[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Noradin]

Because those are inhumane labour practices. I mean we got rid of repeated 1-year contracts, this one is a whole different kind of exploitation. I wonder, what would happen if the employee said "Great, I'd like to help, but I'm already engaged in this other job, because I need to pay rent"? He'd probably get fired, right? How is that even sustainable if you ignore labour protection?

Sorry, seems the rhetorical nature of my question was still not obvious enough xD

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I understand how crossing borders is a foreign concept to someone living on an island, but for continental Europeans living near borders, this is reality. And for them it is actually very normal to buy from across the "border". The borders are gone. They buy wherevery they want to buy for whatever reason they like. That is consumer friendly. That you dismiss my examples doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just means you have no idea how border people think. You have no idea whatsoever. It's sad that you even think yourself qualified to comment on anything outside the UK. And I'm not even getting into the idiocy about the EU not having earth on plugs. Do you think electrics work differently in the EU? That somehow we can make electric power work physically different by EU regulation? Goddamn, you are absolutely bonkers.

You must understand, he never left the UK ever before, and he thinks everyone ought to be just like him.

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I have already done so

No, you didn't.
You made an unsubstantiated claim about some company that allengedly exists but which you couldn't name when asked.

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I am not deflecting anything.

You are, it is your standard modus operandi.
We are used to it by now.

[Kronik85]

Employees have additional rights from workers one such right is to be able to request flexible working hours and they are also entitled to time off in emergencies.

You can request flexible working hours, that doesn't mean you have the right to flexible working hours or will be given them.

[Fuiking]

I understand how crossing borders is a foreign concept to someone living on an island, but for continental Europeans living near borders, this is reality. And for them it is actually very normal to buy from across the "border". The borders are gone. They buy wherevery they want to buy for whatever reason they like. That is consumer friendly. That you dismiss my examples doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Just means you have no idea how border people think. You have no idea whatsoever. It's sad that you even think yourself qualified to comment on anything outside the UK. And I'm not even getting into the idiocy about the EU not having earth on plugs. Do you think electrics work differently in the EU? That somehow we can make electric power work physically different by EU regulation? Goddamn, you are absolutely bonkers.

Totally right, some family members (who are closer to the Belgian border) actually buy there groceries and fuel is Belgium, back in ye olde days you couldnt do that, try sitting in a border crossing for 1hour+

[Muzjhath]

Totally right, some family members (who are closer to the Belgian border) actually buy there groceries and fuel is Belgium, back in ye olde days you couldnt do that, try sitting in a border crossing for 1hour+

When I was 18 I tended to go to Denmark every other month and buy beer. Train was cheap, beer was at the supermarket the other side of the road from the train station, and in Sweden I had to be 20. Then it was just a question of not getting a random ID and customs check. As there was a tiny chance of a contraband check which does still happen.
Wouldn't have been possible without the EU.

[Pann]

You can request flexible working hours, that doesn't mean you have the right to flexible working hours or will be given them.

The business has to deal with the request for flexible working hours in a reasonable manner, assuming the employee has 26 weeks service, if not the employee can take them to an employment tribunal. Refusing such a request would depend on whether there was a good business case for denying it and it is doubtful that an employer that employs it staff on zero-hours basis would be able to put forth a good business reason for doing so.

[Slant]

Sorry, seems the rhetorical nature of my question was still not obvious enough xD

I apologize, I recently made the same mistake... this whole topic is so absurd that sarcasm barely stands above the rest, really. See, if Dribbles had used your exact same words, he'd have been serious.

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Totally right, some family members (who are closer to the Belgian border) actually buy there groceries and fuel is Belgium, back in ye olde days you couldnt do that, try sitting in a border crossing for 1hour+

Anyone living around Luxembourg is likely to cross borderds once a week at least, I reckon. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if someone went to Belgium to work, bought groceries on the way in Luxembourg, visited a friend in Germany before going to their home in France. This isn't just a stupid example, the Benelux area profits so much from Schengen, if we abolished the EU, they would literally riot and disallow their Governments to put borders up, I think.

[dribbles]

And i asked you why do you think it's a good practice for the UK workforce.

And i asked first.

And i did respond to your question; exploitation, vulnerability, trapped in a poverty spiral, no vision no plan for the future, yaddi yadda.

you are deflecting, you are not putting forth argument in favor of zero hour contract. You're refusing the debate. You are basically just trolling then.

Are you joking Eurochums? You criticise a UK employment sytem that provides for virtually full employment. Suprisingly the EU released their youth unemployment figures just 2 weeks ago which I happened upon and should share, let's compare.

Greece 39.7%
Spain 34.1%
Italy 32.6%
Croatia 22.7%
France 20.4%

Disgraceful and inhuman if you ask me and a failed social model if ever I saw one.

Zero hours contracts are not meant to be a full time life career choice, but more for people who want to work more casually and perhaps part time eg students, semi retired and have been fantastic for women who can fit a hobby job around their home general duties of washing, cooking and cleaning.

Totally right, some family members (who are closer to the Belgian border) actually buy there groceries and fuel is Belgium, back in ye olde days you couldnt do that, try sitting in a border crossing for 1hour+

So what percentage of the EU population "enjoys" this fantastic benefit that only the EU can organise at a running cost of hundreds of billions of euro? Would you say 1 in a 100 benefit? 1 in a 1000? 1 in a million? Aren't you just illustrating the EU motto :- For the few, not the many?

[Slant]

So what percentage of the EU population "enjoys" this fantastic benefit that only the EU can organise at a running cost of hundreds of billions of euro? Would you say 1 in a 100 benefit? 1 in a 1000? 1 in a million? Aren't you just illustrating the EU motto :- For the few, not the many?

What's puzzling me is that you seem to think this is a zero sum game. You talk as if there's a downside to it. There isn't. That's the point. Why not do it? This is your folly and this is why you make a fool of yourself so much. You seem to think that somehow the dude in the centre of a country is suffering because the dude at the border can cross into the other country without border checks.

This benefit isn't costing anything. Quite the opposite, it's saving money, because we do not need the customs border infrastructure. So what the fuck are you even talking about?

[Vankrys]

Are you joking Eurochums? You criticise a UK employment sytem that provides for virtually full employment. Suprisingly the EU released their youth unemployment figures just 2 weeks ago which I happened upon and should share, let's compare.

Greece 39.7%
Spain 34.1%
Italy 32.6%
Croatia 22.7%
France 20.4%

Disgraceful and inhuman if you ask me and a failed social model if ever I saw one.

Zero hours contracts are not meant to be a full time life career choice, but more for people who want to work more casually and perhaps part time eg students, semi retired and have been fantastic for women who can fit a hobby job around their home general duties of washing, cooking and cleaning.

This is what i thought, you confirmed it.

That 0 hour contract is a trick to hide true number of unemployment. I bet people hired with this contract aren't counted as unemployed even if they didn't work that week or that month.

look, this has nothing to do with brexit, you can be pro or against brexit ans still have a complete separate opinion of the zero hour contract. I happen to think that contract is very unfriendly for worker right and too easily manipulated to exploit vulnerable workers.

[Mayhem]

This is what i thought, you confirmed it.

That 0 hour contract is a trick to hide true number of unemployment. I bet people hired with this contract aren't counted as unemployed even if they didn't work that week or that month.

look, this has nothing to do with brexit, you can be pro or against brexit ans still have a complete separate opinion of the zero hour contract. I happen to think that contract is very unfriendly for worker right and too easily manipulated to exploit vulnerable workers.

You're talking to dribbs, everything has to do with brexit. Even ww2 and the moon landing, i s'pose.

[Floopa]

0 hour contracts are a fucking cancer and should be removed.

[Vankrys]

0 hour contracts are a fucking cancer and should be removed.

they can easily be replace by short term contract, seasonal or interim contract. when a company has an temporary increase of activity, allow them to draft short term work contract to recruit help. There is no need to have people on call indefinitely.

[Noradin]

0 hour contracts are a fucking cancer and should be removed.

Congratulations on your vote to make sure they stay around in the UK.

[dribbles]

What's puzzling me is that you seem to think this is a zero sum game. You talk as if there's a downside to it. There isn't. That's the point. Why not do it? This is your folly and this is why you make a fool of yourself so much. You seem to think that somehow the dude in the centre of a country is suffering because the dude at the border can cross into the other country without border checks.

This benefit isn't costing anything. Quite the opposite, it's saving money, because we do not need the customs border infrastructure. So what the fuck are you even talking about?

You miss my point. It doesn't require the existence of a supranational organisation costing 100's of billions a year to organise that. You just have to look at the CTA agreement in the UK between Northern Ireland and the South predating the formation of the EU.

Again what is the point of the EU? Just so you and a few border people can pop easily to France for some cheese? That doesn't require the EU and all the shit that comes with it. C'mon you can do better than that surely...

Ooooh loook at this.....

EU SHOCK: ‘Victims of Euro' Germany could SINK bloc by relaunching DEUTSCHMARK

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...eutschmark-LSE

A few sensible Germans agree with me! Will there be an EU for the UK leave?

[Slant]

You miss my point. It doesn't require the existence of a supranational organisation costing 100's of billions a year to organise that. You just have to look at the CTA agreement in the UK between Northern Ireland and the South predating the formation of the EU.

Again what is the point of the EU? Just so you and a few border people can pop easily to France for some cheese? That doesn't require the EU and all the shit that comes with it. C'mon you can do better than that surely...

I'm not missing the point, you are. The supranational organisation has preceded Schengen by quite a few decades. We didn't invent the EU to get rid of borders. Rather, that is an - admittedly huge - side effect of the European process that was happening anyway. The reason we're talking about it is that I have to limit what I can talk to you about to simple things so you can actually follow the conversation. That doesn't mean it's the only thing I could have cited.

The CTA is probably not the best example, because of the unique situation of the UK. In other words, should I take the historically soft border between Austria and German as an example that Schengen is not needed between Germany and Denmark? You're being stupid. Stop it.

The points of the EU, in simple terms just for you:

1. To establish European citizenship. This means protection of fundamental human rights and freedoms.
2. To ensure freedom, security and justice. This means co-operation in the field of justice and home affairs.
3. To promote economic and social progress. This involves the single market, the euro, environmental protection and social and regional development.
4. To assert Europe's role in the world.

And all of that is always underlined by the motivation to pacify central Europe. Basically, give Germany and France something better to do than bash each other's heads in. I'm sorry, you did not hear "the UK" in any of that? That's right, the UK doesn't matter. Never has. That's why we actually chuckle when you madmen go "we're out, the EU will crumble". No, it won't. Nothing changed about the premise on why the EU and its precursors were founded.

[dribbles]

I'm not missing the point, you are. The supranational organisation has preceded Schengen by quite a few decades. We didn't invent the EU to get rid of borders. Rather, that is an - admittedly huge - side effect of the European process that was happening anyway. The reason we're talking about it is that I have to limit what I can talk to you about to simple things so you can actually follow the conversation. That doesn't mean it's the only thing I could have cited.

The CTA is probably not the best example, because of the unique situation of the UK. In other words, should I take the historically soft border between Austria and German as an example that Schengen is not needed between Germany and Denmark? You're being stupid. Stop it.

The points of the EU, in simple terms just for you:

1. To establish European citizenship. This means protection of fundamental human rights and freedoms.
2. To ensure freedom, security and justice. This means co-operation in the field of justice and home affairs.
3. To promote economic and social progress. This involves the single market, the euro, environmental protection and social and regional development.
4. To assert Europe's role in the world.

And all of that is always underlined by the motivation to pacify central Europe. Basically, give Germany and France something better to do than bash each other's heads in. I'm sorry, you did not hear "the UK" in any of that? That's right, the UK doesn't matter. Never has. That's why we actually chuckle when you madmen go "we're out, the EU will crumble". No, it won't. Nothing changed about the premise on why the EU and its precursors were founded.

1. Why do I or you need European citizenship, it's not proper citizenship at all existing in name only. Pointless, thanks for confirming the EU is pointless. What next another one on top of that? Perhaps Global citizenship? Bollocks.

2.I have freedom already thanks very much, again you confirm the pointlessness of the EU.

3.I have economic and social progress already. Again EU = pointless.

4.I don't give a monkeys about the EU asserting it's role in the world. EU = pointless.

So we agree the EU is pointless and irrelevant. Next?

[Slant]

1. Why do I or you need European citizenship, it's not proper citizenship at all existing in name only. Pointless, thanks for confirming the EU is pointless. What next another one on top of that? Perhaps Global citizenship? Bollocks.

2.I have freedom already thanks very much, again you confirm the pointlessness of the EU.

3.I have economic and social progress already. Again EU = pointless.

4.I don't give a monkeys about the EU asserting it's role in the world. EU = pointless.

So we agree the EU is pointless and irrelevant. Next?

The only thing I would agree with is that you're being irritatingly dishonest.

1. It's not about the word "citizenship". It's about protection of fundamental human rights and freedoms. The point is literally explained in the sentence after that. But you choose to ignore it, because you can't really disagree with that, can you. You're dishonest and discussing in bad faith once more. I'm surprised you even pick up these details and talk about them, because the only way you can get away with your fantasy is by generalising and inventing lies.

2. Your freedom sans the EU is limited to the UK. The EU extends that freedom to any country in the EU. Without you having to do anything. I don't see how this is not a net gain for you. Again, this is explained in the second part of the bullet point which you choose to actively ignore, because you can't really disagree with it. Again, you are dishonest and arguing in bad faith.

3. You have economic and social progress that the EU is trying to improve even further, again... second sentence, dishonest, blabla. This isn't just an empty phrase, you can see how the EU is improving every member state's economy over the decades. As long as you don't get yourself into trouble, of course. The EU isn't babysitting nations. It's just trying to create the tools and environment in which nations strive.

4. The EU isn't trying to assert the EU's role in the world. You're being dishonest again, it's trying to assert Europe's role in the world. That means not the EU is the big player here, it's the nations that make the European continent. Even the UK. Because, sadly, the British Empire is gone and the UK on its own is just a tiny fucking speck on the globe that nobody gives a toss about. On its own. As you will find out.

So, really, the only thing I would agree with is that you're dishonest and argue in bad faith, really. You don't even believe in your own stance is what I'd wager. I think you're just going through the motions. A troll, perhaps. To get a reaction. Mind you, I'm not explaining all of this for your benefit, I'm just pointing it out so the odd passive reader that may still stumble in and look at the last page sees an assessment of you that may help him realise just how dishonest the typical Brexiteer is.

[Fuiking]

The only thing I would agree with is that you're being irritatingly dishonest.

1. It's not about the word "citizenship". It's about protection of fundamental human rights and freedoms. The point is literally explained in the sentence after that. But you choose to ignore it, because you can't really disagree with that, can you. You're dishonest and discussing in bad faith once more. I'm surprised you even pick up these details and talk about them, because the only way you can get away with your fantasy is by generalising and inventing lies.

2. Your freedom sans the EU is limited to the UK. The EU extends that freedom to any country in the EU. Without you having to do anything. I don't see how this is not a net gain for you. Again, this is explained in the second part of the bullet point which you choose to actively ignore, because you can't really disagree with it. Again, you are dishonest and arguing in bad faith.

3. You have economic and social progress that the EU is trying to improve even further, again... second sentence, dishonest, blabla. This isn't just an empty phrase, you can see how the EU is improving every member state's economy over the decades. As long as you don't get yourself into trouble, of course. The EU isn't babysitting nations. It's just trying to create the tools and environment in which nations strive.

4. The EU isn't trying to assert the EU's role in the world. You're being dishonest again, it's trying to assert Europe's role in the world. That means not the EU is the big player here, it's the nations that make the European continent. Even the UK. Because, sadly, the British Empire is gone and the UK on its own is just a tiny fucking speck on the globe that nobody gives a toss about. On its own. As you will find out.

So, really, the only thing I would agree with is that you're dishonest and argue in bad faith, really. You don't even believe in your own stance is what I'd wager. I think you're just going through the motions. A troll, perhaps. To get a reaction. Mind you, I'm not explaining all of this for your benefit, I'm just pointing it out so the odd passive reader that may still stumble in and look at the last page sees an assessment of you that may help him realise just how dishonest the typical Brexiteer is.

Dribbles' reading skills might not be on par with certain standards, the express thing he linked clearly states the danger of leaving the EU and going back to D-Marks. If he had only read below the shiny pictures he would have read about it. So discussing this kind of thing with Dribbles' is a lost cause, he will only read what he likes to read and interprent it like that.

[Noradin]

Dribbles' reading skills might not be on par with certain standards, the express thing he linked clearly states the danger of leaving the EU and going back to D-Marks. If he had only read below the shiny pictures he would have read about it. So discussing this kind of thing with Dribbles' is a lost cause, he will only read what he likes to read and interprent it like that.

No one is discussing anything with Dripples.
We are posting corrections to the misleading statements he spews so that the unwary know not to take his word for it.

Discussions in this thread are at best sometimes about him and his lies, never with him, anymore.
If it looks like he is addressed directly that is mostly due to the posting style of people.

(Sorry Slant when it looks like I'm speaking in your stead, I'm just paraphrasing my understanding of what you wrote some posts back.)

[dribbles]

I'm just pointing it out so the odd passive reader that may still stumble in and look at the last page sees an assessment of you that may help him realise just how dishonest the typical Brexiteer is.

I think the reality is passive readers will form their own opinion about the EU fanatics that post here and if anything, on seeing the facts I present, tend to move more towards the euroscpetic side. My side. So I thank you kindly for that opportunity. Bet you didn't think you were doing you bit for brexit and for me too :P

No one is discussing anything with Dripples.
We are posting corrections to the misleading statements he spews so that the unwary know not to take his word for it.

Discussions in this thread are at best sometimes about him and his lies, never with him, anymore.
If it looks like he is addressed directly that is mostly due to the posting style of people.

(Sorry Slant when it looks like I'm speaking in your stead, I'm just paraphrasing my understanding of what you wrote some posts back.)

Statements? No facts. Pure unadulterated facts. Facts that the minute EU radical extremists are confronted with try to deviate off topic and start chatting about lions, leopards and unicorns or whatever in deflection. Case in point when I demonstrated very recently how the EU is failing its youth by providing no employment opportunities whatsoever.

Was there a murmur on topic from the fanatics? No nothing, nada, zilch. Not even a pathetic excuse for the pathetic EU's towering unemployment figures.