for not understanding his position lies entirely with you? Fucking moron.
    I love that you edited so you can make it more visible why you'll have this post erased and this yet another burner banned. And good god, you've been shitposting here for months, learn to use the quote function.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  20. #19240
    I am not sure - would not the low turnout for the EU elections in the UK regions that voted Leave be logical? As in, if someone voted Leave, got the result of Leave in the vote for Brexit years ago, and overseeing the country leaving the EU later this year - is not it logical that they would have little interest in the EU elections, because whoever is voted into the EU is just for a short period? Or did I misunderstand and the contention is over something else?

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