[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Mekh]

From what I'm reading the currently reached agreement between EU and the UK basically makes the UK almost a vassal to the EU, nice Brexit.... :')

"The agreement will keep the UK tied to EU trade policy until there is an end established by ‘joint consent’ - in other words, the EU has a veto."

Brilliant deal. Could almost have been negotiated by Trump himself.

[Deleted]

When you are a politician you are supposed to represent your constituents, not yourself.

I mean that's incredibly naive, but sure keep on believing that.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Those not Corbyn ilk need to ask themselves. Is the Labour brand worth it? They seem to have lost the civil war right now and either need to join the Co-operative movement (A party that's been linked with labour since 1920s) and splinter off or join Lib Dems.

The electorate prefer Labour to the Conservatives right now, but they see Corbyn and go "I can't vote for you to be PM.". Labour is usually either neck and neck with Conservatives or slightly above/below (It's like 1-2 point difference.) but when it comes to May v Corbyn, May dominates. The voters are also not saying "Bring in a Blairite." They're saying "We like your policies, but Corbyn with his history to IRA, Hezbollah, Hamas. His bullshit over no sitting on trains, his mishandling of anti semitism etc makes him toxic." then there's Dianne Abbot who has her own issues and John McDonnell who openly calls himself a Marxist, praises Lennin and Trotsky and brought in Mao's red book to read in parliament as shadow chancellor will push people away.

Sadly there isn't much we can do about people that read papers like the Daily Mail and believe the nonsense they print. But removing Corbyn won't achieve anything, because the MSM would take that as a victory and bring a new set of lies and smears against whoever follows him, assuming they try and follow the same principles. Because it's the principles that terrify them, the idea that billionaires should have to pay some tax and not be able to flout laws at a whim. The idea we defend schools, hospitals and transport from predatory entities that just want to suck money out of them. As long as Labour stand for that, we will carry on seeing stories about the "unelectability" of the leader, whoever it is.

[Kallisto]

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/stat...57751678492672

That's quite a number. (8-10 ministers not liking the deal)

[Deleted]

I guess you don't understand what a normative statement is.

I understand what a normative statement is, it doesn't make expressing it any less naive, especially when we're talking about politics in the real world, not the world we'd like to live in.

[Pann]

Those not Corbyn ilk need to ask themselves. Is the Labour brand worth it? They seem to have lost the civil war right now and either need to join the Co-operative movement (A party that's been linked with labour since 1920s) and splinter off or join Lib Dems.

The electorate prefer Labour to the Conservatives right now, but they see Corbyn and go "I can't vote for you to be PM.". Labour is usually either neck and neck with Conservatives or slightly above/below (It's like 1-2 point difference.) but when it comes to May v Corbyn, May dominates. The voters are also not saying "Bring in a Blairite." They're saying "We like your policies, but Corbyn with his history to IRA, Hezbollah, Hamas. His bullshit over no sitting on trains, his mishandling of anti semitism etc makes him toxic." then there's Dianne Abbot who has her own issues and John McDonnell who openly calls himself a Marxist, praises Lennin and Trotsky and brought in Mao's red book to read in parliament as shadow chancellor will push people away.

The Cons are ahead in all but two voting intention polls since the beginning October which is similar to September and August polling results. The fact that Labour cannot even poll ahead of a deeply divided party that is riddled with infighting and is widely believed to be doing a poor job with Brexit suggests that the electorate do not prefer Lab.

[Noradin]

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/stat...57751678492672

That's quite a number. (8-10 ministers not liking the deal)

So they can criticise, but do they have a better proposal that the EU would accept?

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I understand what a normative statement is, it doesn't make expressing it any less naive, especially when we're talking about politics in the real world, not the world we'd like to live in.

No, expressing it is not naive in itself, because doing so does not constitute an assumption about reality and only those can be classified in terms of naiveté.

That being said I do not agree with his statement per se.
Politicans ought to be consistent and honest about their goals so their constituents can decide whom to vote for.
Representing themselves does not necessarily preclude that.

[Kallisto]

So it seems

Backbenchers hate the deal
ERG hate the Deal
Labour hates the deal
DUP suspicious of the deal
SNP despise the deal
Plaid hate it
Greens hate it
Some EU members might try to veto it
8-10 members of the cabinate hate it.

Not sure how this is going to work

[Deleted]

So it seems

Backbenchers hate the deal
ERG hate the Deal
Labour hates the deal
DUP suspicious of the deal
SNP despise the deal
Plaid hate it
Greens hate it
Some EU members might try to veto it
8-10 members of the cabinate hate it.

Not sure how this is going to work

It's not going to work.

We're going to hit a no deal because these retards can't work together.

That's the true result of Leaver mentality, not "plucky Britain working together" it's "your not getting yours because I won't get mine"

[dribbles]

It's not going to work.

We're going to hit a no deal because these retards can't work together.

That's the true result of Leaver mentality, not "plucky Britain working together" it's "your not getting yours because I won't get mine"

It's working for me...

Three cheers for British democracy, I'm certainly getting what I want!

Tick Tock!

[Deleted]

The Cabinet has backed Mays deal, which I don't think anyone saw coming, but there are probably resignations coming and looks like Mogg/BoJo are gearing up for another no confidence vote and a leadership battle.

[Kallisto]

The Cabinet has backed Mays deal, which I don't think anyone saw coming, but there are probably resignations coming and looks like Mogg/BoJo are gearing up for another no confidence vote and a leadership battle.

Notice she never said unanimous and cabinate members are not just walking they're stropping out.

[ranzino]

The Cabinet has backed Mays deal, which I don't think anyone saw coming, but there are probably resignations coming and looks like Mogg/BoJo are gearing up for another no confidence vote and a leadership battle.

perhaps cabinet was in easy mode, because they know this sort of Brexit wont survive in parliament ? you can nod off anything in such a scenario, it is pretty useless within 24h.

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From what I'm reading the currently reached agreement between EU and the UK basically makes the UK almost a vassal to the EU, nice Brexit.... :')

"The agreement will keep the UK tied to EU trade policy until there is an end established by ‘joint consent’ - in other words, the EU has a veto."

all this struggle for that status quo ? UK could have negotiated that within 5 mins with Barnier in summer 2017, but naaaaaah.

[Deleted]

So it basically sounds like we switch to the Norway model until both the EU and the UK are satisfied that the divorce is sufficiently hashed out, and the UK can also make trade deals during this time period, that go into effect when the EU and the UK eventually part ways.

I mean it's not perfect but it's a damn sight better than a no deal.

[Deleted]

fuck me thats a heavy document.

at least she has conceeded that brexit can be stopped.

[ranzino]

The entire paper

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf

baah, 585 pages ??

here a 7 pages summary by UK

[Deleted]

I mean the Norway model is the ONLY way to keep the GFA intact at least on the short term. And imo it will still take tremendous effort to satisfy the RoI and be able to disengage from this deal (since to disengage from it the UK needs EU approval). I mean, does anyone still have any idea how they will keep the borders invisible when this gets withdrawn?

The only way for the UK to leave the EU and not have a border between NI and the RoI is to either secede NI to the RoI or to move the borders of the UK from NI to Great Britain instead, which is basically ceding NI to the RoI in all but name. The main block to this is the DUP, who are Unionists, who May can't piss off because they are the only thing giving her a majority, if the deal pushes the eventual divorce further down the line, the DUP could be out of the picture and the DUP blocker shouldn't be as big of an issue as it is now.

Which is presumably why the DUP are vehemently against this agreement.

And yeah, the EU also getting a say in when the UK leave is probably going to be one of the biggest things that stops this deal in Parliament, even though it makes complete sense for the EU to want a say.

[Demolitia]

So it basically sounds like we switch to the Norway model until both the EU and the UK are satisfied that the divorce is sufficiently hashed out, and the UK can also make trade deals during this time period, that go into effect when the EU and the UK eventually part ways.

I mean it's not perfect but it's a damn sight better than a no deal.

It's a damn lot shittier than what you have right now.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Hmmms...

I'm finding it hard to draw anything from the 585 page document.

And the critical bullet point in the 7 page summary basically says, we're going to leave without a plan to solve an insoluble problem.

So much unadulterated joy to be had here.

[Deleted]

It's a damn lot shittier than what you have right now.

Ofcourse it is, but even if we end Brexit we're not going to get back what we have now.

I'll take what I can get at this point, and anything is better than a no deal.