[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Slant]

EU / EASA Basic Regulation – Third Country participation (Article 66) states that "The Agency shall be open to the participation of European third countries which are contracting parties to the Chicago Convention and which have entered into agreements with the European Community..." which essentially means that as long as a European third country has signed up to the Chicago Convention (which the UK has) and it receives advance permission from member states to operate within that state. The EU commission has, also, acknowledged that a bare bones agreement regarding air travel would be desirable in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...s/aviation.pdf



Yeah, you see that is not the original claim nor does it address what I have written. The claim was that the EU would have immediately erect a hard border if the UK leaves without a deal, this is not the case the WTO allows a reasonable amount of time in order to implement to new customs arrangements nor is it physically possible to build a border in Ireland between now and March.

No, everything will not need to be checked nor is everything that is imported in the EU checked now.



Really? As long as those silly bolts arrive at the factory when they are needed it doesn't matter how long they are sitting at Dover. How do you think the likes of Honda operate JIT systems with engines shipped from Japan?



I never once said that animals do not need to be checked. It helps everyone is you actually read and respond to what people have written rather than what you imagine they written.



I have no idea what you're on about here or how it relates to anything I have written.



This has nothing to do with, well, anything. Anyway I hope you feel better for getting this... er... rant off of your chest.



Those are EU rules. No, I do not think that EU allows just anyone to sign documents there is a clue in the words authorised and signatory as to who is allowed or authorised to sign off the relevant paperwork.

Again try responding to what has been written and instead of making things up I know that you find it easier to argue against your made up nonsense but it really is a waste of everyone's time including your own.

Oh and you do know that if you actually took some time to listen to others and tried to understand the topic at hand, instead of assuming that you know better than everyone else, it wouldn't seem so scary and you wouldn't need to be so angry and sweary all the time?

I mean, do you even read what you copy&paste? I have bolded the bit that the UK hasn't. No, it doesn't mean just any agreement, it means specifically an agreement about airspace over the EU. Which the UK hasn't. You don't get it, do you? You need to take this shit seriously, because you are fucked as of now. You can't just say "we signed some Agreement in Chicago 30 odd years ago, so you have to allow us to fly over there. No, we don't. And we won't. Otherwise every trash country wants to fly over Europe without the proper papers! No, the UK is not special. You do not get special treatment. Rest of the World treatment is what you get until you sign an agreement with the EU specifically dealing with air traffic.

You wanna bet how fast that border is coming up? I mean, ignore the WTO. We don't trust you. Your country has lost so much credibility in the past 2 years, no, we do not want uncontrolled goods transfer from your country into our trading bloc. You are so desperate for trade, who knows what shit you'll let into your country. I heard you're totally in line for US GMO food flooding your supermarkets.

So, you'd like to use Calais or Dover as a fancy storage facility? You know those lorries are going to sit there for days, right? At least on the dover side. You know how expensive it is for a logistics company to maintain costs for a lorry and a driver that's not moving? Considering how small the margins in the logistics sector already are, you're just asking for trouble right there. But let's ignore that and pretend it's your personal storage space. How long exactly do you think a lorry needs to get through the queue? I have no clue, really. And that's really, really bad for JIT, where you're practically delivering straight onto the conveyor belt.

Ignore what I said if you like, pretend there will be some "technical solution", without ever having heard from May what that actually is (hint: she has no clue and throws a meaningless phrase at you). There will be "authorised signatories" (nevermind that nobody knows who's doing the authorising and what qualifications they need or if they are validated by the EU at all). Ignore all of that, pretend the world is a happy place where everything will work out, because of the goodwill of the people. It'll be alright. Because sticking your head into the ground always helped, right?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Some say yikes, the majority say yippeee!

What is it with right-wing nutjobs and projection? Just because you think something, doesn't mean that everyone else does. In your case I would have said you'd be hard pressed to find one more person that had a brain that worked like yours, but then Teleros turned up.

There will be two no confidence votes, 90% chance one of those will be successful. Again yippeeee for the will of the people.

Tick tock.

You do understand that the votes will be of a small group of MPs that were elected with a minority of the people that actually voted, don't you? Not sure how that equates to the "will of the people". And your crowd can't even be sure of getting a majority of those!

Counting down to the point where reality gets through to that fascist wet dream fantasy you've created. Tick tock indeed.

[Deleted]

That pretty much sums up the Brexit crowd really. They are angry at the EU, because the Daily Mail has told them to be for 40 years. So if Brexit doesn't fix everything, they are still going to be angry at the EU because somehow it will be their fault. They won't take any resposibility for the mess of their own making, because why should they when none of the leaders of Leave bothered to?

They should be asking where Reese-Mogg has actually fucking been for the last two years. Because this over-bred self-serving stain on the crinkly hankie of history should have been front and centre organising, arguing and negotiating the Brexit that he was so damn certain we needed. Instead he stepped back and did absolutely nothing except complain that others were doing it wrong.

If there were any justice, he should be getting vilified by the entire country. People on both sides should be demanding that he be driven out of politics permanently. It's the equivalent of Churchill demanding we fight the Nazis, before buggering off to his country house for the course of the war, occasionally issuing statements about how badly we are doing it. While moving his assets to the US just in case. His cowardice sickens me, regardless of what I think of the position he's taken.

I dislike what the EU has become. I roll my eyes at the disrespect and snide arrogance towards a democratic decision by the people. I see a chance, that - within a generation - Brexit might be seen as a success.


But this is such a great post dissecting the mouthpieces of the leave movement and their motivations and their (lack of) actions. Kudos to you.

[Kiri]

I dislike what the EU has become. I roll my eyes at the disrespect and snide arrogance towards a democratic decision by the people. I see a chance, that - within a generation - Brexit might be seen as a success.


But this is such a great post dissecting the mouthpieces of the leave movement and their motivations and their (lack of) actions. Kudos to you.

Why is it disrespectful to the democratic decision to complain about influential Brexit backers not helping much with the actual nit and gritty of getting it done? In my opinion, people like Reese-Mogg fighting hard to get the referendum result, then barely assisting in bringing it to fruition, is far more disrespectful towards the democratic decision than anything written in this post.

[Deleted]

Why is it disrespectful to the democratic decision to complain about influential Brexit backers not helping much with the actual nit and gritty of getting it done? In my opinion, people like Reese-Mogg fighting hard to get the referendum result, then barely assisting in bringing it to fruition, is far more disrespectful towards the democratic decision than anything written in this post.

The first two lines quite obviously were general, not directed at the quoted post. It went over your head. Don't worry. More things will.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I roll my eyes at the disrespect and snide arrogance

It went over your head. Don't worry. More things will

presumably you don't also roll your eyes at ironic posts

[Kiri]

The first two lines quite obviously were general, not directed at the quoted post. It went over your head. Don't worry. More things will.

See, the issue there is a bit of a layout one. When you quote someone, it is generally assumed that your first lines pertain to the post in question, not that one starts with an aside, then only references the post in an aside at the end. Mind you that in this thread, we have people like Dribbles that would unironically read the quoted post and see the EU arrogance etc exemplified within. That makes it all to easy to treat your whole response as a specific response to the quote, sorry. Nuance is dead on these forums, so I hardly expect it these days in most shapes and forms.

For reference, I would suggest that you assume a layout more like this to prevent confusion:

<--general part -->
<--quote -->
<--reply to quote-->

[dribbles]

Here's a short little video from inside an EU bunker somewhere which sums up exactly where we are at. I have to say when I first saw it it reminded me of someone on this forum who enjoys a good rant now and again, daren't say who though...

[Pann]

Here's a short little video from inside an EU bunker somewhere which sums up exactly where we are at. I have to say when I first saw it it reminded me of someone on this forum who enjoys a good rant now and again, daren't say who though...

At first glance I thought Rees-Mogg had gotten involved with the Movember jollies.

[Pannonian]

Here's a short little video from inside an EU bunker somewhere which sums up exactly where we are at. I have to say when I first saw it it reminded me of someone on this forum who enjoys a good rant now and again, daren't say who though...

Doesnt this EU = Germany = Nazis get old after 70 years?

[ranzino]

Doesnt this EU = Germany = Nazis get old after 70 years?

naaah, not in britain.
IMHO Bruno Ganz was scaring perfect as Hitler actor

[Kallisto]

Doesnt this EU = Germany = Nazis get old after 70 years?

Nah for many in Britain WW2 never ended, it's just a ceasefire with a view of "Any day now Germany will do it again. Just watch. No really any day now." for the past 70 3 years.

[Deleted]

So if this deal gets voted down i reckon you will see alot of remain MP's stop using this 'will of the people' 'respect the referendum' bullshit and just move to ignoring the referendum. You might start hearing 'recommendation' and 'legally non binding'. No deal is that unpalatable.

[Slant]

Here's a short little video from inside an EU bunker somewhere which sums up exactly where we are at. I have to say when I first saw it it reminded me of someone on this forum who enjoys a good rant now and again, daren't say who though...

Oh, look! It's a Brit fantasizing about WW2 again. How surprising...

[dribbles]

So if this deal gets voted down i reckon you will see alot of remain MP's stop using this 'will of the people' 'respect the referendum' bullshit and just move to ignoring the referendum. You might start hearing 'recommendation' and 'legally non binding'. No deal is that unpalatable.

It doesn't need the deal to be voted down, you are looking too far ahead. Today/tomorrow the Maybot has to get the budget passed in parliament. Can she do it? After all the betrayed DUP have stated their confidence and supply support of the Tories is dead. Failure of the government of the day to pass its budget spending plans is a de facto vote of confidence. If it doesn't go through, she and the government falls. That makes 3 upcoming votes of confidences she has to pass... impossible.

Good job we got plenty of breathing space until the, enshrined in law, March Brexit date, oh wait, time flies....tick tock.

[Kallisto]

So if this deal gets voted down i reckon you will see alot of remain MP's stop using this 'will of the people' 'respect the referendum' bullshit and just move to ignoring the referendum. You might start hearing 'recommendation' and 'legally non binding'. No deal is that unpalatable.

I always wonder how many of these "Will of the people." will be for pushing a change to the way elections are done in the UK to make it look like "Will of the people."

[Deleted]

It doesn't need the deal to be voted down, you are looking too far ahead. Today/tomorrow the Maybot has to get the budget passed in parliament. Can she do it? After all the betrayed DUP have stated their confidence and supply support of the Tories is dead. Failure of the government of the day to pass its budget spending plans is a de facto vote of confidence. If it doesn't go through, she and the government falls. That makes 3 upcoming votes of confidences she has to pass... impossible.

Good job we got plenty of breathing space until the, enshrined in law, March Brexit date, oh wait, time flies....tick tock.

You do realise today and tomorrow are the readings and debate of specific clauses in the autumn budget right?

https://services.parliament.uk/bills...inanceno3.html

Even if certain clauses were voted down it would not be fatal, you are getting way ahead of yourself. I suggest you educate yourself on exactly how a bill comes into effect as this is still a very early stage. There will not be a no confidence vote due to the budget unless it cant pass on 11th Dec.
If a vital funding clause is voted down, history shows us the chancellor usually proposes an alternate way to pay a shortfall a few days later.

Also you really need to consider if its in the interest of the DUP to trigger a GE now. Lets assume you are correct and they do. You have either a may led conservatives edging out labour and then her doing a deal with someone else to prop up her government so she can now screw over NI if required. (Assuming the eu would rengotiate the red line still)
Maybe corbyn wins and you guessed DUP again cant block a deal that screws over their interests.
Ohh wait you think a GE will be a johnson/mogg/raab conservative win? While overwhelmingly popular in the tory party polls they were massively disliked by the general populace when polls were run in august.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...-mogg-icm-poll

Now i understand this is outdated but this was done when chequers was put forward so there would need to be massive swing of popular opinion, and lets be honest her popularity had already nosedived then.

Do really honestlt believe the DUP want to risk their seat at the table voting down a budget which is well received by the public?
If brexit has taught us one thing, UK politicians have a nasty habit of placing own interests ahead of country. They know they can wait to vote down the deal itself or if they are lucky rees-mogg will get his 48 letters and displace her. They don't need to gamble.

[dribbles]

You do realise today and tomorrow are the readings and debate of specific clauses in the autumn budget right?

https://services.parliament.uk/bills...inanceno3.html

Even if certain clauses were voted down it would not be fatal, you are getting way ahead of yourself. I suggest you educate yourself on exactly how a bill comes into effect as this is still a very early stage. There will not be a no confidence vote due to the budget unless it cant pass on 11th Dec.
If a vital funding clause is voted down, history shows us the chancellor usually proposes an alternate way to pay a shortfall a few days later.

Also you really need to consider if its in the interest of the DUP to trigger a GE now. Lets assume you are correct and they do. You have either a may led conservatives edging out labour and then her doing a deal with someone else to prop up her government so she can now screw over NI if required. (Assuming the eu would rengotiate the red line still)
Maybe corbyn wins and you guessed DUP again cant block a deal that screws over their interests.
Ohh wait you think a GE will be a johnson/mogg/raab conservative win? While overwhelmingly popular in the tory party polls they were massively disliked by the general populace when polls were run in august.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...-mogg-icm-poll

Now i understand this is outdated but this was done when chequers was put forward so there would need to be massive swing of popular opinion, and lets be honest her popularity had already nosedived then.

Do really honestlt believe the DUP want to risk their seat at the table voting down a budget which is well received by the public?
If brexit has taught us one thing, UK politicians have a nasty habit of placing own interests ahead of country. They know they can wait to vote down the deal itself or if they are lucky rees-mogg will get his 48 letters and displace her. They don't need to gamble.

You offer many scenarios which of course could come true. But the DUP have only said they will not supply support to a Theresa May led government, any other Tory leader who offers assurances not to sell out NI and the UK for an EU deal would I am sure get it swiftly reinstated. The government doesn't necessarily need to fall, only the Maybot does.

The DUP don't need to trigger a general election to change the Tory leader and PM. And dissaffected Tory MP's can keep their Graham Brady letters powder dry in their back pockets in reserve.

In any case each day that goes by with the government in chaos and failing to govern we get closer to that March cut off no deal Brexit date.

The budget amendment votes tomorrow will be an indicator more or less of likely continuing DUP support and how strong and stable the Maybot is going forward.

As you say, tomorrow wouldn't necessarily be fatal and for me its a bit too soon from my point of view for her to fall so quickly and painlessly, but anything that weakens her authority and increases the likelihood of that closer to the December meaningful vote is good in my book.

[Noradin]

Have some respect for those who gave their lives please.

Most of the people who voted leave gave their lifes in WWII?
How come they were still on the voting rolls?

[Pann]

It would appear that the DUP have withdrawn (or at least signalling intent to carry through with their threat) their supply and confidence arrangement with the Tories.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46269685

Coupled with Spain messing around with regard to Gibraltar the next few days could be interesting to say the least.