View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19721
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    The irony would be funny. That those that hated europe for so long get spooked by Brexit and Brown people that instead of fighting with each other they accidentally become the biggest push for United states of Europe to keep their pockets lined and brown people out.

  2. #19722
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well then... "against our own interests" is a subjective thing, really. We've acquired a deep and very strong distate for social benefits and all the stigma associated with it. Better to work a badly paid job than... leech of the state. And yes, that's the common phrase when talking about these issues.

    Wow, that's how we feel about social services in America.
    .

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  3. #19723
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    If the definition of racism is the lack of tolerance and discrimination of ethnic minorites, there is no organisation on earth more racist than the EU. Once the British leave the EU will there be a single MEP left that's non white? Or are you saying that the whole EU racist movement is doomed to fail? In which case I'd agree.

    In the meantime congratulations to the ethnically diverse and tolerant Brexit party for the election of their first MP in Peterborough. Oh oopsie, it hasn't happened yet has it. Oh well gratz then in advance for later today...the first of many

  4. #19724
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Wow, that's how we feel about social services in America.
    Yes, well, the difference is, if life fucks you over, we still have it... nobody's too proud to starve over here, there's a limit to a poor man's pride.

    Also, you tend to rely on charity a lot more. I'd rather ask the state for my entitled social security than beg others for mercy.
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  5. #19725
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    To be fair, Fidesz and PiS were never hard Eurosceptics. They just want the EU not to look that hard at what they are doing at home. Salvini is not a hard Eurosceptic either, he cannot afford to be because there is no appetite for leaving the EU or the Euro in Italy. Only Le Pen was a traditional hard Eurosceptic and even she completely dropped the rhetoric due to the car crash in slow motion that is Brexit.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2019-06-06 at 05:19 AM.
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  6. #19726
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    QFT.

    The idea of an international nationalistic co-op is laughable on so many levels, I wonder if Le-Pen wants to welcome all the immigrants that Salvini wants to send further into Europe. Nationalistic parties are pretty much like Trump, them first and fuck everyone else.

    I guess the Axis powers is a good example of how well that shit works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Wow, that's how we feel about social services in America.
    Wrong, in America you feel for paying overprices for medicine and otherwise let cooporations screw you over, while watching your countrymen die in the gutter.

  7. #19727
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".
    Oh, but there is. I count myself a European nationalist. I want to live in a country called Europe.

  8. #19728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    QFT.

    The idea of an international nationalistic co-op is laughable on so many levels, I wonder if Le-Pen wants to welcome all the immigrants that Salvini wants to send further into Europe. Nationalistic parties are pretty much like Trump, them first and fuck everyone else.

    I guess the Axis powers is a good example of how well that shit works out.
    I still find nationalists in Europe to be really weird. Do UK nationalists support Welsh, Irish, or Scottish nationalism? Or is that bad nationalism? Would Spanish nationalists support Catalan independence? Or Italian nationalists support South Tyrol rejoining Austria? Do French nationalists want to annex Wallonia and western Switzerland because there are french speaking people living there?

    Where does the nationalism line stop exactly? Because basically every country in Europe is a combination of different cultural groups and a good number of them don't contain their entire cultural group(French and Dutch for example).

  9. #19729
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Where does the nationalism line stop exactly? Because basically every country in Europe is a combination of different cultural groups and a good number of them don't contain their entire cultural group(French and Dutch for example).
    As no major modern nationalist parties want wars with neighbors, that limits "nationalism line" to existing borders.

  10. #19730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    As no major modern nationalist parties want wars with neighbors, that limits "nationalism line" to existing borders.
    But how does it work for different cultures within a nation?

    I remember Spanish nationalism being rather bad for the Basque and Catalan people.

  11. #19731
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    But how does it work for different cultures within a nation?

    I remember Spanish nationalism being rather bad for the Basque and Catalan people.
    Obviously Spanish nationalists believe that their country should be kept as is (as do UK nationalists), while Catalan nationalists believe they should be independent (as do Scottish nationalists).

  12. #19732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Obviously Spanish nationalists believe that their country should be kept as is (as do UK nationalists), while Catalan nationalists believe they should be independent (as do Scottish nationalists).
    Well, no, when Spain was ruled by Spanish nationalists they thought all of Spain should be Spanish, including efforts to erase Catalan and Basque cultures. That's not keeping it the same, that's enforcing a national cultural identity on the whole country even though the country itself is multicultural.

    If I was in Europe and part of a minority culture in a nation with nationalism on the rise I'd be very concerned right now. Don't blame the Scottish for looking at that "leave the UK" button a bit more lately.
    Last edited by Wyrt; 2019-06-06 at 08:57 AM.

  13. #19733
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Well, no, when Spain was ruled by Spanish nationalists they thought all of Spain should be Spanish, including efforts to erase Catalan and Basque cultures. That's not keeping it the same, that's enforcing a national cultural identity on the whole country even though the country itself is multicultural.
    "As is" as in "in current borders", not necessarily "in exactly same cultural mix" (nationalists tend to prefer more homogeneous cultures, especially when some cultures are actively separatist).

  14. #19734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    "As is" as in "in current borders", not necessarily "in exactly same cultural mix" (nationalists tend to prefer more homogeneous cultures, especially when some cultures are actively separatist).
    "Nationalism for me, but not for you" seems to be the European nationalist motto then.

  15. #19735
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Obviously Spanish nationalists believe that their country should be kept as is (as do UK nationalists), while Catalan nationalists believe they should be independent (as do Scottish nationalists).
    No, a nationalist believes that all cultures and identities (ethnic or otherwise) beyond the one they believe is the NATIONAL culture should be suppressed or assimilated. Thus in states that have naturally and historically hosted multipled cultures or ethnic identities, a nationalist does not simply seek the preservation of the status quo. It's in the definition of their ideology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    "Nationalism for me, but not for you" seems to be the European nationalist motto then.
    See Nationalism is majoritarian and suppression of minorities is not ideologically dissonant for it. You are maybe confusing it with Souverainism
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  16. #19736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    See Nationalism is majoritarian and suppression of minorities is not ideologically dissonant for it. You are maybe confusing it with Souverainism
    Ah, cool, I figured there was another word for it since nationalism really wouldn't fit with some of the independence movements.

  17. #19737
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Oh, but there is. I count myself a European nationalist. I want to live in a country called Europe.
    Oh, I'm aware of it. But you have to convince them of it. And for some reason, you don't strike me as the idiot nationalist. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't care, though, as long as everyone gives the EU a fair shot, we'll try this puppy out once and for all. If it fails we can continue to bash each others heads in afterwards.

    I have my doubts it'll fail, though. Everyone's benefitting from cooperation too much.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    See Nationalism is majoritarian and suppression of minorities is not ideologically dissonant for it. You are maybe confusing it with Souverainism
    Are you making up shit now?

    I mean, if anyone's good at making up shit about politics, it's the Greek... but I think this is new and you need to explain it to the people like me that don't have philosophy injected into them at birth...
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  18. #19738
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    I still find nationalists in Europe to be really weird. Do UK nationalists support Welsh, Irish, or Scottish nationalism? Or is that bad nationalism? Would Spanish nationalists support Catalan independence? Or Italian nationalists support South Tyrol rejoining Austria? Do French nationalists want to annex Wallonia and western Switzerland because there are french speaking people living there?

    Where does the nationalism line stop exactly? Because basically every country in Europe is a combination of different cultural groups and a good number of them don't contain their entire cultural group(French and Dutch for example).
    It's normal to be confused because by definition the nationalism in Europe/EU is an contradiction.

    Look at this way. We don't want the Polish in West Europe so are we going to work with the Polish racist to kick out the polish? Hell no, no way that the Polish government would accept that.

    The idea is was that all sides hate Muslims and dislike the EU

  19. #19739
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    "Nationalism for me, but not for you" seems to be the European nationalist motto then.
    It's really mostly about identity. It's how the nations in Europe became nations. At some point you decided that the city over the river ain't that bad and it's really the French both of you hate more.

    So now, we're in the process of deciding the French ain't that bad, as long as we all collectively hate on Russia. I mean, if you detach emotions from it, nationalism is a necessary step in nationbuilding. Italians are vastly different from Germans, but in comparison to the Japanese, they're practically twins that just like vanilla instead of chocolate ice and the differences ain't all that bad, really. Once you come to think about it.
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  20. #19740
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Are you making up shit now?

    I mean, if anyone's good at making up shit about politics, it's the Greek... but I think this is new and you need to explain it to the people like me that don't have philosophy injected into them at birth...
    It's a French word actually and most popular there. The ideology of sovereignty, largely defined by its opposition to any form of federalism.
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