View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19321
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    Go on then, present some details, give some examples of things the UK public wanted stopped...

    Or name a restriction to freedom of movement... Who is excluded? Under what circumstances can someone be sent back whom it applies to?
    Look, I think I know what your point here is. People who voted Leave felt the UK was being flooded with immigrants and felt that leaving the EU would allow the UK to impose stricter controls on that. You seem to want to say that the UK have already been given controls over that - referencing an emergency brake. But it's the entire thing that this does not close the issue, it's the entire thing that people who in the end voted Leave felt like this was just something added on top of the general too-free policy and that this was not enough. The EU argued all the time that the four freedoms of movement were inseparable from each other, that this is fundamental to the EU and that all kinds of brakes are just for super-special purposes, temporary, etc.

    Now, is this what you wanted to say - that from your point of view, people voting Leave had no reason to vote Leave because they had things like an emergency brake? Or did you want to say something else?

    In any case, this remains about restrictions onto the freedom of movement, and I don't see how you can deny that this was a key question, arguably the most important.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The US is accomplishing jack shit with regards to China, mate. All Trump does is make a fool of himself. Rofl.
    Remember these words when the trade war ends with China altering their laws and / or making other concessions under pressure.
    Last edited by rda; 2019-05-25 at 09:33 AM.

  2. #19322
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    That means often EU cannot change fast enough to deal with modern challenges.
    I'm sure you have an example to back it up? Like privacy laws on the internet, maybe. Or the acceptance of LGBT rights throughout the EU member states...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Remember these words when the trade war ends with China altering their laws and / or making other concessions under pressure.
    You really aren't following the news, are you? Rofl. You're not winning that trade war, mate. You're losing it.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  3. #19323
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You really aren't following the news, are you? Rofl. You're not winning that trade war, mate. You're losing it.
    You created yourself a nice bubble. Read about the trade war, dear. Read what it is fought over, for example. I won't even ask why you are writing that "I" (meaning the US, although I am not the US, but fine) am "losing it", because I know what I am going to get - some stupid link from a clueless journalist that only now discovers that hey, there is that thing called the economy and hey, sometimes there are things there, and then quickly gets overwhelmed and goes back to his usual shtick of "yeah, let's talk about Trump now, he is an idiot, so his war is stupid too and he is losing it, I just know it". The reality is a little different, it just trickles down to you slowly because you choose to get to it through biased single-cell clueless media.

  4. #19324
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am still beyond pissed at that. I have had several friends in the UK who could not vote because their forms were never processed, even though they did everything in time. There should be heavy censure over this.
    And I am beyond happy at that...

    Just no. Foreigners from the EU shouldn't be able to vote in UK elections any more than people from Swaziland can.

    They should vote in their own damn country.

  5. #19325
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Now, is this what you wanted to say - that from your point of view, people voting Leave had no reason to vote Leave because they had things like an emergency brake? Or did you want to say something else?
    What I wanted to say was that those things they voted to change were so by design by the UK government, which could have done something about them but instead pretended the EU wouldn't let them. Leaving the EU made their problems worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    I won't even ask why you are writing that "I" (meaning the US, although I am not the US, but fine)
    He wrote "you" not "I".
    Do you need help finding a dictionary so you can look up the different meanings of "you"?

  6. #19326
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    What I wanted to say was that those things they voted to change were so by design by the UK government, which could have done something about them but instead pretended the EU wouldn't let them. Leaving the EU made their problems worse.
    I disagree. As I said, the EU viewed all added restrictions onto the freedom of movement as extraordinary and temporary. The people who voted Leave wanted complete control over the freedom of movement of people. The disagreement was fundamental.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    He wrote "you" not "I".
    Do you need help finding a dictionary so you can look up the different meanings of "you"?
    (He was referring to the US. I understood him perfectly well. I don't understand why you are bringing this up, this is a non-issue.)

  7. #19327
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    People who voted Leave felt the UK was being flooded with immigrants and felt that leaving the EU would allow the UK to impose stricter controls on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    The people who voted Leave wanted complete control over the freedom of movement of people. The disagreement was fundamental.
    You might need to update your opinion on this - as it's gradually become obvious that overall immigration into the UK will increase after Brexit, most leavers (outside of the UKIPpy "happy to be blatantly racist" branch) have rationalized that by now denying the vote was anything to do with immigration in the first place.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-25 at 10:15 AM.

  8. #19328
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    You might need to update your opinion on this - as it's gradually become obvious that overall immigration into the UK will increase after Brexit, most leavers (outside of the UKIPpy "happy to be blatantly racist" branch) have rationalized that by now denying the vote was anything to do with immigration in the first place.
    "Control" and "more migration" are not mutually exclusive.

    Control is about being able to adjust up and down according to needs of the moment.

    Difference between getting Polish workers because you need more workers and getting Polish workers just because they like UK salaries and can out-compete natives with lower demands.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-05-25 at 10:21 AM.

  9. #19329
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    I disagree. As I said, the EU viewed all added restrictions onto the freedom of movement as extraordinary and temporary. The people who voted Leave wanted complete control over the freedom of movement of people. The disagreement was fundamental.
    Can you list those those restrictions or provide a source or is your source som British tabloid? Maybe the Tory party?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    (He was referring to the US. I understood him perfectly well. I don't understand why you are bringing this up, this is a non-issue.)
    You made it an issue by pretending not to understand :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    "Control" and "more migration" are not mutually exclusive.

    Control is about being able to adjust up and down according to needs of the moment.

    Difference between getting Polish workers because you need more workers and getting Polish workers just because they like UK salaries and can out-compete natives with lower demands.
    The UK government could have done this, but they chose not to.
    They chose not to reduce immigration, and since there was not enough immigration from the EU they even brought immigrants in from all over the world in ever greater numbers.

    Since those immigrants are desperately needed the numbers won't go down in future.

    What you are doing is like pretending you could choose not to drink anything and thus vote to get rid of the clean water supply.
    Last edited by Noradin; 2019-05-25 at 10:34 AM.

  10. #19330
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And I am beyond happy at that...

    Just no. Foreigners from the EU shouldn't be able to vote in UK elections any more than people from Swaziland can.

    They should vote in their own damn country.
    Another bit of the real dribbles leaking through his cheeky chappy facade of the idiot Brexiteer. Rascist and fascist to the core. It's always a bit unnerving when this happens, I find. Like a clown suddenly throwing lurid insults at his audience.

    But we know you aren't happy about certain people having a voice, dribbles. The people that weren't eligible to vote in 2016 should be ignored, according to you. The people that voted remain should be ignored. The people that voted leave but only wanted a Norway style deal, should be ignored. The people that voted leave but have since changed their mind should be ignored.

    The only small minority of the people in this country that you think shouldn't be ignored are the ones that voted leave in 2016 and wanted to leave at any cost. Even if they are dead now. That's your sad, lonely little viewpoint summed up. You are so desperate to "win" that you are prepared to ignore any number of people to pretend that you have. I can't wait until Boris your saviour turns on you as his track-record shows he will. I reckon I will be able to hear the sound of your head exploding from here.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  11. #19331
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    Another bit of the real dribbles leaking through his cheeky chappy facade of the idiot Brexiteer. Rascist and fascist to the core. It's always a bit unnerving when this happens, I find. Like a clown suddenly throwing lurid insults at his audience.

    But we know you aren't happy about certain people having a voice, dribbles. The people that weren't eligible to vote in 2016 should be ignored, according to you. The people that voted remain should be ignored. The people that voted leave but only wanted a Norway style deal, should be ignored. The people that voted leave but have since changed their mind should be ignored.

    The only small minority of the people in this country that you think shouldn't be ignored are the ones that voted leave in 2016 and wanted to leave at any cost. Even if they are dead now. That's your sad, lonely little viewpoint summed up. You are so desperate to "win" that you are prepared to ignore any number of people to pretend that you have. I can't wait until Boris your saviour turns on you as his track-record shows he will. I reckon I will be able to hear the sound of your head exploding from here.
    You are being silly. If everyone is allowed to vote everywhere in the EU, how would say Germans feel if the UK government shipped over 17.4 million people, of a certain persuasion, there temporarily just to vote in their elections to further any UK government EU disintegration plans? I exaggerate of course but the point is valid.

    As for curbing Boris Johnsons pro EU feels, thats what our Nigel is getting so many votes for. With the Brexit party snapping at his Tory heels any thoughts of Boris moving in that direction will be moderated by those fears...

    Of course all this could have been avoided if sore loser remainers hadn't stirred the Brexit pot and honoured the result of the democratic 2016 referendum.

    You will be dragged kicking and squealing out of the EU, mark my words. Democracy insists on it...

  12. #19332
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You are being silly. If everyone is allowed to vote everywhere in the EU, how would say Germans feel if the UK government shipped over 17.4 million people, of a certain persuasion, there temporarily just to vote in their elections to further any UK government EU disintegration plans? I exaggerate of course but the point is valid.
    The EU elections are not for national politicians. Again, you are ignorant of this very simple fact.

    As for curbing Boris Johnsons pro EU feels, thats what our Nigel is getting so many votes for. With the Brexit party snapping at his Tory heels any thoughts of Boris moving in that direction will be moderated by those fears...
    Boris will need to get remainer MPs on board if he doesn't want to have to hold a GE by September.

    Of course all this could have been avoided if sore loser remainers hadn't stirred the Brexit pot and honoured the result of the democratic 2016 referendum.

    You will be dragged kicking and squealing out of the EU, mark my words. Democracy insists on it...
    I would like to remind you that without those "sore loser remainers" Theresa May would have signed the WA last year and it would have been ratified by now. And you would have been dragged kicking and screaming out of the EU under the WA terms that you hate so much.

  13. #19333
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    The EU elections are not for national politicians. Again, you are ignorant of this very simple fact.



    Boris will need to get remainer MPs on board if he doesn't want to have to hold a GE by September.



    I would like to remind you that without those "sore loser remainers" Theresa May would have signed the WA last year and it would have been ratified by now. And you would have been dragged kicking and screaming out of the EU under the WA terms that you hate so much.
    If Boris chooses the no deal route as I expect he will, he doesn't have to do anything. We leave without a deal. So, to extinguish any dying embers of hope that might remain for remainers, here is something for them to pick apart at their leisure :-

    A new prime minister intent on no deal Brexit can't be stopped by MPs

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-stopped-mps-0

    Democracy can and will be served...

  14. #19334
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    You are being silly. If everyone is allowed to vote everywhere in the EU, how would say Germans feel if the UK government shipped over 17.4 million people, of a certain persuasion, there temporarily just to vote in their elections to further any UK government EU disintegration plans? I exaggerate of course but the point is valid.
    So your point is that people who live and pay taxes in the UK should only be allowed to vote in the UK if they agree with your politics?

    Is that a Russian thing?
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-25 at 12:56 PM.

  15. #19335
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    So your point is that people who live and pay taxes in the UK should only be allowed to vote in the UK if they agree with your politics?

    Is that a Russian thing?
    No it should be reserved for British citizens that meet the accepted criteria and conditions to qualify so as to be counted as a part of the UK electorate.

  16. #19336
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No it should be reserved for British citizens that meet the accepted criteria and conditions to qualify so as to be counted as a part of the UK electorate.
    Except this vote isn't about the UK electorate. It's about the EU electorate.

    As it's a vote for the European parliament which is a body to represent European Union Citizens. (That is, any citizen of a EU nation).

    Otherwise you ought to be against someone from York who moves to London voting in London. They should vote in York.
    - Lars

  17. #19337
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    If Boris chooses the no deal route as I expect he will, he doesn't have to do anything. We leave without a deal. So, to extinguish any dying embers of hope that might remain for remainers, here is something for them to pick apart at their leisure :-

    A new prime minister intent on no deal Brexit can't be stopped by MPs

    https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...-stopped-mps-0

    Democracy can and will be served...
    Parliament can, and has, recently passed a law against the will of the government. Bojo's position as PM will be almost untenable if he wins the contest as it is, he will be very susceptible to a vote of no confidence. There is no guarantee that he would win the confidence vote he requires to establish his new cabinet (Corbyn would be given a chance to form a government in that case, if he fails then a snap GE would be called).

    Tick tock, Labour/LD/SNP coalition incoming Brexiteer tears will be so delicious.

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No it should be reserved for British citizens that meet the accepted criteria and conditions to qualify so as to be counted as a part of the UK electorate.
    Again. European Union election. Any EU citizen anywhere in the EU can vote in it so long as they are registered to vote there. The UK is a constituency within the EU, in UK politics terms.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-05-25 at 01:29 PM.

  18. #19338
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Except this vote isn't about the UK electorate. It's about the EU electorate.

    As it's a vote for the European parliament which is a body to represent European Union Citizens. (That is, any citizen of a EU nation).

    Otherwise you ought to be against someone from York who moves to London voting in London. They should vote in York.
    If it is an election held in the UK it therefore is a UK election. It was an election we shouldn't even have had and only participated in due to our weak limpet like Theresa May non leadership and the insistence of the EU, do they miss Nigel Farage that much? It should not have been open to any foreign EU voters, who soon may not have automatic rights to live in the UK with the ongoing consequence of their vote.

    York and London are both in the UK, where a British citizen casts their vote is determined by where they are registered on the electoral roll. Since the Brexit referendum the electoral roll should not have been open to foreign EU voters as part of the exit preparations.

    After Brexit it won't be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Parliament can, and has, recently passed a law against the will of the government. Bojo's position as PM will be almost untenable if he wins the contest as it is, he will be very susceptible to a vote of no confidence. There is no guarantee that he would win the confidence vote he requires to establish his new cabinet (Corbyn would be given a chance to form a government in that case, if he fails then a snap GE would be called).

    Tick tock, Labour/LD/SNP coalition incoming Brexiteer tears will be so delicious.



    Again. European Union election. Any EU citizen anywhere in the EU can vote in it so long as they are registered to vote there. The UK is a constituency within the EU, in UK politics terms.
    Considering the timetable, Tory leadership contest, with parliament soon off on summer holidays for months, running down the clock to the Oct 31st deadline will be no trouble at all for a no dealer PM, like Boris, intent on that path. Moreso with Farage back in the picture twisting his arm...

    So yeah tick tock back at ya baby!

  19. #19339
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    If it is an election held in the UK it therefore is a UK election.
    And what is this election foooor....
    Often updated... ?

  20. #19340
    This is an EU election. I understand you cannot fit more than one idea in your walnut-sized brain, but this is not a UK election. It is not a UK electoral roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Considering the timetable, Tory leadership contest, with parliament soon off on summer holidays for months, running down the clock to the Oct 31st deadline will be no trouble at all for a no dealer PM, like Boris, intent on that path. Moreso with Farage back in the picture twisting his arm...

    So yeah tick tock back at ya baby!
    Bojo is a coward though. He wants to get in No. 10, and stay there past the next election. A hard-liner position won't get him that.

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