View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
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  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #19921
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    Labour-run Welsh government switches policy on Brexit to back staying in EU

    https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2019-...uropean-union/

    http://record.assembly.wales/Plenary/5662#A51426 <<< Welsh Assembly session report, including the statement

    Scotland was of course the first to congratulate them for their new course...
    One begins to wonder... when everyone in the Union is against leaving the EU except England... who's risking a break up of their so sacred union? Will they blame Scotland, Wales and NI or will they admit that the English broke up the union?
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  2. #19922
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    You silly dutch person. Don't you realise that British (and before that English) defeats never happened. It is all glorious victories for the honour of God, England and St George!

    (At least that's how School History is taught, even 1066 is sometimes twisted into a Victory for the English people at times)
    We should just go and capture British flag-ship again.
    Conservatism and its off-shoots are the most rotten idealogies to ever exist in human history.

  3. #19923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    One begins to wonder... when everyone in the Union is against leaving the EU except England... who's risking a break up of their so sacred union? Will they blame Scotland, Wales and NI or will they admit that the English broke up the union?
    The English admit to failure? Never.

  4. #19924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Btw completely expected yet happy news:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...KCN1T61AM?il=0

    An organized eurosceptic bloc is DOA.
    Totally what we predicted, toddlers struggle to play nice when they have to share toys. The best part is all those votes are now wasted and other fractions can nitpick the normal complaints people had and run with it, cause nobody in politics cares who had or said it first only that something is done.

    Good job people like dribbles splintering your opposition into a powerless block loool

  5. #19925
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Totally what we predicted, toddlers struggle to play nice when they have to share toys. The best part is all those votes are now wasted and other fractions can nitpick the normal complaints people had and run with it, cause nobody in politics cares who had or said it first only that something is done.

    Good job people like dribbles splintering your opposition into a powerless block loool
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  6. #19926
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    The irony would be funny. That those that hated europe for so long get spooked by Brexit and Brown people that instead of fighting with each other they accidentally become the biggest push for United states of Europe to keep their pockets lined and brown people out.

  7. #19927
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Well then... "against our own interests" is a subjective thing, really. We've acquired a deep and very strong distate for social benefits and all the stigma associated with it. Better to work a badly paid job than... leech of the state. And yes, that's the common phrase when talking about these issues.

    Wow, that's how we feel about social services in America.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

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  8. #19928
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    If the definition of racism is the lack of tolerance and discrimination of ethnic minorites, there is no organisation on earth more racist than the EU. Once the British leave the EU will there be a single MEP left that's non white? Or are you saying that the whole EU racist movement is doomed to fail? In which case I'd agree.

    In the meantime congratulations to the ethnically diverse and tolerant Brexit party for the election of their first MP in Peterborough. Oh oopsie, it hasn't happened yet has it. Oh well gratz then in advance for later today...the first of many

  9. #19929
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Wow, that's how we feel about social services in America.
    Yes, well, the difference is, if life fucks you over, we still have it... nobody's too proud to starve over here, there's a limit to a poor man's pride.

    Also, you tend to rely on charity a lot more. I'd rather ask the state for my entitled social security than beg others for mercy.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
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  10. #19930
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    To be fair, Fidesz and PiS were never hard Eurosceptics. They just want the EU not to look that hard at what they are doing at home. Salvini is not a hard Eurosceptic either, he cannot afford to be because there is no appetite for leaving the EU or the Euro in Italy. Only Le Pen was a traditional hard Eurosceptic and even she completely dropped the rhetoric due to the car crash in slow motion that is Brexit.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2019-06-06 at 05:19 AM.

  11. #19931
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".

    In which case, they can't be Eurosceptic anymore. I'd probably just hang myself if I was one of them. It's all so pointless.
    QFT.

    The idea of an international nationalistic co-op is laughable on so many levels, I wonder if Le-Pen wants to welcome all the immigrants that Salvini wants to send further into Europe. Nationalistic parties are pretty much like Trump, them first and fuck everyone else.

    I guess the Axis powers is a good example of how well that shit works out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Wow, that's how we feel about social services in America.
    Wrong, in America you feel for paying overprices for medicine and otherwise let cooporations screw you over, while watching your countrymen die in the gutter.

  12. #19932
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Funny how racists can't cooperate with other nations' racists. It's as if the whole movement is doomed to fail. I wager we'll only see a far-right bloc once they decide there is a thing as "European nationalism".
    Oh, but there is. I count myself a European nationalist. I want to live in a country called Europe.

  13. #19933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    QFT.

    The idea of an international nationalistic co-op is laughable on so many levels, I wonder if Le-Pen wants to welcome all the immigrants that Salvini wants to send further into Europe. Nationalistic parties are pretty much like Trump, them first and fuck everyone else.

    I guess the Axis powers is a good example of how well that shit works out.
    I still find nationalists in Europe to be really weird. Do UK nationalists support Welsh, Irish, or Scottish nationalism? Or is that bad nationalism? Would Spanish nationalists support Catalan independence? Or Italian nationalists support South Tyrol rejoining Austria? Do French nationalists want to annex Wallonia and western Switzerland because there are french speaking people living there?

    Where does the nationalism line stop exactly? Because basically every country in Europe is a combination of different cultural groups and a good number of them don't contain their entire cultural group(French and Dutch for example).

  14. #19934
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Where does the nationalism line stop exactly? Because basically every country in Europe is a combination of different cultural groups and a good number of them don't contain their entire cultural group(French and Dutch for example).
    As no major modern nationalist parties want wars with neighbors, that limits "nationalism line" to existing borders.

  15. #19935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    As no major modern nationalist parties want wars with neighbors, that limits "nationalism line" to existing borders.
    But how does it work for different cultures within a nation?

    I remember Spanish nationalism being rather bad for the Basque and Catalan people.

  16. #19936
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    But how does it work for different cultures within a nation?

    I remember Spanish nationalism being rather bad for the Basque and Catalan people.
    Obviously Spanish nationalists believe that their country should be kept as is (as do UK nationalists), while Catalan nationalists believe they should be independent (as do Scottish nationalists).

  17. #19937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Obviously Spanish nationalists believe that their country should be kept as is (as do UK nationalists), while Catalan nationalists believe they should be independent (as do Scottish nationalists).
    Well, no, when Spain was ruled by Spanish nationalists they thought all of Spain should be Spanish, including efforts to erase Catalan and Basque cultures. That's not keeping it the same, that's enforcing a national cultural identity on the whole country even though the country itself is multicultural.

    If I was in Europe and part of a minority culture in a nation with nationalism on the rise I'd be very concerned right now. Don't blame the Scottish for looking at that "leave the UK" button a bit more lately.
    Last edited by Wyrt; 2019-06-06 at 08:57 AM.

  18. #19938
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Well, no, when Spain was ruled by Spanish nationalists they thought all of Spain should be Spanish, including efforts to erase Catalan and Basque cultures. That's not keeping it the same, that's enforcing a national cultural identity on the whole country even though the country itself is multicultural.
    "As is" as in "in current borders", not necessarily "in exactly same cultural mix" (nationalists tend to prefer more homogeneous cultures, especially when some cultures are actively separatist).

  19. #19939
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    "As is" as in "in current borders", not necessarily "in exactly same cultural mix" (nationalists tend to prefer more homogeneous cultures, especially when some cultures are actively separatist).
    "Nationalism for me, but not for you" seems to be the European nationalist motto then.

  20. #19940
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Obviously Spanish nationalists believe that their country should be kept as is (as do UK nationalists), while Catalan nationalists believe they should be independent (as do Scottish nationalists).
    No, a nationalist believes that all cultures and identities (ethnic or otherwise) beyond the one they believe is the NATIONAL culture should be suppressed or assimilated. Thus in states that have naturally and historically hosted multipled cultures or ethnic identities, a nationalist does not simply seek the preservation of the status quo. It's in the definition of their ideology.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    "Nationalism for me, but not for you" seems to be the European nationalist motto then.
    See Nationalism is majoritarian and suppression of minorities is not ideologically dissonant for it. You are maybe confusing it with Souverainism

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