[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Teleros]

Is there still any chance of a second refferendum

Funny you should mention that, I just bumped into this on Guido Fawkes:

https://order-order.com/2018/11/27/e...nd-referendum/

Constitutional experts Vernon Bogdanor and Lord Kerslake both agree that there is no way for Parliament to force a second referendum without a cooperative executive.

Professor Bogdanor confirms that as the Withdrawal Agreement is a treaty, Parliament can either ratify it or not. “A referendum amendment would have no effect on its own, to have a second referendum you need legislation which in 2015 took seven months to get through Parliament.”

Former Head of the Civil Service Lord Kerslake agrees, saying “there has to be, as Vernon says, legislation… the way forward has to come with the involvement and the agreement of Government.”

Just give the Brexiteers their lolipops and tell them to go out and play because I think we've entertained their foolishness long enough.

Jawohl mein fuhrer! Ve vill crush ze majority of ze country under our boots!

Also I'm pissy because I'm tired of all the NHS cutback's and I can no longer get my creams for my skin which I've used my entire life because the NHS is making more and more cutbacks even though I pay for my prescriptions.

"But what about me?! ME ME ME ME ME!!!!one11one!"

Frankly, I doubt your prescriptions cover the full cost of these skin creams, hence the problem when the NHS decides to no longer fund its share. Plus, you're posting on MMO-C, so I'm going to take a leap of faith and suggest you're not a pensioner or suffering from some ghastly disease like cancer that has absurdly high treatment costs. Seeing as the NHS seems to think that A&E, old people, and the like are a higher priority than you, and seeing as how there's only so much money in the world, something's got to give.

Still, let's add something constructive. You could always cut some more dead wood:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...affing-numbers
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...s/nhs-managers

Took 7 years for a sub-20% drop in the number of managers (43,000 of them in 2009, costing ~8% of the budget). We managed to run a global empire with a civil service a fraction of its present size, so it's not like we need most of the current red tape types.

https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk...civil-servants

But hey, why face harsh truths when you can just take a steaming dump all over a majority of your fellow countrymen?

[Slant]

Jawohl mein fuhrer! Ve vill crush ze majority of ze country under our boots!

Whenever I see a Brit do this kind of imitation trying to be funny, I think it's sad that some people really can't help being this stupid. It's not even funny. Or annoying, it's just... embarassing. For your countrymen.

[Slant]

I'm in my 30's and a psoriasis sufferer since I was a baby from head to toe, I'm having to fight tooth and nail to try and get my doctors to prescribe creams as I do use alot a week while current prescription prices are £8.80 the creams cost £11-12 to buy over the counter for a substantionaly smaller tub I have to cake myself in creams twice a day in order to keep my condition under control, I know what goes on behind the scenes in the medical sector as I'm a medicines dispenser by trade.

Pharmacies as it is get paid pennies per prescription that is handed in for NHS patients so they are having to make up for those loss's to stay open by offering extra services ie Medicine Use Reviews (MUR's), Addict Services and Flu jabs, While basic NHS Services like Diabete's services and Blood pressure services actually make too little money to be worth a Pharmacists time as it takes more time to do these services than the NHS is willing to pay for.

It's not just about the "MEMEMEME!!!!!" as you put it but there are plenty of people out there NOT getting the help and services they need and are unneedlessly suffering just to "Save money".

Wait, did you just tell him how the real world works? Where people aren't magically super healthy unless they fracture a bone or something else that is easy to fix? Can't have that. Complicated illnesses don't exist, after all. Especially not chronic ones. Where would we be if people could just get sick and need medication over long periods of time. We'd go broke!

[Vankrys]

Despite Brexit! Were any economists predicting that at the time of the referendum? Were they hell.

UK is still in the EU, Brexit is not complete. Let's talk again in a year or 2.

[Slant]

Honestly you don't believe people can be so dense unless you see it in the flesh, like most people who walk into Pharmacies seem to think their medication is made up by the doctor after he see's them then is instantly delivered to their local Pharmacy, No no WE do all that work, WE check all medication interactions and WE are the ones who actually care for a lot of our patients be them old, or young.

We're all just cogs in a mechanism. And even the little ones have an important function. People often forget that. If it wasn't dealing with people's sicknesses, healthcare would be a fascinating example of how you walk along a long string of people, everyone doing their bit to make you better. From the receiptionist at the GP, to the GP, specialist doctor, his assistants, hospital staff, anaesthesist, more assistants, surgical doctor, nurses in the wakeup room, back to the GP, pharmacies and local pharma resellers and their delivery vans... etc. etc.

And pretty much every step of it is designed to happen on short notice, too, if need be. Medical emergencies being what they are. Shit's expensive, being good and fast because it has to. And someone's gotta pay for it. It's tragic, though, when people's lives are casually thrown under the bus, because internet warriors want to win a stupid argument and blow up the country in the process...

[Teleros]

Whenever I see a Brit do this kind of imitation trying to be funny, I think it's sad that some people really can't help being this stupid.

Speak for yourself. We've been taking the piss out of the nazis like that for as long as there have been nazis.

[telygroar]

The barman who works for 6 months on the med during the summer can expect 90% of his pay for sitting on his arse through the winter, year in year out, paid for by his summer employer. That still true? Crazy.

HAHAHA, I personnally know this matter and you're in in a total urban legend/total disinformation bullshit if you think it work like that.

You're employed just for the 6 open months for this salary, OR, if not, you're paid the total sum of the 6 month but extended on a year (less paid), OR you are just moved on another site if you're working with a big group.

[Acidbaron]

Speak for yourself. We've been taking the piss out of the nazis like that for as long as there have been nazis.

Says the person who embraces far right ideologies, ain't that cute taking the piss out of yourself. Good nice little sheep!


In any case, vote will probably not pass and the circus will start again with barely any time to renogiate a new deal. Guess the UK is going to fall in complete choas slowly but surely. Shame, oh well guess its good news for me if the plant in Oxford suffers under this.

[Mayhem]

Speak for yourself. We've been taking the piss out of the nazis like that for as long as there have been nazis.

What do you mean by "like that"? Speaking with a "german accent"?

[caervek]

Whenever I see a Brit do this kind of imitation trying to be funny, I think it's sad that some people really can't help being this stupid. It's not even funny.

It's funny if you read it in a Geordie accent (even works).

[Noradin]

-snip-

No reson to discuss anything with you when you just quote me and then don't respond to a thing I wrote, when you just double down on your nonsense.

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There isn't any debate over that at all. It wasn't binding, which is the reason why the discovery that it was a flawed vote hasn't automatically stopped it. If it had been binding, there wouldn't have been any choice about cancelling the outcome and having a rerun. Isn't it odd that you wouldn't know that?

It is intentionally being ignored for the sake of calling some judges just doing their job "Remoaners".
Probably because them doing their job is a threat to the people behind the propaganda for Brexit and thus they are the enemy.

- - - Updated - - -

I must say that I find it worrisome that people now attack the institutions that are there to protect our democracy rather than the people that seek to undermine it.

Frankly, I'd question the motives of those who'd attack these institutions.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think there is any solution that is not going to result in people losing faith in UK democracy which is why I hope that the court thoroughly examines the case before them and finds that there is no case to answer. If it is found that the referendum should be declared void then it is not going to be pretty.

There is no chance for that becasue it is advisory.
The people who have organized the campains could be tried, though.

The responsibility does and always did lie with the MP, and the accountability should as well.
Allowing them to always choose some scapegoat for everything is what destroys UK demomcracy.
"The will of the people" is one such scapegoat.

[Teleros]

Says the person who embraces far right ideologies

Nazis are left-wing.

What do you mean by "like that"? Speaking with a "german accent"?

Among other things, yes. Go read a bit of PG Wodehouse and read about Roderick Spodes and his Black Shorts etc.

[Acidbaron]

Nazis are left-wing.

Not at all surprising that you know little of the political ideologies you worship blindly.

[zealo]

Nazis are left-wing.

The nazis latched onto the socialist name as a means of re-branding the word for their own far right nationalist politics, opposing actual left-wing parties in Weimar Germany, they purged both socialists and communists violently after coming to power, such as the SPD of the time.

The nazis were firmly right wing.

[Teleros]

Not at all surprising that you know little of the political ideologies you worship blindly.

Oh fine, let's do this old thing again...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ialist_Program

I'd love to hear how the following are right-wing:

• We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.
• All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
• The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:
• Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
• In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
• We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
• We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
• We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
• We demand ... immediate communalization of the great warehouses [read: department stores] and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
• We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
• The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
• For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

Oh, and let's not forget little things like gun control and all the rest. Me, I want a small state, rock solid private property rights, strong gun ownership rights, don't believe in any kind of equality, and oppose the welfare state in general - so clearly I'm just like the guys who did the above .

Like the party name suggests, the National Socialist German Workers' Party was a left-wing one. The fact that you've bought Stalin's old propaganda line that nazis and fascists are right-wing reactions to communism... well, no surprises there TBH.

It was around this time that Stalin stumbled on a brilliant tactic of simply labeling all inconvenient ideas and movements fascist. Socialists and progressives aligned with Moscow were called socialists or progressives, while socialists disloyal or opposed to Moscow were called fascists. Stalin's theory of social fascism rendered even Franklin Roosevelt a fascist according to loyal communists everywhere. And let us recall that Leon Trotsky was marked for death for allegedly plotting a "fascist coup."
...
Before the Holocaust and Stalin's doctrine of social fascism, liberals could be more honest about their fondness for fascism. During the "pragmatic" era of the 1920s and early 1930s, a host of Western liberal intellectuals and journalists were quite impressed with Mussolini's "experiment." More than a few progressives were intrigued by Nazism as well. W. E. B. DuBois, for example, had very complex and mixed emotions about the rise of Hitler and the plight of the Jews, believing that National Socialism could be the model for economic organization. The formation of the Nazi dictatorship, he wrote, had been "absolutely necessary to get the state in order." Hewing to the progressive definition of "democracy" as egalitarian statism, DuBois delivered a speech in Harlem in 1937 proclaiming that "there is today, in some respects, more democracy in Germany than there has been in years past."
-Jonah Goldberg, "Liberal Fascism"

[Acidz]

Nazis were left wing and the communists right wing.

[Mayhem]

Nazis are left-wing.

/facemountain

Among other things, yes. Go read a bit of PG Wodehouse and read about Roderick Spodes and his Black Shorts etc.

Na thanks, judging by your above statement I doubt anything you read is challenging or interesting enough for me.

[Teleros]

Your really should stop getting your history lessons from a cuntservative YT muppet.

Lol.

https://www.facinghistory.org/about-us

"Our mission is to engage students of diverse backgrounds in an examination of racism, prejudice, and antisemitism in order to promote the development of a more humane and informed citizenry."

Boy, does that reek of SJW nonsense or what? Try finding a decent source, or failing that a good argument or three, instead of just copy-pasting stuff from left-wing activist websites.

Na thanks, judging by your above statement I doubt anything you read is challenging or interesting enough for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._G._Wodehouse
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10554...-h/10554-h.htm

He's one of the funniest English language writers around, so I'd say you're definitely missing out if you don't check out his work. A lot of it's in the form of short stories too, so find a Jeeves & Wooster one online (like the one above) and see if it's to your liking.

[Mayhem]

Oh fine, let's do this old thing again...

Alright, what you got?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...ialist_Program

Oh, a party program, well, as history shows, party programs are always truethful and honest.

I'd love to hear how the following are right-wing:We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens.
All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.

Unless those citizens are homosexual, disabled or jewish.

[*]The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. Consequently we demand:

See above.

Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.

That's why they introduced real slavery?

In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

Yeah, right, no german or foreign company ever profited from war during ww2. Except such no-names like Hugo Boss, Siemens, IBM, Volkswagen, Bayer ...

We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

Also we're planing to implement a dictatorship practically giving everything to one person, you know, socialism!

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

And by division we're speaking of, between the owners and us.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

Also, we're going to kill people who are old and sick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4

We demand ... immediate communalization of the great warehouses [read: department stores] and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.

This is just authoritarian.

We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.

Again, nothing here yells socialism.

The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.

Reads great, but was nothing but indoctrination in the end, you know, fun stuff like the Hitler Jugend and no one was talking about Women, obviously.

For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.[/list]

Ended in a Dictatorship and no leader sacrificed their life for any of the points above.

Oh, and let's not forget little things like gun control and all the rest.

Little things like gun control?

Me, I want a small state, rock solid private property rights, strong gun ownership rights, don't believe in any kind of equality, and oppose the welfare state in general - so clearly I'm just like the guys who did the above .

So apart from the first three points you want what the nazis ended up with.

Like the party name suggests, the National Socialist German Workers' Party was a left-wing one. The fact that you've bought Stalin's old propaganda line that nazis and fascists are right-wing reactions to communism... well, no surprises there TBH.

Stop scrolling down to the propaganda and maybe read what is written prior to the 25-point program:
"Historian Karl Dietrich Bracher summarizes the program by saying that its components were "hardly new" and that "German, Austrian, and Bohemian proponents of anti-capitalist, nationalist-imperialist, anti-Semitic movements were resorted to in its compilation," but that a call to "breaking the shackles of finance capital" was added in deference to the idee fixe of Gottfried Feder, one of the party's founding members, and Hitler provided the militancy of the stance against the Treaty of Versailles, and the insistence that the points could not be changed, and were to be the permanent foundation of the party. Bracher characterizes the points as being "phrased like slogans; they lent themselves to the concise sensational dissemination of the 'anti' position on which the party thrived. ... Ideologically speaking, [the program] was a wooly, eclectic mixture of political, social, racist, national-imperialist wishful thinking..."[2]

According to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, the 25-point program "remained the party's official statement of goals, though in later years many points were ignored.""

I highlighted the parts that aren't all that social so you understand it easier.

[Mekh]

Something in your post is badly breaking the forum software, @Mayhem . Content is good though.