[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[dribbles]

Nigel is an idiot

1) Any short extension will most likely not go beyond 22nd of May. EU parliament elections are the 23rd. No one wants the election to be shadowed by internal incompetence in the UK. Say the extension is beyond the 22nd, then the UK needs to vote aswell, if they aren’t allowed to, the EU parliament elections might be cancelled due to not letting a member country vote. Yet the UK parliament seats have been spread out to other members who needs to vote for those seats.

2) Any short extension needs to be presented with a viable plan, the EU is sick of dealing with internal issues of the UK.

3) this may very well end with a long extension/revoking A50. If a short extension is declined and the uk parliament voted no to a hard brexit, a long extension/revoking A50 is the only choice. Meaning the EU might as well decline a short extension.


The ignorants like Dribbles lost hard today and canceling brexit is far more likely than it was last week.

Don't be so silly, we have lost nothing today. The law still stands that we leave on March 29th deal or no deal. Nothing has changed other than a somewhat interesting advisory only vote or two. What has been missed amongst the noise of all this is that Farage has supposedly secured a veto on any eu extension offer by Salvini in Italy and as we type Tory brexiteer MP's are promising allsorts to Poland if they veto it too. France and Spain are uncertain as well.

When the vote to ask for an extension passes tomorrow in the house there is no certainty whatsoever that the EU will unanimously agree to offer it when requested. Especially as UK brexiteer politicians and others are quietly bribing left right and centre against an extension all across the EU right now...

[ati87]

That's "request a short extension to plan for no deal, offer to pay for one year transition, go for no deal immediately afterwards" - completely idiotic in every way from the moment it was conceived and something the EU would never, ever agree to.


Good for them, who else cares?

The current PM and probably the future PM.

[Crispin]

And when the extension is denied there’s two options. Hard brexit or revoking A50. Today’s vote showed that the majority rejects a hard brexit. Connect the dots.

[Kronik85]

I'm not so sure. May definitely wants parliament to take control so the blame can be placed on their collective heads and not just Con party. I don't think any PM would rescind A50 and then call a GE as it would likely see their party destroyed in the election.

With regard to a 2nd ref I think she was banking on her deal being defeated and Lab then tabling a motion for one for remain and her deal (if remain won she would be able to blame Lab for taking Brexit away from the people and if her deal passed she would be proved right) but this has not happened.

I did mention that the "what should happen" part of my post required a PM with integrity. We don't have that. You hit the nail on th head when you described her strategy to avoid blame, which unfortunately is the position of the rest of The House too.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Lightweights. The lot of them.

[Pann]

And when the extension is denied there’s two options. Hard brexit or revoking A50. Today’s vote showed that the majority rejects a hard brexit. Connect the dots.

Voting in non-binding amendment against no-deal is a very different prospect to voting to rescind A50.

[Crispin]

They reject a hard brexit in a non-binding vote does not mean they have the stones to revoke A50

Not sure why you keep repeating that it was non-binding. That part was obvious. The majority realises that it’ll be more devastating with a hard brexit.

I’m not saying A50 is revoked. But with Brexiteers lobbying for vetos against extension, that might be the only 2 options on the table.

[Pann]

I did mention that the "what should happen" part of my post required a PM with integrity. We don't have that. You hit the nail on th head when you described her strategy to avoid blame, which unfortunately is the position of the rest of The House too.

I said it before, I'll say it again. Lightweights. The lot of them.

The problem being with that is that many people still want Brexit therefore I cannot see any PM, past or present, taking that course of action (granted many of our past PMs would not have got themselves in this position in the first place).

No disagreement on that one from me.

[Crispin]

But I do want to add that the lobbying for vetos against an extension is pathetic, why on earth would any eu country support something that potentially would hurt their economy. Brexiteers are delusional.

[Kronik85]

The problem being with that is that many people still want Brexit therefore I cannot see any PM, past or present, taking that course of action (granted many of our past PMs would not have got themselves in this position in the first place).

No disagreement on that one from me.

It's difficult to pull an analogue since this crisis is unique but other PMs have resigned over less. Even The Pig Fucker managed some level of decorum when he resigned after losing. A PM, any PM knows that at this point they could rescind A50 saying they couldn't inflict such massive damage to the UK without a clear majority in Parliament and from the people then shield our democracy by sacrificing themselves.

Will this happen? No of course not.

Edit:. Eden and the Suez Crisis maybe? As the closest analogue. May has acted almost unilaterally in trying to force her deal through and she's wasted near 4 months in what can be best described as contempt of parliament.

[dribbles]

Not sure why you keep repeating that it was non-binding. That part was obvious. The majority realises that it’ll be more devastating with a hard brexit.

I’m not saying A50 is revoked. But with Brexiteers lobbying for vetos against extension, that might be the only 2 options on the table.

Glad you are agreeing with me and many others that the only way to stop no deal is to revoke Article 50. And our parliament don't have the minerals to do that...all they can do is piss about with advisories as shown today...

All on course for that sweet sweet no deal Brexit on March 29th, steady as she goes.... Tick tock.

[Pann]

It's difficult to pull an analogue since this crisis is unique but other PMs have resigned over less. Even The Pig Fucker managed some level of decorum when he resigned after losing. A PM, any PM knows that at this point they could rescind A50 saying they couldn't inflict such massive damage to the UK without a clear majority in Parliament and from the people then shield our democracy by sacrificing themselves.

Will this happen? No of course not.

True, but most resignations have been to limit damage to their party rescinding A50 would be political suicide. May's resignation wouldn't actually solve the problem and doing so after rescinding A50 would most likely only serve to exacerbate leave voters' concerns.

[Dizzeeyooo]

The current PM

I'll repeat, good for them, who else cares?

and probably the future PM

Lets see how long they manage to last in that situation

[Pann]

May has acted almost unilaterally in trying to force her deal through and she's wasted near 4 months in what can be best described as contempt of parliament.

Putting aside feelings about May, what else could she do? It's taken almost two years to agree this deal with the EU and with the clock ticking there is no consensus within parliament as to what they want to take its place.

[Pann]

So the final tally is not 312-308 but 321-278? That seems a far more comfortable majority.

The first vote was to allow the amendment, ruling out no-deal at anytime not just March 29th, to the second vote. It was quite confusing.

- - - Updated - - -

Plus the EU is clear this is the only deal available. May dares only mention Remain as a threat, never as an option and I frankly do not see that changing.

Indeed. I think the EU could be receptive to a sensible alternative but parliament is too busy telling everyone what they don't want instead of trying to come up with an alternative.

[Kronik85]

True, but most resignations have been to limit damage to their party rescinding A50 would be political suicide. May's resignation wouldn't actually solve the problem and doing so after rescinding A50 would most likely only serve to exacerbate leave voters' concerns.

I'm not touting human sacrifice as a silver bullet to our situation but if we are being real about this then no one is walking out of this happy. If we do have Brexit then 48% of the country will lose their shit, if we don't then 52% will do the same. No matter which way this cookie crumbles faith in our political class has been completely wiped out and it's getting a drubbing either way.

If a PM was to essentially offer themselves up to draw a line under this though then that might just be the beginnings of a very project in restoring faith in our Parliament.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Putting aside feelings about May, what else could she do?

Change her red lines?

[Crispin]

Glad you are agreeing with me and many others that the only way to stop no deal is to revoke Article 50. And our parliament don't have the minerals to do that...all they can do is piss about with advisories as shown today...

All on course for that sweet sweet no deal Brexit on March 29th, steady as she goes.... Tick tock.

Looking forward to your silly excuses in April ;-) 29th march is not happening.

BTW did you dig up the imaginary links to EUs recession (depression) ?

[Machismo]

I'm guessing the Brexiteers aren't very happy right now.

[Pann]

I'm not touting human sacrifice as a silver bullet to our situation but if we are being real about this then no one is walking out of this happy. If we do have Brexit then 48% of the country will lose their shit, if we don't then 52% will do the same. No matter which way this cookie crumbles faith in our political class has been completely wiped out and it's getting a drubbing either way.

If a PM was to essentially offer themselves up to draw a line under this though then that might just be the beginnings of a very project in restoring faith in our Parliament.

I think it would make the matter worse. The divisions can't be healed by ignoring those who voted leave - they need to brought around to the idea of remaining.

[Kronik85]

Putting aside feelings about May, what else could she do? It's taken almost two years to agree this deal with the EU and with the clock ticking there is no consensus within parliament as to what they want to take its place.

Work with Parliament where the majority actually was rather than trying to court the ERG who have done nothing but act in bad faith. You say there was no consensus in parliament but it's been pretty obvious from day 1 that they would accept a Customs Union type thing. I know you're trying to point me away from railing on May but who's idea was the Red Lines?

The moment she set up her stall with those because she believed that's what Brexit must obviously mean then negotiation was done from the get go.