[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[kaid]

Some of the rhetoric is amusing as hell to me. So china apparently had a fit when taiwan suggested that any protestor who feels endangered is welcome to come to taiwan if they no longer feel safe in hong kong. China promptly lost their shit about this. But China also claims taiwan is china so people in hong kong fleeing to taiwan should be seen as just moving from one state to another in the same country.

I see this a lot when you get mainland chinese people really talking trash about taiwan and get really salty when you remind them that according to china taiwan IS china so they would be trash talking themselves.

[Calfredd]

They are not though are they? Still heading here in their droves, some even risk swimming the channel to escape EU tyranny. There's a reason for that.

Carry on...

Because it is expensive in both time and money to move to a new country, find a new house, and find a new job.

[kaid]

Because it is expensive in both time and money to move to a new country, find a new house, and find a new job.

With the potential of fines/jail for not being able to relocate immediately. This likely winds up hitting a lot of UK citizens who live/work in europe as well as reciprocal measures likely will be enforced by the various countries of the EU in response to this. So just a massive shitshow on top of the other shitshow stuff that is going to happen.

[LeGin Tufnel]

These stupid predictions of apocalypse serve no one other than brexiteers who will make a lot of it when most of them don't materialize.

Ever the optimist.

Isn't there a Gramsci quote along these lines? Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.

The ironic thing being is that it's the BJ who's telling us to be optimistic. Believe harder. "Optimism on steroids" as Rees-Mogg put it. An attitude of mind can guarantee an outcome.

Of course

If optimism does not produce the desired results, then optimism itself has been sabotaged – not by the realists but by the pessimists, otherwise known as traitors, those with a negative outlook, those, for example, in the civil service, business, the BBC and all the main metropolitan centres who do not have the correct attitude to guarantee the final (impossible) outcome that Johnson and his cohorts desire, a cake-and-eat-it Brexit.

[Slant]

With the potential of fines/jail for not being able to relocate immediately. This likely winds up hitting a lot of UK citizens who live/work in europe as well as reciprocal measures likely will be enforced by the various countries of the EU in response to this. So just a massive shitshow on top of the other shitshow stuff that is going to happen.

This is correct. And this needs to be widely known. If the UK wants to play hardball, they will force the EU to play tit for tat. This is real lives being affected by some dunce in 10 Downing St not realisting he has no hand to play. And everyone in the UK being too fucking polite to tell him outright that he's not at Eton and this isn't debate club pretend PM where you can afford to represent a bullshit viewpoint if only it gets you enough debate points to win the game.

The EU will react to this in the same manner they reacted to the US imposing tariffs. They will reciprocate in kind, in this case, invalidate any resident and/or working permits for UK citizens in the EU area. Gibraltar? Royally fucked at that stage. It's not even a joke at that point.

And also, as is the nature of these things... we're now in that part of the news cycle that I mentally call "let's see just how badly it can be..." where everyday is just a new low for what you thought couldn't become any stupider:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9070971.html

Boris Johnson news: UK to pull officials from EU meetings as Merkel rules out PM’s backstop demands

This isn't me making up shit, this is Merkel not even breaking out a sweat stating what is obvious to everyone on the continent. Like... the idea of RoI implementing hard borders on behalf of the EU? In the case of a no-deal that's not even controversial. Not in the RoI, not in any other member state of the EU. The UK is the only place on this fucking planet that thinks that's even debatable or something to threaten the RoI with. No, it isn't.

Here's what the Americans have to say about it:



That's like the UK's insurance policy if shit goes down. And the US says in no uncertain terms that nope, that's not something they will reward with a trade deal.

And a cynical, conspiracy theorist part of me thinks... what if all of this is a plot to demonstrate how stupid it is and revoking A50 was the plan all along? Fat chance of that being reality, because reality goes way shitter when I think stuff like that, but who knows... if it is, I'll eat my hat and apologize to a number of people on here.

[mvaliz]

My appologies if this has already been linked earlier in the thread, but:
https://www.rte.ie/news/newslens/201...t-beach-party/

Dutch are going to throw a massive beach-party on Brexit eve

Thousands of people have signed up on Facebook to a Dutch beach party for Brexit, featuring food from across the European Union to mark Britain's departure.

Created by media worker Ron Toekook, the event calls for partygoers to meet at the seaside village of Wijk aan Zee near Amsterdam on 31 October, the date Britain is meant to leave.

More than 7,000 people have already said they will attend, while 52,000 others are interested.

"It will be a nice goodbye to a good friend who is going on an exciting adventure, but is perhaps not too bright," Mr Toekook told the Dutch news agency ANP.

The party will involve "sitting in a deck chair with Dutch chips, French wine and German beer, watching Britain as it closes itself off."

"If there is enough interest there may be a band that can play... 'We'll Meet Again'."

Other suggestions for songs that could be played include single "Britain Come Back" sung by Dutch novelty boy band "Breunion Boys".

Mr Toekook said the party was a natural step for the Netherlands, which has had centuries of close cultural, trade and political links with Britain.

With their economies still closely intertwined, the Dutch have made major preparations in case Britain crashes out of the EU without a divorce deal on 31 October.

[Forogil]

The EU will react to this in the same manner they reacted to the US imposing tariffs. They will reciprocate in kind, in this case, invalidate any resident and/or working permits for UK citizens in the EU area.

Doing it for any resident and/or working permit would be stupid by the EU.

A better option is to first offer EU-citizenship to the ones that are useful.

[Mayhem]

Fucking knew it, Tories are setting up to say it's ALL the EU's fault for anything that happens to Little England after they spat their dummy out... Fucking Tories.

"demonstrate a degree of flexibility" about what? Flexibility about the integrity of the single market?

[Crispin]

I didn't say I was optimistic. That's different from believing every piece of nonsense the Guardian and the Indy come up with.

It should be obvious to a rational perspective that those papers are aping the successful commercial strategy of the Daily Mail and trying to whip up irrational panic, the only difference being that they are doing it with regard to Brexit and Climate Change rather than foreigners.

This is a different thing from joining the Tories in their massive delusional shitverse.

You're being optimistic. People lost their shit at the border in hour-long queues, when Denmark imposed a temporary border control during the refugee crisis. It will however be nothing compared to Brexit. I get the whole "prepare for the worst, hope for the best", but currently the UK is just hoping for the best.

[Gibblewink]

I'm pretty sure the EU won't reciprocate the UK's nonsense. Kicking out employees, breaking up families, disrupting work at universities and much more just because a bunch of incompetent bunglers are trying to make a point is hardly sensible action. I expect there will be temporary measures to protect current residents from the UK, but future visits, be they for pleasure, studying or work are another matter.

[Crispin]

I'm pretty sure the EU won't reciprocate the UK's nonsense. Kicking out employees, breaking up families, disrupting work at universities and much more just because a bunch of incompetent bunglers are trying to make a point is hardly sensible action. I expect there will be temporary measures to protect current residents from the UK, but future visits, be they for pleasure, studying or work are another matter.

You might be correct, this is the danish information site for brits living in Denmark

http://uim.dk/brexit/brexit-how-does...ing-in-denmark

[Pann]

You're being optimistic. People lost their shit at the border in hour-long queues, when Denmark imposed a temporary border control during the refugee crisis. It will however be nothing compared to Brexit. I get the whole "prepare for the worst, hope for the best", but currently the UK is just hoping for the best.

Yeah, Operation Yellowhammer is like well optimistic and talks about nothing but the sunny uplands we'll all be enjoying come November!

- - - Updated - - -

A Yougov poll shows that the majority of Brits oppose a Government of National Unity, unsurprisingly the idea is least popular among Tory and leave voters.


None of the suggested candidates for temporary PM are popular with the public with Clarke seen as the best/least worst. 15% think Corbyn would be a good choice whilst 63% think he would not, so perhaps Swinson was on to something.


https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...national-unity

Surely this is another another nail in the coffin for this proposal?

[Slant]

Doing it for any resident and/or working permit would be stupid by the EU.

A better option is to first offer EU-citizenship to the ones that are useful.

We're not into slavery, so we pretty much offer EU citizenship to anyone who's eligible. As for "usefulness", they're human beings, so how about you don't treat them like machines for a factory. As for it would be "stupid by the EU", yeah... it's not like it's the EU's choice, is it...

[Muzjhath]

None of the suggested candidates for temporary PM are popular with the public with Clarke seen as the best/least worst. 15% think Corbyn would be a good choice whilst 63% think he would not, so perhaps Swinson was on to something.


https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...national-unity

It's almost like Swinson was suggesting politically dead candidates for a reason. They aren't there to placate a base. They are fairly disliked by most. They are obvious caretakers there for a single reason.
Which is what you want. Which can be supported from all sides are more easily. Instead of handing it over to a political figure who's not "dead".

Surely this is another another nail in the coffin for this proposal?

[Lynarii]

A Yougov poll shows that the majority of Brits oppose a Government of National Unity, unsurprisingly the idea is least popular among Tory and leave voters.


None of the suggested candidates for temporary PM are popular with the public with Clarke seen as the best/least worst. 15% think Corbyn would be a good choice whilst 63% think he would not, so perhaps Swinson was on to something.

Surely this is another another nail in the coffin for this proposal?

It's simply too late for this proposal. If the Remain side wanted to rally behind a specific individual they needed to start building that and supporting that either during the original referendum, or practically immediately afterwards. You can't just pick a name at the 11th hour, declare "Our savior!" and expect everyone to start cheering, and unfortunately that's what the proposal seems to be hoping for.

Say what you want about Farage or BoJo (and I have nothing good to say about either man) but people know who they are and what they are trying to do. On the remain side you have a lot of people who aren't super well known, some who are known but haven't had the support to make a difference, and Corbyn who is known and supported, but nobody seems to really know what he's even trying to do.

Nobody stands out as THE person who can represent the side.

[Slant]

I'm pretty sure the EU won't reciprocate the UK's nonsense. Kicking out employees, breaking up families, disrupting work at universities and much more just because a bunch of incompetent bunglers are trying to make a point is hardly sensible action. I expect there will be temporary measures to protect current residents from the UK, but future visits, be they for pleasure, studying or work are another matter.

It's happening. It has to happen. If there is no deal, the UK will be a third country and as such UK citizens will need to be transitioned over to third country status. With all the fun glory that getting a residence and working permit entails.

Note: This letter was obviously sent before the extension, but expect letters like this to be sent out again. Bureaucracy is grinding its wheels.

[Pann]

It's almost like Swinson was suggesting politically dead candidates for a reason. They aren't there to placate a base. They are fairly disliked by most. They are obvious caretakers there for a single reason.
Which is what you want. Which can be supported from all sides are more easily. Instead of handing it over to a political figure who's not "dead".

Surely this is another another nail in the coffin for this proposal?

Neither Clarke nor Harman are politically dead (whatever that might mean), Swinson suggested them as they are, shall we say, less controversial than Corbyn and are by and large respected on both sides of the house. However the problem remains that it will be extremely difficult for a Tory to vote a Lab PM in to No. 10 and vice versa.

[Muzjhath]

Neither Clarke nor Harman are politically dead (whatever that might mean), Swinson suggested them as they are, shall we say, less controversial than Corbyn and are by and large respected on both sides of the house. However the problem remains that it will be extremely difficult for a Tory to vote a Lab PM in to No. 10 and vice versa.

With politically dead I mean that they are elder figures of the party they represent but not really popular at large or people who can activate a base or nation. They are caretakers and figures of respect. Not movers or things. Which is what you want for that thing. Which is far easier to swallow for the opposition to support in the deal. Yes, it'd still be hard to swallow to vote someone from the "wrong" party into power. I know that in Sweden where the Sweden Democrats ruined parlamentary praxis in budget voting which led to an agreement between the major parties so that it couldn't be hijacked again that way which was hated and stupid grassroot movements who don't understand governing good ruined (Decemberöverenskommelsen) due to political side picking.
What I mean with the expression I used is that they are mostly, at large, unpopular figures. Even if they might be liked in their respective seats or whatever. Might be in dead boroughs that'd vote in a tory/labor empty chair to parliament. My point stands. They aren't active political figures who'd go out and inflame passions in the masses. True, Harman might be, I'm not sure. However with some things she seems to have said it seems she has a lot of people who dislike her. Clarke has his own skeletons.

And yes, they are less controversial than Corbyn. That's the point. Nor are either a leader of their party even if Harman has held opposition leader chairs. But not picking the leader matters. And being unable to swallow voting for that for the stability of the nation is not a fucking good sign. Swinson suggested them because they aren't active figures that'd be people to point to in a GE, or with large personal stakes on the GE scene. Thus "dead".

True, this is all too late. Should have been talked about over a year ago when Theresa Mays deal started to burn in parliament. But that's a different story.

[Twdft]

A Yougov poll shows that the majority of Brits oppose a Government of National Unity,

Not really surprising that a deeply divided nation can't agree on one.

[Northern Goblin]

It's almost like Swinson was suggesting politically dead candidates for a reason. They aren't there to placate a base. They are fairly disliked by most. They are obvious caretakers there for a single reason.
Which is what you want. Which can be supported from all sides are more easily. Instead of handing it over to a political figure who's not "dead".

Surely this is another another nail in the coffin for this proposal?

She suggested the mother and father of the house on the basis that they could get the most support within Parliament to form a GoNU due to being well liked and respected through their many years on the benches.

That they're also two of the least likeliest people to abuse such a position for matters other than those pertaining to why such a government was formed is a welcome bonus.