[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Slant]

The Greeks, Spaniards and Portuguese all said the same thing with their spending sprees in the 80's. Italy is the next and final pig to fall. It is not a matter if Italy falls but a matter when...

Okay. I'm totally waiting for that to happen... tomorrow, probably?

[Mafic]

Okay. I'm totally waiting for that to happen... tomorrow, probably?

Tomorrow, next year, next day.

My prediction is that another hair cut to bail out Italy isn't going to happen. :P

[Slant]

Tomorrow, next year, next day.

My prediction is that another hair cut to bail out Italy isn't going to happen. :P

I'm trembling...

[Xarkan]

Just a quick factcheck. The population of the British provinces equal not much more than 15%. You may not like English Tory voters (presumably Corbyns Labour Brexiteers are good though?) but for example the West Midlands has a population bigger than what might as well be now the English counties of Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland.

The facts are also that just the West Midlands region by population is bigger than 9 individual EU countries, considering the EU recognises somewhere with less than half a million people a nation. The UK has about 100 of these counties that the EU would and perhaps should have recognised as a country if it was big on fairness and equality. So by definition as of today the EU contains 128 ish countries and yet after March next year will have 27 left. And the UK will still have taken its 100 away.... bit of a catastrophe for the EU if you ask me.

In the same way the UK should not and will not be held to ransom by the region of the West Midlands it shall not be by other less significant areas too. It is also why the call for a second Brexit referendum will never be granted as it raises the Scotland question again. They will soon be moaning they want another one.

Too late, what is done is done, the sassenachs will perhaps revisit it again for and on behalf of the UK in 30 or 40 years, perhaps not

Tick tock, not long now eurochums, group cuddle anyone?

You seem to have an odd relationship with these numbers

The UK is not 80% of the EU's population, if you could divide the UK into 100 countries you could do the same with countries like France, Germany, Italy (only one of these 3 would have fewer people than the UK)

[Nadiru]

Okay. I'm totally waiting for that to happen... tomorrow, probably?

Your long-term forecast is "12 years" but I wouldn't count out a failure before then. Consumption-led growth is already impossible in 3 of the 4 GIPS states, but by 2030 it's impossible in the entirety of southern Europe and the economic raison d'etre of the EU (southern consumers matched with northern producers in a free trade zone) will be unworkable.

[dribbles]

You seem to have an odd relationship with these numbers

The UK is not 80% of the EU's population, if you could divide the UK into 100 countries you could do the same with countries like France, Germany, Italy (only one of these 3 would have fewer people than the UK)

But the EU isn't just France and Germany or is it? For example, by population, the UK leaving the EU is the equivalent of 10 Denmarks leaving, 30 Latvias, over 100 Maltas leaving. Such is the democratic deficit within the EU however each get equality and the same veto...

It may suit you to always bring up France/Germany with regard to EU/UK comparisons but don't forget all the others. I won't let you...

[Dhrizzle]

But the EU isn't just France and Germany or is it? For example, by population, the UK leaving the EU is the equivalent of 10 Denmarks leaving, 30 Latvias, over 100 Maltas leaving. Such is the democratic deficit within the EU however each get equality and the same veto...

It may suit you to always bring up France/Germany with regard to EU/UK comparisons but don't forget all the others. I won't let you...

Going by your odd system you should be saying that the EU has over a thousand countries...

[dribbles]

Going by your odd system you should be saying that the EU has over a thousand countries...

It is highlighting the flawed democratic model of the EU. How can it be right that a nation of 400,000 (Malta) can hold hostage, carrying the same veto rights as 80,000,000 (Germany) should they so choose?

In a proper mature democracy, as in the UK, it is not allowed to happen. It would be like allowing Surrey to dictate whole of UK policy.

People especially like to criticise elements of how UK democracy works, it is nice to bring some balance back. Brexit required a simple majority in a referendum, reconfirmed in a general election where 80%+ voted for pro leave parties.

A finer display of democracy in action you could not find and for certain not within the EU.

[Huehuecoyotl]

It is highlighting the flawed democratic model of the EU. How can it be right that a nation of 400,000 (Malta) can hold hostage, carrying the same veto rights as 80,000,000 (Germany) should they so choose?

In a proper mature democracy, as in the UK, it is not allowed to happen. It would be like allowing Surrey to dictate whole of UK policy.

People especially like to criticise elements of how UK democracy works, it is nice to bring some balance back. Brexit required a simple majority in a referendum, reconfirmed in a general election where 80%+ voted for pro leave parties.

A finer display of democracy in action you could not find and for certain not within the EU.

See, this is where your satire falls flat and you make yourself look ridiculous. These comments when you have the DUP driving Brexit strategy are farcical.

Try to be more subtle. This isnt vaudeville.

[Mayhem]

It is highlighting the flawed democratic model of the EU. How can it be right that a nation of 400,000 (Malta) can hold hostage, carrying the same veto rights as 80,000,000 (Germany) should they so choose?

In a proper mature democracy, as in the UK, it is not allowed to happen. It would be like allowing Surrey to dictate whole of UK policy.

People especially like to criticise elements of how UK democracy works, it is nice to bring some balance back. Brexit required a simple majority in a referendum, reconfirmed in a general election where 80%+ voted for pro leave parties.

A finer display of democracy in action you could not find and for certain not within the EU.

I'm certain that you actually believe everything you just wrote. That's some fine display of ignorance. /applaud

[Dhrizzle]

It is highlighting the flawed democratic model of the EU. How can it be right that a nation of 400,000 (Malta) can hold hostage, carrying the same veto rights as 80,000,000 (Germany) should they so choose?

Because despite propaganda to the contrary the EU respects the sovereignty of its members.

In a proper mature democracy, as in the UK, it is not allowed to happen. It would be like allowing Surrey to dictate whole of UK policy.

The biggest difference here is the UK being a single nation whilst the EU is a group of sovereign states, giving each nation a veto ensures the larger nations don't completely overrule the smaller.

What is worrying is the UK's "mature" democracy throwing up a situation where the government is propped by a party with parliamentary representation massively inflated compared to their vote share.

People especially like to criticise elements of how UK democracy works, it is nice to bring some balance back. Brexit required a simple majority in a referendum, reconfirmed in a general election where 80%+ voted for pro leave parties.

A finer display of democracy in action you could not find and for certain not within the EU.

It's this fundamental misrepresentation of the British electoral system that lends credence to the idea you're a parody persona, it certainly makes me doubt you have any idea about British politics.

[Noradin]

The EU hasn't done shit to address those concerns and get the hard left on its side. It is suffering from imposing a failed ideological agenda of austerity.

Ah but there is a reason for this that you keep forgetting exists: The UK is a sovereign state.
You should really look up what that means because your comment on Greece shows that you do not understand it.

[Xarkan]

But the EU isn't just France and Germany or is it? For example, by population, the UK leaving the EU is the equivalent of 10 Denmarks leaving, 30 Latvias, over 100 Maltas leaving. Such is the democratic deficit within the EU however each get equality and the same veto...

It may suit you to always bring up France/Germany with regard to EU/UK comparisons but don't forget all the others. I won't let you...

Again.. you have some slight issue of proportions

This time in the other direction, it is roughly 11.5 Denmarks to a UK

Your idea is to measure countries in Malta's

Fine

Malta is one Malta (436.947 people)
The UK is ~150 maltas (65.64million people)
The EU is ~1162 maltas (508 million people) [would that be 1.1 kMalta?]
When the UK leaves that leaves ~1012 maltas

That is the proportion

Mentioning 3 of the biggest after you leave was lazy of me, i will admit, it made you look more significant than you are even, sorry about that

[Kallisto]

Wait a minute is dribbles bitching about veto rights now? When in the past he was fanwanking over cameron using it against basically all of the EU stating they want to save steel in Europe?

[AeneasBK]

In a proper mature democracy, as in the UK,

Hahahahahahahahahaha

[Mayhem]

Wait a minute is dribbles bitching about veto rights now? When in the past he was fanwanking over cameron using it against basically all of the EU stating they want to save steel in Europe?

He is quick to turn around and argue against himself when it suits his fabricated reality.

[Kallisto]

He is quick to turn around and argue against himself when it suits his fabricated reality.

True, when it came to steel he was bitching about the EU not protecting it before being told it was Cameron that vetoed the EU from saving it then he was all for it collapsing at the expense of British workers. It's just fun to point out his contradictions.

[Pann]

True, when it came to steel he was bitching about the EU not protecting it before being told it was Cameron that vetoed the EU from saving it then he was all for it collapsing at the expense of British workers. It's just fun to point out his contradictions.

What you have written is not true. The UK was one of fourteen EU states that opposed punitive tariffs on Chinese steel although Sajid Javid was a signatory on a letter calling from the Commission to make “full and timely use of the full range of EU trade policy instruments to tackle unfair trade, including anti subsidy measures, to ensure a global level playing field.”(https://assets.publishing.service.go...5-feb-2016.pdf).

Nor was this exclusively a Con issue with Peter Mandelson blocking anti-dumping reforms in 2008.

It is also extremely doubtful that the proposals would have saved the steel industry, which had been in serious decline since the 70s, (since Chinese steel exports only account for around 7% of the UK's steel imports and the main bulk coming from EU member states) without intervention from the UK government with regard to green taxes and subsidises (which of are not permitted under EU law).

[Huehuecoyotl]

What you have written is not true. The UK was one of fourteen EU states that opposed punitive tariffs on Chinese steel although Sajid Javid was a signatory on a letter calling from the Commission to make “full and timely use of the full range of EU trade policy instruments to tackle unfair trade, including anti subsidy measures, to ensure a global level playing field.”(https://assets.publishing.service.go...5-feb-2016.pdf).

Nor was this exclusively a Con issue with Peter Mandelson blocking anti-dumping reforms in 2008.

It is also extremely doubtful that the proposals would have saved the steel industry, which had been in serious decline since the 70s, (since Chinese steel exports only account for around 7% of the UK's steel imports and the main bulk coming from EU member states) without intervention from the UK government with regard to green taxes and subsidises (which of are not permitted under EU law).

This appears to show that the UK were the "ringleaders" of the attempt to block it. At least according the organisation responsible for steel production in the EU. But feel free to provide an actual link that supports your view that the UK were just one of a group of countries that were all doing so.

I'd also be interested to see how many of the other countries had significant steel manufacturing that wanted to prevent the chinese dumping, that their governments chose to ignore.

[Pann]

This appears to show that the UK were the "ringleaders" of the attempt to block it. At least according the organisation responsible for steel production in the EU. But feel free to provide an actual link that supports your view that the UK were just one of a group of countries that were all doing so.

I'd also be interested to see how many of the other countries had significant steel manufacturing that wanted to prevent the chinese dumping, that their governments chose to ignore.

And? The fact of the matter is that thirteen other countries agreed with the UK and Kallisto's point was a best misleading.