View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19361
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    "population is not taken into account" is a really, really dangerous concept.
    I mean proportion is taken into account, just not directly. I mean they could have made a logarithmic scale to make it degressively proportional but the EU loves chances to have to seek consensus by trading favours between countries. Ultimately the core of the EU project is constructivism and thus it values forcing negotiation more so than just rules and regulations.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  2. #19362
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And yet, Estonia has a veto on anything concerning the treaties. Oh well, this is a discussion that is as old as the EC/EU. Fun to debate, but ultimately it seems to work out somehow.
    Of course, so that the larger countries can't team up to rule everything and ignore the needs of the smaller ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  3. #19363
    Herald of the Titans Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    "population is not taken into account" is a really, really dangerous concept.

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    Psshh... oh well, it could be worse. We could be the idiots crashing out of the EU.
    Well, i think voting based on national representatives is stupid anyway. There are politicians from other european countries i would rather vote than any of my national politicians. Voting them directly would eliminate this problem, and would actually make more sense. But our national parties would loose a bit of power...

  4. #19364
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Well, i think voting based on national representatives is stupid anyway. There are politicians from other european countries i would rather vote than any of my national politicians. Voting them directly would eliminate this problem, and would actually make more sense. But our national parties would loose a bit of power...
    The language barrier makes this just extremely hard. While I wouldn't care to vote for someone I couldn't have a conversation with I can see this being an issue for a good amount of voters.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  5. #19365
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Well, i think voting based on national representatives is stupid anyway. There are politicians from other european countries i would rather vote than any of my national politicians. Voting them directly would eliminate this problem, and would actually make more sense. But our national parties would loose a bit of power...
    There is a good amount of party and group discipline when it comes to votes in the Parliament, so you can pick the group you dislike the least. Unless you live in Hungary there is generally a healthy amount of choice to pick from.
    I think the logic is that when living abroad you still get to vote for your head of state and national parliament as it directly affects you, but for the EP and municipal elections you vote where you live. It might not work for you but I can see the wisdom in this.

  6. #19366
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    With a second referendum it's not just about Leave/Remain but seeing what people prefer out of No Deal/Hard/Soft/Remain. Even if the majority are still in favour of Leaving I strongly suspect that a moderate position including a Customs Union would be more palatable to the majority.
    I disagree. The majority position has been shown in these elections and it's not that the populace is hoping for a deal, more to the point it's become demonstrably unachievable in Parliament. It's 2nd Ref Vs WTO now and we should see the "main" parties shift to one or the other over the next month. The middle ground is gone and it's vae victus, woe to the conquered now.

  7. #19367
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    and it's vae victus, woe to the conquered now.
    Nice! I like that very much. Nothing like a bit of Latin to conjure up some apocalyptic imagery.

    Ya hear, Dribbles! No retreat, no surrender!

    Carpe vinum

  8. #19368
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I disagree. The majority position has been shown in these elections and it's not that the populace is hoping for a deal, more to the point it's become demonstrably unachievable in Parliament. It's 2nd Ref Vs WTO now and we should see the "main" parties shift to one or the other over the next month. The middle ground is gone and it's vae victus, woe to the conquered now.
    It isn't a zero sum game though, if the majority isn't in favour of scrapping Brexit then the middle ground is where there's probably a compromise that most people could live with. For all their ineptitude Labour probably have it right and some sort of custom union would get support as the majority's first or second choice.

  9. #19369
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Thank you, thank you. But not even I can take all the credit for the electoral map of the UK England looking the way it does today. You almost need a microscope to find the ever diminishing remain areas...
    Fixed that for you.

    Also, voting is still not done by the square mile.

  10. #19370
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Nice! I like that very much. Nothing like a bit of Latin to conjure up some apocalyptic imagery.

    Ya hear, Dribbles! No retreat, no surrender!

    Carpe vinum
    You sure you didn't mean Carpe Ginum. ;P

    Either way it doesn't make me happy to be seeing this but I think that's where we are at now. Parliament can't get a deal through and the public has been pushed to the extreme positions.

    At the very least the "80% voted for Brexit" is well and truly debunked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It isn't a zero sum game though, if the majority isn't in favour of scrapping Brexit then the middle ground is where there's probably a compromise that most people could live with. For all their ineptitude Labour probably have it right and some sort of custom union would get support as the majority's first or second choice.
    How does the Govt pass a deal now with no further negotiations, a No Deal PM and no majority in Parliament? The public rejected the middle ground this week, people want simple answers to complex problems and the major parties are too scared now to do anything but give them one.

  11. #19371
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I find it hilarious how Farage is demanding a seat at the negotiating table but NOT General Elections. This tells me he knows a GE would not go his way.
    He cannot have a seat though, it would be a clear conflict of interest to have him on the EU side of things (he is an MEP after all, not a British MP).

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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    BREXIT SHOCK: Boris Johnson would SHAKE UP Brussels 'by handing Farage a cabinet role'
    Wouldn't Farage need to be a MP to get anything more than a role as "coffee boy"?

  12. #19372
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    Also, voting is still not done by the square mile.
    And Wales.

    Every area in England and Wales, apart from London (which was skewed by EU foreigners voting), got more Brexit Party MEP's than any other Party. And those Scots, despite the huffing and puffing, will do as they are told...they adore us really and, like a reluctant lover, just play hard to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    He cannot have a seat though, it would be a clear conflict of interest to have him on the EU side of things (he is an MEP after all, not a British MP).

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    Wouldn't Farage need to be a MP to get anything more than a role as "coffee boy"?
    Nope, he could be PM tomorrow. Anyone who commands the confidence of the House of Commons can be PM, they don't need to be an MP. That would be unusual though and he might need to be made a Lord first...I've no objection to that though.
    Last edited by dribbles; 2019-05-27 at 08:44 PM.

  13. #19373
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And those Scots, despite the huffing and puffing, will do as they are told...they adore us really and, like a reluctant lover, just play hard to get.
    Really? Really?

    The "reluctant lover"?

    It's like #MeToo never happened.

  14. #19374
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    And those Scots, despite the huffing and puffing, will do as they are told...
    Hurr durr tick tock our Nigel derp derp "muh democracy", but only when it suits you, right ?

    Don't know if it's sad to consider a noticeable amount of people in England think like you on this matter, or to rejoice that their true face is showing and it will all blow up soon enough.
    Such lack of basic respect ...

  15. #19375
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    Nope, he could be PM tomorrow. Anyone who commands the confidence of the House of Commons can be PM, they don't need to be an MP. That would be unusual though and he might need to be made a Lord first...I've no objection to that though.
    While one merely needs to be a member of either House of Parliament to be appointed Prime Minister, convention dictates that the PM is a member of the Commons and leader of the majority party. When Douglas-Home (Baron Home) was made PM in 1963, he renounced his lordship and sought election as a member of the Commons.

    So while technically possible, it is constitutionally not possible. If you want Farage as PM, elect him in a couple of years time. His track record is pathetic though. He lost the last 7 elections he contested. Of course, you would also need to elect 326 BrP members to seats in the Commons for that to work. As neither BrP nor UKIP has had even a close miss at a seat in the last 3 general elections, unlikely to happen.

  16. #19376
    Herald of the Titans dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    While one merely needs to be a member of either House of Parliament to be appointed Prime Minister, convention dictates that the PM is a member of the Commons and leader of the majority party. When Douglas-Home (Baron Home) was made PM in 1963, he renounced his lordship and sought election as a member of the Commons.

    So while technically possible, it is constitutionally not possible. If you want Farage as PM, elect him in a couple of years time. His track record is pathetic though. He lost the last 7 elections he contested. Of course, you would also need to elect 326 BrP members to seats in the Commons for that to work. As neither BrP nor UKIP has had even a close miss at a seat in the last 3 general elections, unlikely to happen.
    No mention of the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury then? That may be the current recent convention, however these are unconventional times and constitutionally it is absolutely possible. He doesn't have to elect a single MP, all he has to do is command the confidence of the House of Commons. Not too difficult you might think considering how he obviously commands the confidence of the people of the UK who they are supposed to represent.

    Let's hope Parliament considers very carefully the results of these elections and the disconnect between the people and politicians.

    What we need is PM who can unite the country and the results yesterday show only Farage can do that...
    Last edited by dribbles; 2019-05-27 at 09:59 PM.

  17. #19377
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    No mention of the 3rd Marquess of Salisbury then? That may be the current recent convention, however these are unconventional times and constitutionally it is absolutely possible. He doesn't have to elect a single MP, all he has to do is command the confidence of the House of Commons. Not too difficult you might think considering how he obviously commands the confidence of the people of the UK who they are supposed to represent.

    Let's hope Parliament considers very carefully the results of these elections and the disconnect between the people and politicians.

    What we need is PM who can unite the country and the results yesterday show only Farage can do that...
    Well, if you only care about uniting 30% of the country, at least. Of course, the other 45 million can starve for all you care, right?

  18. #19378
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post

    What we need is PM who can unite the country and the results yesterday show only Farage can do that...
    More people signed the revoke A50 petition than voted the BrP.

    He holds no super majority, no overall national consensus and would likely see the immediate death of the Union.

  19. #19379
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    More people signed the revoke A50 petition than voted the BrP.

    He holds no super majority, no overall national consensus and would likely see the immediate death of the Union.
    Dribbles doesn't care about that. He couldn't give a shit about the country or the people that live in it. He just wants to watch it burn.

    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    all he has to do is command the confidence of the House of Commons.
    And become the leader of the government party. Lord Salisbury, as you noted, was the last PM to hold his full tenure as PM from the Lords. He was, however, the leader of the conservative party in the Lords when he was appointed Prime Minister in 1886. Before that, he was leader of the opposition for many years. He was not appointed PM from outside the Palace of Westminster. So what point were you trying to make?

    Farage will never be Prime Minister without his party winning over 326 seats in a general election. And if they did achieve such a lofty goal, I'm sure he would revert to form and flee to the US to brown-nose Donald Trump and shirk his responsibilities like he did in June 2016 declaring his job to be done.
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-05-27 at 10:54 PM.

  20. #19380
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler to Baby Sloths View Post
    Dribbles doesn't care about that. He couldn't give a shit about the country or the people that live in it. He just wants to watch it burn.
    Oh I've family members who he very much reminds me of, no feasible plan, no answer for the Irish border, no way of safeguarding the country's future.

    This country is straight up split on leave vs remain, and looking at the map, the European elections almost mirrored the referendum, albeit at an overall lower turnout.

    Time has not changed minds, if anything areas that felt strongly one way or the other have reinforced that belief.

    Proud of my little spot of yellow in a sea of teal tho.

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